Techs Overhaul - R&D and a proposal

[anUser]

I'm currently into a whole overhaul of research and foundry techs, not just a rebalance of cost and order, but neither a reconversion of techs for different purpouses, just redefining the paths and tempos. My aim is to give the player more strategic choices, giving greater importance to research and actualy creating "paths of R+D" so certain technologies tie together and the player has to choose which path s/he wants to take.

 

- Tech
* Foundry Project
# Item
$ Building

Available from the beginning:
$ Workshop
$ Small Radar
$ Labs
$ Foundry

# nano-fiber vest
# scope
# SHIV
# Satellite
# Medikit
# Smoke Grenade
# Frag Grenade
# Flashbang grenade
- Alien materials [3](req. 5 weapon frag items)    >> general study of alien materials (organic, mineral, chemical properties, etc)
    - Alien Alloy [5] (weapon fragments tech) (req. 5 alloy items)    >> particular study of alien metal-like alloys (for soldiers and vehicles' armor)
        - Skeleton Suit [12]
            # Skeleton Suit
            - Ghost Armor [21]
                # Ghost Armor
        - Carapace Armor [9]
            # Carapace armor
            - Titan Armor [19]
                # Titan Armor
            - Archangel Armor [23] (CUSTOM REQUIREMENTS: req. Floater or Heavy Floater Interrogation, or Advanced Flight Proj.)
                # Archangel Armor
        * Alloy SHIV            >> prototyping alien alloy armor for vehicles
            # Alloy SHIV        >> armored vehicle using alien alloy
            - New Fighter Craft (CUSTOM REQUIREMENTS: req. UFO Power Source, Alien Nav. + Advanced Flight Proj.)
                # Firestorm
    - Elerium (reqs. elerium) [5]
        Grants Laser weapon research credits
        - UFO Power Source [7] (req. item)
            # UFO Trackling boost (req. ufo power src item)
            $ Elerium generator
            - New Fighter Craft [17] (req alien nav. comp., Alloy SHIV proj + Advanced Flight Proj.)
                # Firestorm

        - Plasma weaponry [21] (plasma pistol tech.) (CUSTOM REQUIREMENTS: reqs. any plasma weapon)
            * SHIV Plasma        >> prototype plasma weapon
                # Plasma pistol
                - Plasma Light Rifle [13] (CUSTOM REQUIREMENTS: reqs. plasma light rifle or plasma rifle)
                    * Alien Grenade (req. item)
                        # Alien Grenade
                    # Plasma Light Rifle
                    - Plasma Rifle [11] (CUSTOM REQUIREMENTS: reqs. Muton Interrogation + item)
                        # Plasma Rifle
                        - Plasma Sniper Rifle [13]
                            # Plasma Sniper Rifle
                        - Heavy Plasma [15]
                            # Plasma Machinegun
                            # SHIV Plasma
                            - Plasma Cannon [10]
                                # Plasma Cannon
                                - Fusion Launcher [15]
                                    # Fusion Cannon
                        - Blaster Launcher [20] (req item)
                            # Blaster Launcher
                        - Alloy Cannon [13]
                            # Alloy Cannon
        - Alien Nav. Computer [7] (req. item)
            # UFO Uplink Targeting
            $ Satellite Nexus
            - New Fighter Craft (CUSTOM REQS req ufo power source, Alloy SHIV proj + Advanced Flight Proj.)
                # Firestorm

    - Xeno-biology [3]
        - Arc Thrower [2]
            # Arc Thrower
        - Sectoid autopsy
            * Improved Arc Thrower project
        - Thin Man autopsy
            * Improved Medikit
        - Floater autopsy
            * Ammo conservation proj
        - Muton autopsy
            Armor 1 research credits (carapace & skeleton)
        - Chryssalid autopsy
            - Psi Armor [17] (chryssalid armor)
                # psi armor (chryssalid armor)
        - Drone autopsy
            * Drone capture
        - Cyberdisk autopsy
            * SHIV Repair
            Grants Laser weaps research credits
        - Sectopod autopsy
            - EMP Cannon (    CUSTOM REQS req. Imp.Arc Thrower, Drone Capt., shiv rep.)
                # EMP Cannon
            Grants Plasma weaps research credits
        - Sectoid Commander autopsy
            $ PsiLabs
        - Berserker autopsy
            # Combat Stims
        - Heavy Floater autopsy
            * Advanced Flight project
                # Hover SHIV (REQUIRES  Alloy Shiv proj.)
        - Muton Elite autopsy
            # chiting plating
        - Ethereal autopsy
            # MindShield

