Israel's actions

[Michlo]

The problem with this is Hamas blocking every effort, and Zionist settlers fanning flames. The more level headed Fathah and Kadima parties were making progress.

Sadly, Likud seems to be making a comeback (thanks to Hamas' aggression), and the skullduggery has already begun in preparation for Ehud Olmert's downfall.

It's a bit of a see-saw isn't it?

Which is why I can understand you not being partial to any side of this conflict.

 

In any case, the see-saw aspect of this might mean that it won't end until the universe crunches.

 

 

Or until, as I said earlier, one side is wiped out. :(

[Zephyr2011]

On Monday I am sooooo telling my Social Studies teacher about this thread rofl, he's followed everything politics for the past 20 years, he'd LOVE this. Oh and I'll probobly tell my Grammar teacher to, lol she'd flame everyone who had crappy supportive reasons on this thread rofl (we're going over "Effective Debates" not exactly grammar but eh lol).

 

I really think the whole "Israel blows everything out of proportion" crap that's been pretty much the basis of the whole anti-Israel argument is a load of bull s#%t I mean comon, terrorists attack Russia what happens? First class kick in the pants. Terrorists attack China? First class kick in the pants. Terrorists attack any mojor country, guess what? FIRST CLASS KICK IN THE PANTS!!! (or in the case of US while Bush was president, an ATTEMPTED first class kick in the pants [albiet with some funky targets, considering we invaded iraq and afghanistan instead of Saudi-Arabia which is where the terrorists initiated 9/11 from]) So seriously, why is it any different with Israel? Because Hammas is basically a bunch of Palistinians and the Palistinians and Israelites have been at eachother's throats for centuries? Explain, really, I'm all ears (eyes really considering it's text but you get the point).

[Callighan]

That's an oversimplification of things.

 

A time when terrorists happen without first class kick in the pants is the era when the Irgun and Lehi were considered terrorist organisations by the British.

 

If zionist "terrorism" worked in establishing Israel, its reasonable for Palestinians to think that the same can work for their cause.

[Zephyr2011]

Over simplification maybe, but honestly, if Zionists used terrorism and managed to establish Israel, I don't call that terrorism I call it conquest, or atleast war. If the US launched a rocket at Russia then boom war, (and thus M.A.D. would probobly happen but anywho...). Then this is a war, even if on an odd scale, has no one heard of Total War? Kind of what WWs I and II were, involving entire nations not just the military, occasionally civilians are targets (which Hammas seems to do) or are injured/killed in attacks, Israel HAS warned civilians of impending bombings in Gaza. My previous analysis may be an oversimplification of things but it isn't all that far from the truth of the matter, everyone seems to think the reason this ENTIRE conflict is occurring now is due to Israel wanting to wipe all Palestinians off the map, no one thinks hey, Hammas is shooting rockets, they fired during a ceasefire. I believe that Israel has every right to stop the rocket attacks, HOWEVER if they continue to bomb and invade the Gaza strip AFTER the attacks have stopped THEN they are wicked, but their current fight is perfectly justified by Hammas's actions. Even if there IS a past history do you honestly believe that they should just sit there and take missile fire on a daily basis and do NOTHING? You can't say that they could try diplomacy, because they HAVE and Hammas broke the ceasefire and started firing again, so they won't stop attacks for peacetalks, I mean seriously, THINK.

[Callighan]

If Zionists used terrorism and managed to establish Israel, I don't call that terrorism I call it conquest, or atleast war.

It was terrorism in the 1930s up to 1947, prior to the UN partition plan and the founding of Israel. Afterwards, it was war. A war which admittedly, the Arabs lost. This resulted in the displacement of Palestinian Arabs from their homes. This is a root of the current conflict.

 

no one thinks hey, Hammas is shooting rockets, they fired during a ceasefire. I believe that Israel has every right to stop the rocket attacks, HOWEVER if they continue to bomb and invade the Gaza strip AFTER the attacks have stopped THEN they are wicked, but their current fight is perfectly justified by Hammas's actions.

I don't disagree with you. Simple cause and effect relationship shows that HAMAS did incur for this to happen.

 

everyone seems to think the reason this ENTIRE conflict is occurring now is due to Israel wanting to wipe all Palestinians off the map

Well, I believe the bigger plan is like such. Have you seen the current map of the region?

There are permanent Israeli settlements in the Palestinian West Bank connected to each other via intercutting Israeli-made and secured roads.

 

Now given the fact that terrorism was used to usher the zionist cause in the 1930s, I think it's also understandable that Palestinians and HAMAS continue using terroristic attacks on Israelis.

 

As I've said in a previous post, there are justifications for both sides. It's only up to each of us to personally view whether one side deserves more than the other. And I don't think it's quite useful to persuade another to see whether this or that side is more justified.

 

I say, divulge the facts and discuss what happened in order to create a deeper understanding of this matter.

[Ethre]

Well, I believe the bigger plan is like such. Have you seen the current map of the region?

That's an interesting comment, given the recent election results. However, it would seem to be contradicted by the repeated "land for peace" attempts.

Its also pretty common practice to want to secure your routes of transportation. The same reason the Panama Canal was an army base for years - not that there was a particular desire for jungle land, but rather to protect and control the canal itself.

 

Now given the fact that terrorism was used to usher the zionist cause in the 1930s, I think it's also understandable that Palestinians and HAMAS continue using terroristic attacks on Israelis.

 

I don't think you can argue that one caused the other - I think its more of a practical matter. It is easier to keep fighting as a terrorist than it is to actually fight on the field - where very likely they would be exterminated. No matter what their propaganda may say, or what they may indoctrinate into some of their men, I don't think many of them really want to die for their cause. I'm not saying they aren't willing, but I think many would rather "live to fight another day".

[dragonpen61]

The Israeli and Palestine conflict comes on the back of a very long history of hate and conflict but it can also be seen as being driven by fear as both the Palestinians see a future that is possibly grim for them. Actual violence is also driven by the extremists on both sides as moderates on both sides would rather see peace and some hope (perhaps too optimistically) for friendship one day. By their very nature such as Hamas and Zionists, who rose on the backs of past horrors and rage along with the foundation of creating and keeping a homeland at any cost in basically the same territories, are going to find it hard to even find a true common ground to meaningful negotiations.

 

The Israelis are in a strong position but constantly find the need to use force (far too much as far as I am concerned but I can also see their desire to live with out terrorism from extreme Islamic groups who will not even accept that Israel has a right to exist.) and also rely on a large amount of American support. Only a massive sudden input of equipment and supplies saved the Israelis during one of their successful wars against the Arabs. What happens if the USA can no longer support them the way it has done, is doing today? Will Israel become desperate and carry out desperate actions? Israel has a hidden arsenal of nuclear weapons buried beneath the desert. Will it use them if driven into a corner?

 

The Middle East is a powder keg ready to go off.

 

I hope a positive solution is found to the Israeli Palestinian problem and that Obama can be part of that answer before anything terrible happens that will profoundly effect the whole world.

[Michlo]

I read yesterday that the US is considering sending $900 million to the Gaza.

 

*boggle*

 

I thought that we were broke? Why the hell are we doing this? Why isn't Israel paying it? They've had billions from us so they can certainly afford it.

 

*sigh* What a world.

[sumoftwosins]

Israel has my blessing.

 

We should first worry about our own problems. Not those of someone else.

[dragonpen61]

Our problems are all linked together. What happens in the Middle East will effect us all. We can't afford to ignore it or to try to make it somebody else's problem. The world gets smaller with every passing day.

 

Love the :banana: