Israel's actions

[PrideAssassin]

The difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas fires indiscriminately, while Israel actively tries to avoid civillian casualties, going so far as to warn them in advance.

As much as I dislike the Jews, at least they are prosecuting with honor.

Maan News Agency:

But well before the current fighting, the UN says it had given Israeli authorities the GPS coordinates of all its installations in Gaza, including the United Nations Relief and Works Agency school, which was struck by an Israeli missile on Monday.

 

Prof karen Pfeifer (The Middle East Research and Information Project, USA):

Many of the (Israeli) occupants of the settlements; their founders and people who live there today are very aggressive towards palestinians they go around fully armed, submachine guns, they carry grenades, and they frequently threaten Palestinians.

 

:

In Hebron, settlers initiated more clashes. They say they're tired of coming under attack. But their communities are illegal under International Law...They set fire to Palestinian fields, smashed cars, and vandalized shops, and all this under what is being called officially a Cease-Fire...Settlers have vowed to intensify protests against the cease-fire, they want Ariel Sharon to hit back. Some of them have already carried out their own vigilante attacks on Arab villages.

 

The settlers are mainly ultra-Orthadox extremists who defy their government and have, on occasion, been forcibly removed by Israel. Nice misdirection, but the actions of extremist settlers do not reflect upon Israeli policy in any way.

 

As far as the illegitimate UN installation: good riddance, for one. Number two, accidents happen. Oops.

 

I like how you answer my assertion by pointing to things which have no bearing on anything I was saying though. Rogue elements of Israeli society and an errant missile do not a genocide make.

 

Meh, like I said, nuke 'em all.

[Callighan]

I think you're missing the link here.

You said that the Israelis are prosecuting with honor.

And so I found that they don't.

 

It's quite systematic. As michlo has pointed out in the map.

 

As for the UN installations, Israel officially declared them safe from attacks prior to bombing them.

[Slyvena1]

Neither side is willing to forgive the others for the wrongs they have BOTH done to each other.

 

Both seek revenge.

 

There will be no end as both sides see the other as the instigator and the criminal, and themselves as the valiant defenders.

 

I don't think there will be a resolution for many... many years.

[PrideAssassin]

I think you're missing the link here.

You said that the Israelis are prosecuting with honor.

And so I found that they don't.

 

It's quite systematic. As michlo has pointed out in the map.

 

As for the UN installations, Israel officially declared them safe from attacks prior to bombing them.

 

Maybe in your little bizzaro world, aye?

You found info on extremeist militant settlers, who the Israeli govt. actively tries to reign in. You did not find anything to dispute my assertion that the Israeli govt. is attempting (and succeeding) to prosecute the incursion honorably.

 

For your other point, as I've said, accidents happen. Combat is chaotic. It was 1 (one, singular) installation. Not installations. (plural)

 

Since "links" are the only thing you seem to understand:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mi...ers-503320.html

 

http://news.theage.com.au/world/israel-des...81104-5h6d.html

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6934445.stm

 

http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=1&id=2396

[Callighan]

Maybe in your little bizzaro world, aye?

You found info on extremeist militant settlers, who the Israeli govt. actively tries to reign in. You did not find anything to dispute my assertion that the Israeli govt. is attempting (and succeeding) to prosecute the incursion honorably.

 

For your other point, as I've said, accidents happen. Combat is chaotic.

What is honorable prosecution, then?

 

The difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas fires indiscriminately, while Israel actively tries to avoid civillian casualties, going so far as to warn them in advance.

As much as I dislike the Jews, at least they are prosecuting with honor.

 

BBC News:

At least 40 people were killed and 55 injured when Israeli artillery shells landed outside a United Nations-run school in Gaza, UN officials have said.

 

Al Jazeera:

John Ging, director of operations in Gaza for Unrwa, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, said three artillery shells landed near the school where 350 people were taking shelter.

 

Ging said Unrwa regularly provided the Israeli army with exact geographical co-ordinates of its facilities and the school was in a built-up area.

 

In addition, the humanitarian situation in Gaza – already poor following the 18-month Israeli blockade of the strip that left the territory desperately short of fuel, food and medical supplies – is worsening.