        $ Containment Facility
            - Sectoid Interrogation
                UFOTech res. cred. (includes also basic alien techs like elerium, alloys, alien nav)
            - Thin Man Interrogation
                * Stealth Satellites
                    # UFO Dodge (req. Alin nav item)
            - Floater Interrogation
                Flight res. cred.
                - Archangel Armor (CUSTOM REQUIREMENTS: req. Carapace Armor)
                    # Archangel Armor
            - Muton Interrogation
                 PlasmaWeapons res. cred.
            - Sectoid Commander Interrogation
                 Psionics res. cred.
            - Berserker Interrogation
                AllArmor res. cred.
            - Heavy Floater Interrogation
                Flight res. cred.
                - Archangel Armor (CUSTOM REQUIREMENTS: req. Carapace Armor)
                    # Archangel Armor
            - Muton Elite Interrogation
                AllWeapon res. cred.
            - Ethereal Interrogation
                AllTech res. cred.



- Experimental Warfare [4]
    # Grapple
    * Advanced Construction
    * Improved Pistol I
        * Pistol II
            * Pistol III
    * Scope Upgrade
    * SHIV upgrade
        # Sentry Gun
        # Phoenix Cannon
    * SHIV Suppression

    - Laser Weapons [12]
        * SHIV Laser
            # Laser pistol
            # Laser Rifle
            - Precision lasers [8]        CUSTOM REQS
                # Laser Sniper Rifle
                # Laser Shotgun
            - Heavy lasers [8]        CUSTOM REQS
                # Laser Machinegun
                # SHIV Laser
                - Laser Cannon [8]
                    # Laser Cannon

It's still a draft and I'm still implementing it, but there are a few concepts I want to try with this:
- Concept prototyping: The idea is simple, certain research requires prototyping 'em in the foundry after researching before creating any usable item. This will increase the total research time, but it will allow overlapping different researches simultanously, and hopefuly it will allow for better planned strategies as for research priorities.
- Human techs vs Alien techs: the idea is making both research paths available from the beginnning and making them take sepparate paths, as to say. As I've planned it it's mostly only laser weaponry and "electric" weapons such as arcthrower and emp cannon, but this could be expanded, electric discharges weapons could be turnt into a real tech path, and fire weapons could be vastly upgraded (an idea here is making foundry pistol upgrade affects fire weapons (not laser, not plasma) instead of pistols). The idea is simple again: ignore alien stuff and focus on human techs taken to the max = mid/short tem results, gradually applied vs Focus on alien research = mid/long term results, but of great impact once researched
- Interrogations are necessary to unlock non-essential but powerful researches: I've included a few here, like plasma rifles (and subsequently heavy plasma and plasma cannon) needing to interrogate a muton, and stealth satellites needing to interrogate a Thin man, since you could assume them able to speak some human language.

There's also a few technical stuff I want to try out with this implementation, first adding new techs, I've seen there's this eTech_Placeholder and eTech_MAX that I don't know if it can be used but I want to try, and second is testing setting research time to 1 in BuildTechs function, and see if they are overwritten by ini settings like it happens with BuildItems, so we can free up some space in BuildTechs function to add more default requirements and less custom requirements, which I've cut down to half. Otherwise I think I'll set research time directly in the function. I'm curious to see as well how the research credits are applied, if my guess is correct and it is done *after* the techs have been built, manually setting their time in the function there shouuldn't be any conflict. Numbers in brackets are intended research days, It is intended to emulate almost a marathon-like timming.

Well that's it, I welcome suggestions and any thought regarding this subject.

Happy modding!

edit: corrected spoiler button, some techs reordered.

Edited April 21, 2013 by anUser

[Amineri]

Wow, clearly a lot of thought and time spent coming up with these ideas.

 

I like a lot of the ideas, although clearly re-balancing is going to be a bit time-consuming.

 

Things I like in particular (but no particular order):

1) Adding extra requirements to push plasma weapons to the mid/late game

2) The prototyping (in the Foundry) sounds like a good idea. I'm not quite as convinced in terms of balance, but it would be interesting to see.

3) Re-working the Foundry Pistol 1/2/3 upgrades to apply to ballistic weapons (as opposed to pistols). Alloy barrels improve accuracy, Alloy bullets improve crit hit, and elerium-infused powder increases damage. Timing of these upgrades versus lasers looks problematic. Is there any difference between upgraded ballistics versus lasers? It may be worth differentiating lasers and ballistics similar to how Warspace did to provide a more meaningful choice.

 

Suggestions:

1) Make the interrogations require an autopsy to be conducted first.

2) Move the alloy cannon to the same level as plasma sniper and heavy plasma. For game balance I feel it is necessary.

3) Following the "improve ballistic weapons" idea, maybe make some projects improve the avalanche missiles? Except for the Phoenix Cannon, it's going to be a while for any other interceptor weapon upgrades.

 

Glitches?:

1) I notice you have combat stims available from the start, but also from Berserker autopsy

2) Should the Hover SHIV require the Alloy SHIV to be researched still? Or are you thinking of making the Hover SHIV have fewer HP?

 

Overall -- definitely like the concepts. Will be thinking it over :)

[anUser]

All three motions seconded and both glitches corrected. They were indeed incorrect. Now firestorm also requires the Advanced flight project, and hover shiv also requires alloy shiv project. Combat stims become available once autopsied a muton berserker.

 

I've made a couple of changes as well, first moving alien grenades to plasma techs, second, since prototyping is necessary for weapons research I've made the Foundry available for construction from the beginning. Still most "human techs" become available once Experimental Warfare is researched. Now the first upgrade to interceptors (phoenix cannon) becomes available after prototyping shiv weapon.

 

You've made your point about differenciating ballistic and laser weapons. I play on the basis of Warspace mods, with lasers having greater accuracy, greater crit chance, but same or lower damage as ballistic weapons, and they don't need to reload, but I've also made laser weapons reach one tile further than ballistic weaps, so the player can shot an enemy having plasma rifle from outside it's reaction range, while in order to shoot with ballistic weapons you've got to enter enemy's reaction range, wich I set to 25. Laser weaps reach 27 and all snipers reach 29 (greatest safe view distance) with no squadsight, so one of the differences between weapons is that 1 or 2 tiles edge over the others.

As for the purpouse of making tactical differences in both kind of weapons, long range penalty could be removed from laser rifles and machineguns, at the cost of base aim, and also removing short range aim bonus, to make both laser and ballistic weaps take different roles either for close/mid range or mid/long range combat... or in case we can get item-related perks, it could be done so ballistic weapons have the Close&Personal perk that grants extra crit chance when very close, but it's just a thought, I think the main difference for both weapon types may come from the strategic layer, making ballistic weapons quickly upgradable, with almost no prerequisites, but at an expensive price (in terms of money, foundry projects have a cost), while laser weapons they are almost free, the only thing you need is to spend almost two months researching in the lab, while not researching xeno-biology nor armors.

 

I'm considering now making some hi-tech researches require a lab facility... I guess I'll see that when playing and balancing times...

 

More ideas?

[Amineri]

I had an idea to make the labs and workshops be more like in the OG.

 

Essentially, the base comes "pre-built" with one lab and one workshop (accessed via the "Research" and "Engineering" buttons). However, each lab and workshop only allows 10 (or whatever) scientists or engineers to actually work. Let's go with 10 for some examples.

 

Each lab adds 10 to the number of scientists that can actually do research. Each adjacency adds 5 to the number. If you don't have enough lab space, the extra scientists are idle.

 

Similarly for workshops, each workshop adds 10 to the number of engineers that can actually build items. Each adjacency adds 5 to the number. As with labs, without enough workshops, the extra engineers are idle.

To implement, the function(s) that return num_scientists (for purposes of calculating and updating research times) would now be

 

NumWorkingScientists = MIN((10 + 10*NumLabs + 5 * NumLabAdjacencies) , NumScientists);

 

NumLabs is computed via HQ().GetNumFacilities(7)

NumLabAdjacencies is computed via Base().GetAdjacencies(3)

NumScientists is retrieved from m_iNumScientists, a class variable in XGFacility_Labs

 

I'm sure similar function calls exist for Workshops.

 

This would dramatically alter the balance. Labs and workshops would change from "nice to have bonuses" to "as essential as satellite uplinks/nexus'". I'm also not sure how much I personally would enjoy this ^_^. But I figured I'd toss it out there as an idea...

 

The "Large Labs" and "Large Workshops" of the OG are emulated by building your labs and workshops adjacent to one another. A square of labs could be considered the equivalent to a "Large Lab". Such a "Large Lab" or "Large Workshop" could allow up to 60 additional scientists or engineers to work.

[anUser]

Good idea, but I've got to say I prefer the solution I already implemented... I addressed this making the num of initial engis and scientist to be 10, but then I give only 1 staff for each satellite in a continent above the first satellite, so 1st sat in a continent only gives money, and I also cut abduction and council mission rewards (first in the ini and second in a function) to give only 1 engi or 2 scientists as a reward, so both facilities end up being essential if you want to rush for satellites or research plasma weapons and big armors. Radar engi mult is 5, so right at the beginning you can build another radar and rush for the third, and labs mult is 10, so at the beginning you can buid a lab but you'll got to chose scientist rewards to be able to build the second lab early. Needless to say the big time discount comes with lab adjacency bonus (currently lab 1.1, adj 1.25), so it kinda forces the player to choose either to boost engineering or research. I'm not sure how it would combine with a limited number of active staff, considering there's already few staff in my game... well thanks for the input anyway... right now it's hard to tell which solution would cause the greatest or less flexible requirements, and which one could help in definig research tempos rather than being mere handicaps that escape player's strategic decisions. In the end it doesn't matter if you count staff by units or by tens.

[anUser]

I realize there's no Alloy SHIV project, and also I forgot about the Advance Repair project, so I'm using this one as the foundry prototyping project for alien alloys. It even makes sense reducing repair times once successfuly developed a working prototype of vehicle using alien alloys. It also solves the shivs upgrades to keep em separated from armor upgrades, and also keeping the default shiv project for weapon upgrade (sentry gun) separated from shiv armor upgrade. What a happy accident :)

[Amineri]

Right! I forgot there is no Alloy SHIV project.

 

In the Long War mod, the basic SHIV is made available from the start (but with a fairly hefty cost and a minigun that does 4 damage). This makes the Foundry Project for SHIVs (which normally unlocks both SHIVs and Alloy SHIVs) basically just the Alloy SHIV project. Long War also makes the Alloy SHIV require Titan Armor tech project being complete (vanilla game requires Carapace).

 

On a semi-related note, I remember seeing the value for the Advanced Repair as hard-coded into the XGFacility_Barracks.DetermineTimeOut function. My current game has my modded version (which reworks the SHIV repair times to be more linear with damage taken).

 

But, the specific code lines weren't changed (just the jump offsets):

if(ENGINEERING().IsFoundryTechResearched(5))
{
kSoldier.m_iTurnsOut /= float(2);
}

I probably should have changed that line to be : kSoldier.m_iTurnsOut *= 0.5;

 

That way the time could be adjusted in a more granular fashion if "half-off repair time" unbalances a particular mod. float(2) is 3 bytes, while 0.5 is 5 bytes, so it's not a simple substitution, unfortunately.

[Amineri]

If you are interested in my random musing about weapon rebalancing, I had come up with the following concept. (I don't really plan to ever implement it, though -- it was more of a thought experiment)

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

 

Thoughts on re-working weapon balance.

Making the weapon upgrades less pure weapon upgrades, and have some slight negative aspects.

