Firedemon72 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 i thought i had finally figured out how to run new vegas well, but then i decided to attempt to complete the quest "still in the dark", so i headed to black mountain for the last paladin i needed to find. everything was running smoothly. i talked to neil without any performance hits, and he went off to do his thing. but as i was moving towards the quest marker, i got attacked by a group of maybe 4? 6? super mutants, all with miniguns and flamers. this is when the performance started to tank. I killed them with relatively little trouble thanks to the prototype stealth armor, ed-e, and the mysterious magnum, but i kept freezing as i went to retrieve the dead paladin's holotape. it wasn't too bad at first, but it got much much worse as i continued playing. I tried restarting, loading an earlier save, and disabling and enabling mods, but nothing works. the game that i had zero issues with until now, is now unplayable. is the save just permanently f*cked? any advice would be more than welcome. thank you. Relevant Information: i've run the 4gb patch, and use new vegas heap replacer. vortex mod manager is also freezing repeatedly, though idk if it's related since it's a separate program from the game itself NVSE Plugins: JIP LNOneTweakEnhanced CameralStewieAl's TweaksNew Vegas Tick Fix Load Order: FalloutNV.esm HonestHearts.esm OldWorldBlues.esm LonesomeRoad.esm GunRunnersArsenal.esm ClassicPack.esm MercenaryPack.esm TribalPack.esm CaravanPack.esm YUP - Base Game + All DLC.esm CompanionInfAmmo.esm IWR.esm YUP - NPC Fixes (Base Game + All DLC).esp PerkEveryLevel.esp Digital_Nightmare.esp WeaponModsExpanded.esp WMX-DLCMerged.esp WMX-POPMerged.esp Project Reality Footsteps.esp Cheaper Repair Vendoes 10%.esp Casino Crowds.esp IWR - Rebuilt.esp CAGE 1.9.3.2.esp ImmersiveHealthNV.esp Improved Weapons Durability.esp dD - Enhanced Blood Main NV.esp Easy Hacking.esp Titans of The New West.esp KillableKids.esp Vanilla UI Plus.esp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubiousintent Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 You should always start troubleshooting from any error messages you can see. (They are your best "clue"; and why they exist at all.) We don't expect you to be able to interpret those messages, but reporting such accurately and in detail (i.e. screenshots) is an essential first step.Anytime the game "Crashes to the Desktop" (CTD) it's typically going to generate an error message in the Windows Eventlog because both the game engine and Windows itself was not able to predictably handle the error. Please see the "Windows Error Messages" section of the wiki "How to read most Bethesda game error logs" article. These errors need to be dealt with first.Logs generated by the game itself (not Windows) are found in the game folder, where the "FalloutNV.EXE" file is located. They generally have the ".log" file extension, or a filename with "_log" in the name and a ".txt" extension. * The game has "memory leaks", primarily linked to the audio system due to the version of the Ogg Vorbis Libraries used by Bethesda. Getting 2-3 hours before a CTD is pretty good. The audio problem is fixed by using the updated "Ogg Vorbis Libraries" posted by Kane Wright. You might also want to try using the tool "CleanMem", which periodically (you can set the interval; default is every 15 minutes) tells the OS to perform it's built-in "clean up" of memory. It has a "mini-monitor" that displays memory usage. Doesn't seem to hurt and might help.* If you are using the full 4GB of memory, most likely your CTD problem (now or in the future) is the default "heap size" is too small. (What size did you set NVHR to?) It's so common you might as well deal with it now. Please see the 'Issue: CTD without warning, "Out of Memory error", or stops responding after the Main Menu') entry in the 'Solutions to "Crash To Desktop" (CTD) problems' section in the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide.* You can also get "out of memory" errors from the graphics system (which is separate from exhausting system memory), even with the game 4GB enabled. The video pipeline is known to have "memory leaks", and these occur faster with "beautification mods". Here the cause is a combination of larger image sizes ("higher resolutions", aka "hi-rez"), hi-rez texture packs for skin, hair, clothes, weapons, and landscape; along with mods that increase the number of NPCs in a given cell. (All those hi-rez texture "personal accessories" get multiplied by the number of Actors.) Please see the wiki "Display resolution versus Image Size" article. While "ENBoost" can help, you may need to switch to lower resolution/ smaller sized images or even lower quality in your game graphics configuration.The term "freeze" can be a bit ambiguous. Does it eventually let you move again on it's own (actually a "stutter"), or do you have to break out of the game or reboot to regain control? Re: Stuttering or "micro-stutters". All visual stuttering or "frame rate" problems are caused by the video stream having to wait for the "art assets" required to render the display OR the game writing something to disk (such as a save game file or logging). Mostly these are due to the hard disk drive being orders of magnitude slower than VRAM, with System RAM (e.g. "ENBoost") and "solid state drives" (SSDs) being in-between. There are and will always be situations where the higher FPS will drop as you decide to head in a direction the game did not anticipate