enkephalin07 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 After studying the new construction kit for awhile, I gotta say I'm really pretty unimpressed with this. Maybe I'm spoiled by UnrealEd and WorldCraft, but I can't believe professionals used anything like this to develop a game. It's an inflexible hunk of crap that doesn't even support standard Windows Toolkit functionality. And it sure hasn't come a long way from Morrowind's TES, which I ranted about back then, in fact many of the new features only underline the shortsightedness of the original, without doing much to rectify the resulting flaws. I get the impression the specifications were for the sake of non-programmers, implemented by programmers who apathetically designed it to limit the amount of damage non-programmers could do. 'Entry Points'? Why not make the game engine's functions and variables transparent and accessible to the application in the first damn place? Did they use the unskilled for this in an effort to save money? If so, this backfired on them, because this looks like it was done in a way to create more work for the programmers in creating it, and more work for the users. Now you've got multiple redundant ways to do the same thing, thus ensuring some jackasses the ability to select the least appropriate method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genovauk Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Shouldn't this be in the general forum or something, not really talking about modification rather than complaining about the tools to create modifications, Can't you just be happy they released some form off tool-set rather than complain about it ? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enkephalin07 Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 The answers are no and no. Can you think of why, or do I need to do your thinking for you, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedyB64 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 All you are doing is throwing crap around. This forum is for discussing mod creation not complaining about the editor that we are lucky to have at all. Most games have no public editor so we are glad with the one we got, is it perfect no are there better editors yes, but without it we wouldn't get far. Be thankful for what you have and complain somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enkephalin07 Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 'Lucky' describes what Bethesda is to have a modding community to finish their job for them, so a little rant on the quality of the tools they release for it is justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsugar Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 As much as it pains me to say this, the problem is not the software, but more so the lack of a thorough manual to go along with it. If you tinker around with it for long enough, you'll find it can be a very nice sdk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enkephalin07 Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 I tinkered with it enough to make a mod for Morrowind, and I got less pleasure from working on the mod than completing it. I can see a lot of the same frustrating limitations, and I can see I'm looking forward to more days of headpounding and screaming 'why?' at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genovauk Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Iv'e seem modders do some amazing things with the editor, some of them yes have used the script extender to add more functions etc, but if we still wanna talk about the editor here the only real drawback to it for me personally is the kit concept for building interiors and exterior buildings etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enkephalin07 Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 There are a lot of amazing things that will never be done, because for all the needlessly backbreaking effort of implementing it you'll have results that grind unplayably slow. The game db is already so full of needless and redundant data creating a processing overhead that grinds performance, flags that are never checked, slots for data entry that either never get used, or there's an identical slot on an associated item. At the same time you never get access to read and modify the most pertinent properties during run-time. Script extenders get around this somewhat, but if they'd designed tighter in the first place, they would've had an application that would've been easier to create, easier to expand, easier to troubleshoot and easier to develop with. This wasn't made by programmers who sat down and planned it out, it was made by programmers who had non-programmers tugging on their sleeves, saying, "Hey, I don't know poo, but I know I want to do this thing," to which the programmers rolled their eyes and said, "Okay, here's your quick fix for you." And seeing how these were used really makes me wince, just the lack of consistency, and almost uniformly shoddy workmanship; multiple factions that are never used or needed, NPCs created as a base template and then all the data is manually replicated in the NPCs that use them! Globals created to keep track of one minor event, and quest scripts that do nothing but hold variables for an extended quest! Lists of variables where one would do, and scripts that do nothing but set a flag that could as easily have been done in dialog! Scripts copied into multiple dialog results to run the same thing from god-knows-how-many-places! And this doesn't just create overhead in the end result, it makes it unnecessarily difficult to track down where things are done, and impossible to even make intelligent predictions! Did the people who use this thing even talk to each other?! Because it seems they left shify foundations for each other, much less any third party modders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deliverance6 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 There are a lot of amazing things that will never be done, because for all the needlessly backbreaking effort of implementing it you'll have results that grind unplayably slow. DAMN RIGHT! and yes, i do agree that the Fallout CS is severly lacking next to WorldCraft (back in the day of Halflife 1 and Quake) and UnrealED.... although i personally HATE unreal ed with such a passion its untrue.. out of all the user friendly SDK's the GECK wins hands down for sheer useablility and ease of creation, but the effort and knowledge it requires to create somthing useable, and also the total lack of proper accompanying tools is ridiculous.... ie, AN INDUSTRY QUALITY NIF EXPORTER! PROPER NIF EDITOR...FORM GENERATOR AS BETHSOFT USED...oh and HEIGHTMAPPING IMPORTER THAT WORKS all of which they promised would be released after the Oblivion CS.... and its 4 years still waiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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