1) Ballistic Weapons

Ballistic weapons are easy to use and quick, but do little damage. They are the most versatile in being used in a defensive manner.

Firing a ballistic weapon only consumes a move action. Works exactly like Bullet Swarm.

Assault Rifle -- 2 damage

Shotgun, Sniper Rifle, LMG -- 3 damage

2) Laser Weapon

Laser weapons do not have a large damage impulse -- they require a longer time on target to have full effect. To get full damage from a laser weapon requires a full turn action. The visible laser beam and longer time on target allow the user to adjust the aim slightly after beginning to fire, increasing accuracy.

Firing a laser weapon ends the unit's turn. Firing after moving results in lowered damage. All Laser weapons have +10 aim

Laser Rifle -- 5 damage full turn, 3 damage after move, +10 aim

Laser Shotgun, Sniper Rifle, LMG -- 7 damage full turn, 4 damage after move, +10 aim

3) Plasma Weapons

Plasma weapons fire a bolt of highly energized ionized matter contained within a "magnetic bottle". Unfortunately, earth science has an incomplete understanding of these most sophisticated of alien weapons, meaning that our replicas do not work as well as the original and that we are unable to maintain any captured weapons at full functionality. Because of this, the magnetic confinement begins to break down after the plasma bolt has travelled some distance. Because of the time required to recharge the magnetic field coils and dissipate heat buildup, firing rate is lower than ballistic weapons. Plasma weapons are not particularly accurate or inaccurate. The plasma snipers range requirement required a substantially increased set of magnetic field capacitors, with a correspondingly long charge time.

Our inability to precisely machine the alloy flechettes in the alloy cannon means that their aerodynamic properties are less than ideal, leading to a similar reduction in damage at range. However, the short effective range of the Alloy Cannon makes this limitation not be noticable in practice.

Plasma weapons do full damage whether the unit moved or not, but can only fire once per turn. Plasma weapons do full damage out to 50% of maximum range -- damage is reduced to ~70% at max range. Excepting the plasma sniper rifle, units may move or reload after shooting, but may not shoot again. The sniper version consumes the entire turn after shooting.

Light Plasma Rifle -- 5 damage up to 50% range, 4 damage at max range

Plasma Rifle -- 7 damage up to 50% range, 5 damage at max range (5 in the outer two or three squares, otherwise 6)

Plasma Heavy, Alloy Cannon -- 9 damage to 50% range, 6 damage at max range (usually at least 7 though)

Plasma Sniper -- 9 damage up to 50% range (at 36/72), 6 damage at max range (at 72/72) (usually at least 7)

[anUser]

Interesting... by now I'll focus on building the tech trees and balancing tempos, because weapon upgrades will require further research. Some of this ideas could be applied using the "equipped items grant perks" mod once it's finnished, like giving the bullet swarm perk to ballistic weapons, but some others like altering damage depending on distance to the target or the number of actions taken will require messing with more than just perks. But in any case it's an interesting concept, setting fire rate depending on weapon type. Maybe a simple solution I could implement could be giving ballistic weapons Bullet Swarm & Rapid Fire (deadly at close range, poor at long range), Laser weapons get Bullet swarm, and plasma weapons get no perk, so the fire rate gets reduced as the weapon fire power increases. It's just a thought now, gotta see how to balance it all... man, in the end I'll end up completely removing perk trees :P

 

On a side note, I'd say that "i" in "m_iTurnsOut" means the variable is an integer, so no matter if you multiply it by 0.5 or divide it by 2, it's decimal component will be trunkated anyway.

[Amineri]

On a side note, I'd say that "i" in "m_iTurnsOut" means the variable is an integer, so no matter if you multiply it by 0.5 or divide it by 2, it's decimal component will be trunkated anyway.

 

True! But it was a trick question :) , because the "turns" here are measured in hours. And, the concept here was to allow easy modding of the value to something like 0.75 (for a 25% reduction in repair time). To get the same 25% reduction by dividing you'd have to replace / float(2) with / 1.33 -- and that takes more bytes, throwing the rest of the code's jump offsets out of alignment.