and "pre-load" into video memory.Keep in mind that this game was designed for older PC and XBox console systems, and it is now possible for your new "latest and greatest" gaming machine to be faster than it can handle. There are internal design choices that cannot be overcome. This is especially true if you are attempting to run at a "frame rate" higher than 60FPS which can introduce unanticipated problems. (If you haven't already, try locking your video card to 60FPS for FNV.) The "video pipeline" has always been prone to problems.The following are "mitigations" that have been found to help some people.The mod FNV Mod Limit Fix has revealed that the "140 plugin limit" existed was because the game was opening 3 file handles for each plugin. The game has a hard coded limit of 512 maximum handles that could be opened at once, AND IT NEVER LETS THEM GO until it closes. (Potentially this applies to ALL files it opens.) This fix simply bumps that up to 2048 to allow for more room for file handles. This obviously has a potential impact upon any file related issues and makes it worth a try for that reason alone.Please see the following entries under the 'Solutions to Performance problems' section in the wiki Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide if you haven't already.* 'Issue: "Full screen mode" exhibits CTDs and stutters or micro-stutters'* 'Issue: Lag or "micro stutters" even with "New Vegas Stutter Remover" installed'* 'Issue: Win10 Screen tearing in "Borderless Windowed Mode"'* 'Issue: CTD without warning, "Out of Memory error", or stops responding after the Main Menu' for other settings that can indirectly affect micro-stutter.* There are also some NVSR configuration suggestions under the 'Issue: Game in slow motion' and entries. (These will not help with the "Tick Fix" alternative mod, but the author of NVSR now has a suggested configuration for Win10 linked there.)* The 'Issue: What's with these Solid Green billboard signs in the distance (LOD)?' entry under the 'Solutions to Mesh (Red "!" icon) or Texture (solid color) problems' section can also help if your problems started after you installed VWD/LOD texture packages.* If you are using CASM or some similar "auto-save" mod to manage your save game files (recommended), try increasing the "time between saves" set in the "save frequency"; and reducing the number of occasions it saves to the minimum (e.g. disable most "Autosave Events" in CASM) and see how that impacts the game seeming to freeze temporarily.* If you have "NVSE logging" enabled (see the 'Checklist Item #4' entry in the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide), disable it until actually needed.(Reading from or writing to disk for any reason is the slowest thing the game does.)The size of your image files also has an impact. Larger/higher resolution is not always "better". Please see the wiki "Display resolution versus Image Size" article.The 'Issue: What INI edits seem to be most beneficial to performance' entry of the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide) may also be some help. However, the above mitigations are more likely to have a fundamental beneficial effect with or without any INI adjustments, so consider them as the last resort.As you can see, there are a number of things that can underlie your problem. If one of these doesn't fix it, I would be interested to hear about any eventual solution that does. And anyone reading your post will be interested to hear the solution that worked for you.-Dubious- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedemon72 Posted February 26, 2021 Author Share Posted February 26, 2021 You should always start troubleshooting from any error messages you can see. (They are your best "clue"; and why they exist at all.) We don't expect you to be able to interpret those messages, but reporting such accurately and in detail (i.e. screenshots) is an essential first step. Anytime the game "Crashes to the Desktop" (CTD) it's typically going to generate an error message in the Windows Eventlog because both the game engine and Windows itself was not able to predictably handle the error. Please see the "Windows Error Messages" section of the wiki "How to read most Bethesda game error logs" article. These errors need to be dealt with first. Logs generated by the game itself (not Windows) are found in the game folder, where the "FalloutNV.EXE" file is located. They generally have the ".log" file extension, or a filename with "_log" in the name and a ".txt" extension. * The game has "memory leaks", primarily linked to the audio system due to the version of the Ogg Vorbis Libraries used by Bethesda. Getting 2-3 hours before a CTD is pretty good. The audio problem is fixed by using the updated "Ogg Vorbis Libraries" posted by Kane Wright. You might also want to try using the tool "CleanMem", which periodically (you can set the interval; default is every 15 minutes) tells the OS to perform it's built-in "clean up" of memory. It has a "mini-monitor" that displays memory usage. Doesn't seem to hurt and might help. * If you are using the full 4GB of memory, most likely your CTD problem (now or in the future) is the default "heap size" is too small. (What size did you set NVHR to?) It's so common you might as well deal with it now. Please see the 'Issue: CTD without warning, "Out of Memory error", or stops responding after the Main Menu') entry in the 'Solutions to "Crash To Desktop" (CTD) problems' section in the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide. * You can also get "out of memory" errors from the graphics system (which is separate from exhausting system memory), even with the game 4GB enabled. The video pipeline is known to have "memory leaks", and these occur faster with "beautification mods". Here the cause is a combination of larger image sizes ("higher resolutions", aka "hi-rez"), hi-rez texture packs for skin, hair, clothes, weapons, and landscape; along with mods that increase the number of NPCs in a given cell. (All those hi-rez texture "personal accessories" get multiplied by the number of Actors.) Please see the wiki "Display resolution versus Image Size" article. While "ENBoost" can help, you may need to switch to lower resolution/ smaller sized images or even lower quality in your game graphics configuration. The term "freeze" can be a bit ambiguous. Does it eventually let you move again on it's own (actually a "stutter"), or do you have to break out of the game or reboot to regain control? Re: Stuttering or "micro-stutters". All visual stuttering or "frame rate" problems are caused by the video stream having to wait for the "art assets" required to render the display OR the game writing something to disk (such as a save game file or logging). Mostly these are due to the hard disk drive being orders of magnitude slower than VRAM, with System RAM (e.g. "ENBoost") and "solid state drives" (SSDs) being in-between. There are and will always be situations where the higher FPS will drop as you decide to head in a direction the game did not anticipate and "pre-load" into video memory. Keep in mind that this game was designed for older PC and XBox console systems, and it is now possible for your new "latest and greatest" gaming machine to be faster than it can handle. There are internal design choices that cannot be overcome. This is especially true if you are attempting to run at a "frame rate" higher than 60FPS which can introduce unanticipated problems. (If you haven't already, try locking your video card to 60FPS for FNV.) The "video pipeline" has always been prone to problems. The following are "mitigations" that have been found to help some people. The mod FNV Mod Limit Fix has revealed that the "140 plugin limit" existed was because the game was opening 3 file handles for each plugin. The game has a hard coded limit of 512 maximum handles that could be opened at once, AND IT NEVER LETS THEM GO until it closes. (Potentially this applies to ALL files it opens.) This fix simply bumps that up to 2048 to allow for more room for file handles. This obviously has a potential impact upon any file related issues and makes it worth a try for that reason alone. Please see the following entries under the 'Solutions to Performance problems' section in the wiki Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide if you haven't already.* 'Issue: "Full screen mode" exhibits CTDs and stutters or micro-stutters'* 'Issue: Lag or "micro stutters" even with "New Vegas Stutter Remover" installed'* 'Issue: Win10 Screen tearing in "Borderless Windowed Mode"'* 'Issue: CTD without warning, "Out of Memory error", or stops responding after the Main Menu' for other settings that can indirectly affect micro-stutter.* There are also some NVSR configuration suggestions under the 'Issue: Game in slow motion' and entries. (These will not help with the "Tick Fix" alternative mod, but the author of NVSR now has a suggested configuration for Win10 linked there.)* The 'Issue: What's with these Solid Green billboard signs in the distance (LOD)?' entry under the 'Solutions to Mesh (Red "!" icon) or Texture (solid color) problems' section can also help if your problems started after you installed VWD/LOD texture packages.* If you are using CASM or some similar "auto-save" mod to manage your save game files (recommended), try increasing the "time between saves" set in the "save frequency"; and reducing the number of occasions it saves to the minimum (e.g. disable most "Autosave Events" in CASM) and see how that impacts the game seeming to freeze temporarily.* If you have "NVSE logging" enabled (see the 'Checklist Item #4' entry in the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide), disable it until actually needed.(Reading from or writing to disk for any reason is the slowest thing the game does.) The size of your image files also has an impact. Larger/higher resolution is not always "better". Please see the wiki "Display resolution versus Image Size" article. The 'Issue: What INI edits seem to be most beneficial to performance' entry of the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide) may also be some help. However, the above mitigations are more likely to have a fundamental beneficial effect with or without any INI adjustments, so consider them as the last resort. As you can see, there are a number of things that can underlie your problem. If one of these doesn't fix it, I would be interested to hear about any eventual solution that does. And anyone reading your post will be interested to hear the solution that worked for you. -Dubious-thanks for the reply, dubious! i'll try some of your suggestions. as for what i mean by freezing, there's long stutters, and frequent full freezes that i have to use task manager to fix. it's strange, because i was having no performance issues whatsoever until i encountered those super mutants at black mountain. i'll get back to you if i get it working again. thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedemon72 Posted February 26, 2021 Author Share Posted February 