 

...

 

Two residents of the area near UN school that was shelled by the IDF on Tuesday said that they had seen a small group of terrorists firing mortar rounds from a street close to the school. The two spoke with The Associated Press by telephone on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal.

 

AP:

 

Israel’s military said its shelling — the deadliest single episode since Israeli ground forces invaded Gaza Saturday — was a response to mortar fire from within the school and said Hamas militants were using civilians as cover.

 

Two residents of the area who spoke by telephone said they saw a small group of militants firing mortar rounds from a street near the school, where 350 people had gathered to get away from the shelling. They spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal.

 

Mortars are not stationary artillery, a PU dropping off the mortARS doesn’t make the school a base.

 

UKTimesOnline:

 

Israeli mortar rounds blasted a United Nations-run school that had been converted into a refugee shelter for hundreds of Palestinians displaced by the ten-day war in Gaza, killing more than 40 people.

 

It was one of three UN schools hit by Israeli ordnance yesterday. The strike against the Fakhora school in the northern town of Jabaliya was the deadliest single attack of an already blood-soaked offensive.

...

 

Sky News:

Speaking from Jerusalem, Oxfam worker John Prideaux-Brune told Sky News: "All the information we are getting is clearly showing there is a real humanitarian crisis going on in Gaza right now.

 

"We have people with no food, no water, no electricity, no heating in the middle of winter.

 

"Numerous people have had to leave their homes because they have been destroyed or are too badly damaged to live in."

 

Mr Prideaux-Brune also spoke of the difficulty of getting medical aid to those in need after ambulances have become caught up during air strikes.

 

...

 

Hague Convention II:

 

Article 25

 

The attack or bombardment of towns, villages, habitations or buildings which are not defended, is prohibited.

 

 

Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949:

 

Art. 17. The Parties to the conflict shall endeavour to conclude local agreements for the removal from besieged or encircled areas, of wounded, sick, infirm, and aged persons, children and maternity cases, and for the passage of ministers of all religions, medical personnel and medical equipment on their way to such areas.

 

Art. 55. To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the Occupying Power has the duty of ensuring the food and medical supplies of the population; it should, in particular, bring in the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate.

 

The conventions are regarded as jus cogens, peremptory norms of international law. If any words could give any bearing to what is honourable, then these articles are, by law norms of honor and basic humanities.

 

The simple math of death toll exceeding 600 dead is by no measure honorable. If such a death toll is a result of an accident, it places IDF battlefield codes of conduct into question. This would be a case for court martial.

 

Furthermore, this is not a persecution for incursions. If you would take a second or two to look at the map, you would see that Israel has occupied a greater part of Palestine. Whatever acts that were labeled as such, were efforts-however slight to regain lost homes, farms, and neighbourhoods demolished and segregated by settlements and illegal cross boundary roads.

 

In Bizzaro world, we look at the bigger picture.

 

And to end this, I quote a comment from a Poligazette reader:

 

CS The Gaza situation is similar to Northern Ireland. Peace came about when the militant wings of Sinn Fein and the IRA were removed from the political wing of Sinn Fein. The same needs to happen in Gaza, not a military cleansing. It took 70 years for peace in Northern Ireland, with the militants in the IRA running wild from 1960 to the Good Friday Agreement of 10 April 1998.

[PrideAssassin]

Mortar fire is picked up by radar, pinpointed, and eliminated. In some cases by automated systems. Either way, they brought it on themselves.

lrn2tactics

 

 

"Hague Convention II:

 

Article 25

 

The attack or bombardment of towns, villages, habitations or buildings which are not defended, is prohibited. "

 

Seeing as how an offensive was being launched from the area, it was "defended".

 

 

"Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949:

 

Art. 17. The Parties to the conflict shall endeavour to conclude local agreements for the removal from besieged or encircled areas, of wounded, sick, infirm, and aged persons, children and maternity cases, and for the passage of ministers of all religions, medical personnel and medical equipment on their way to such areas."

 

Which they have attempted to see to.

 

"Art. 55. To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the Occupying Power has the duty of ensuring the food and medical supplies of the population; it should, in particular, bring in the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate."