26, 2021 i found what might be the problem vortex says that my nvse plugins aren't loading correctly, but when i go into the nvse log, i find this checking plugin D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New Vegas\Data\NVSE\Plugins\\NVTF.dll plugin D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New Vegas\Data\NVSE\Plugins\\NVTF.dll (00000001 NVTF 00000009) loaded correctly checking plugin D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New Vegas\Data\NVSE\Plugins\\OneTweak.dll plugin D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New Vegas\Data\NVSE\Plugins\\OneTweak.dll (00000001 OneTweak 00000001) loaded correctlyenhanced camera loaded correctly too my guess was when i was doing a clean install a while back, i downloaded the latest version of nvse, which wasn't supported by several of my plugins. but now i'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubiousintent Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Did you get the latest "xNVSE" version? It is supposed to be backwards compatible with older versions, and some mods (like JIP LN NVSE) now require the "xNVSE" versions. But sometimes there are problems and until they are fixed you need to use an older version. Apparently from reports there has been a recent change in how xNVSE reports it's version data. I don't use Vortex, so I don't know what errors it is reporting when the NVSE log isn't. That is something you should raise on the Vortex support forum. (More than likely Vortex has not been updated to the latest mechanism by which NVSE reports it's version.) -Dubious- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedemon72 Posted February 26, 2021 Author Share Posted February 26, 2021 on a whim i installed uio. i think it improved performance slightly, but not enough to be playable. i've put so much time into this save i don't want to have to start over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubiousintent Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 NVSE is not typically associated with "stutter", and given it's log reports everything loaded correctly I would ignore the Vortex warning for the time being. However, try disabling it's "logging" capability until you need to check it again. I don't see any mods known to change Black Mountain, but it is suspicious that you are only having this problem in that cell. You may need to resort to the procedure in the 'Mod Conflict Isolation' section of the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" article. In general, if you haven't changed anything about your game and it suddenly stops working correctly you need to look to other causes: such as software updates to Windows, programming libraries such as ".Net", or hardware drivers. Older games eventually get dropped from product testing. It is also possible you are having problems with your hard drive. It never hurts to run "chkdsk" and an anti-virus scan.FYI: If you recently had a Windows system update, you only have 10 days to revert to the previous version if you decide to choose that option.You might want to review your settings for "lStewie's Tweaks" and "NVTF". A "freeze" requiring you to kill the game using the Task Manager means the game is waiting, either for something else to report it is done (such as writing a log file or playing an "audio file") or for the "next instruction". A possibility is that your disk drive has become so fragmented that it is affecting performance. Running "chkdsk" or a defragmentation program won't hurt. Try turning off any unnecessary background processes, such as "anti-virus" or "anti-malware" programs (unneeded if you are running your game in "offline" mode once you have scanned since the last connection), multiplayer "overlays" like "OverWolf" (this is single-player after all), the Steam overlay, etc., at least on a temporary basis to see if they are interfering. There are also tools (often called "Game Boosters") to help you determine "unnecessary when offline" Windows services you can temporarily shut down.It is also possible that any recent change to your mods (such as updates) or your existing "load order" (such as additions or removals) has caused a corruption of the current save game file. Try going back to a save game from before the problem started. Often starting a "new game" with a vanilla test character can help confirm if the problem lies in the current load order. -Dubious- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGamingPaladin Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 idk what it is with Black Mountain, but that place tends to cause crashes more than anywhere, cursed AF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGamingPaladin Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Load Order: FalloutNV.esm HonestHearts.esm OldWorldBlues.esm LonesomeRoad.esm GunRunnersArsenal.esm ClassicPack.esm MercenaryPack.esm TribalPack.esm CaravanPack.esm YUP - Base Game + All DLC.esm CompanionInfAmmo.esm IWR.esm YUP - NPC Fixes (Base Game + All DLC).esp PerkEveryLevel.esp Digital_Nightmare.esp WeaponModsExpanded.esp WMX-DLCMerged.esp WMX-POPMerged.esp Project Reality Footsteps.esp Cheaper Repair Vendoes 10%.esp Casino Crowds.esp IWR - Rebuilt.esp CAGE 1.9.3.2.esp ImmersiveHealthNV.esp Improved Weapons Durability.esp dD - Enhanced Blood Main NV.esp Easy Hacking.esp Titans of The New West.esp KillableKids.esp Vanilla UI Plus.esp killable kids?? that's just messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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