 

Which is why Israel recently allowed an ambulance, food, fuel, and medical supplies through.

 

"The conventions are regarded as jus cogens, peremptory norms of international law. If any words could give any bearing to what is honourable, then these articles are, by law norms of honor and basic humanities."

 

No. Those conventions are signs of weakness. Applying Law to violence is silly.

 

"The simple math of death toll exceeding 600 dead is by no measure honorable."

 

Sure it is.

 

"If such a death toll is a result of an accident, it places IDF battlefield codes of conduct into question."

 

Look here, once again, in case you missed it the first two or three times. The UN incident was an accident. The rest is quite deliberate.

 

Hamas is like an irritating runt with a severe learning disability sitting behind you in class flicking your ear. You tell him over and over again to knock it off. You make a threat, because really, beating on such an invalid would make you feel bad. Yet he persists. Then, one day, you say to yourself, "You know what, you little turkey, I'm gonna teach you a lesson." Then you proceed to kick the poo out of him.

Of course, there's that learning disability, so chances are, history's gonna repeat it's self...

[Michlo]

I would recommend no further responses to the so-called PrideAssassin.

 

At this point he is clearly trolling to stir up trouble and / or has no concern for anybody or their feelings (especially including all the people who have died in this atrocity).

 

Since I opened this topic with "who else is sick of Israel" he clearly has no reason to even be in this thread.

[Callighan]

I would recommend no further responses to the so-called PrideAssassin.

 

At this point he is clearly trolling to stir up trouble and / or has no concern for anybody or their feelings (especially including all the people who have died in this atrocity).

 

Since I opened this topic with "who else is sick of Israel" he clearly has no reason to even be in this thread.

I agree.

No. Those conventions are signs of weakness. Applying Law to violence is silly.

When such is a reply to a discussion, you know you're talking to a silly person.

[macmert]

Indeed. Linspuppy, thanks for that intelligent post before. It would do many people well to learn more about both Islam and Judaism.

 

8 million Russians died in that war. They do not portray themselves as victims.

Really? That can't possibly be because they were part of a gigantic military force, right? As opposed to, you know, German citizens being persecuted and killed by their own government.

 

Not to say the deaths of the Soviets was not also a horrid thing..and then they faced extermination by their own government also...but I also do not view the Holocaust the same as the Soviet deaths as it was military or civilian deaths at military occupation at the time.

 

Thank you and I hope that others will take a greater interest in looking beyond the surface of these matters.

3.3 million Soviets died in Nazi camps. Almost 11 million died in action. Tens of millions were killed by Uncle Joe. You know, persecuted and killed by their own government. They aren't crying about it. They have MOVED ON.

 

The difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas fires indiscriminately, while Israel actively tries to avoid civillian casualties, going so far as to warn them in advance.

As much as I dislike the Jews, at least they are prosecuting with honor.

 

I dont think you know the meaning of honor...

[PrideAssassin]

I would recommend no further responses to the so-called PrideAssassin.

 

At this point he is clearly trolling to stir up trouble and / or has no concern for anybody or their feelings (especially including all the people who have died in this atrocity).

 

Since I opened this topic with "who else is sick of Israel" he clearly has no reason to even be in this thread.

I agree.

No. Those conventions are signs of weakness. Applying Law to violence is silly.

When such is a reply to a discussion, you know you're talking to a silly person.

 

That's just my personal opinion. I can see the intent behind it. It doesn't make it any less silly, however.

 

Michlo, sir, I present to you the sad fact that people who have died on both sides of this idiot loop of "my wang's bigger than yours" no longer possess feelings for me to be concerned about.

Since you opened the topic "Israel's actions, Who else has had enough of them?" in the Debate section, I do believe I should be able to debate your belief. If you wanted a hug fest, feel good, let's all get along and agree discussion, it should have been posted elsewhere, no?

I'm a fairly blunt person. Nothing personal. =)

 

I dont think you know the meaning of honor...

 

Off topic, certainly. A tiny flame. No problem. You base your opinion on what, exactly? Please, be specific. Feel free to contact me @ [email protected] Now, back to the topic at hand.