Modding Bethesda Games on Game Pass - What we know so far

[CreepyWitch1]

In response to post #91949348.

SKK50 wrote: "This solution has no dependencies on extenders or DLCs and does not change any existing base game scripts, assets or objects. It is 100% pure new Creation Kit forms and scripts which means that it works on PC, Xbox and GamePass with no load order dependencies."

Clear consumer guidance.

THE TLDR , 
Microsoft took the biggest selling single game, of all time , AND REMOVED its biggest selling feature. ie Its modability 
what will this do , ? Force someone to take the steam game Hack it , to remove the steam account check and torrent it as a standalone package.  because if MS dont restore mods no one will buy it.  the Havok Bethesda Engine being so Modable is why people play skyrim

example Jagged alliance 2 has no been modded sucessfully since 1999 and is still playable with better graphics more items more rules etc and it was classed as ABANDONWARE..   

I wonder if the community IE NEXUS MODS  have a legal challenge against Microsoft for removing your source of business

Alternative solution , take the skyrim engine and reengineer the whole game as a independent platform , may mean getting new voice actors but it has also been argued that the game is almost public domain now since modded its hardly the original game anymore 

[showler]

In response to post #91949348. #94760478 is also a reply to the same post.

SKK50 wrote: "This solution has no dependencies on extenders or DLCs and does not change any existing base game scripts, assets or objects. It is 100% pure new Creation Kit forms and scripts which means that it works on PC, Xbox and GamePass with no load order dependencies."

Clear consumer guidance.

CreepyWitch1 wrote: THE TLDR , 
Microsoft took the biggest selling single game, of all time , AND REMOVED its biggest selling feature. ie Its modability 
what will this do , ? Force someone to take the steam game Hack it , to remove the steam account check and torrent it as a standalone package.  because if MS dont restore mods no one will buy it.  the Havok Bethesda Engine being so Modable is why people play skyrim

example Jagged alliance 2 has no been modded sucessfully since 1999 and is still playable with better graphics more items more rules etc and it was classed as ABANDONWARE..   

I wonder if the community IE NEXUS MODS  have a legal challenge against Microsoft for removing your source of business

Alternative solution , take the skyrim engine and reengineer the whole game as a independent platform , may mean getting new voice actors but it has also been argued that the game is almost public domain now since modded its hardly the original game anymore 

Well that's a massive load.

First, Moddability is not the biggest selling point of Skyrim.  The game is the biggest selling point.  This is made perfectly clear by the fact that it sells extremely well on platforms that don't support mods.

Second, what kind of nonsense is "force someone to take the steam game and hack it"?  You can BUY the game on Steam.  If you're not going to use the Gamepass version it does not give you any sort of license to pirate the game instead.  Just buy one of the versions that can be modded.

And the concept of Nexus suing Microsoft is so insane it boggles the mind.   Nexus only exists because the creators of the game allow it to do so.

[Guest deleted34304850]

In response to post #91949348. #94760478, #95324748 are all replies on the same post.

SKK50 wrote: "This solution has no dependencies on extenders or DLCs and does not change any existing base game scripts, assets or objects. It is 100% pure new Creation Kit forms and scripts which means that it works on PC, Xbox and GamePass with no load order dependencies."

Clear consumer guidance.

CreepyWitch1 wrote: THE TLDR , 
Microsoft took the biggest selling single game, of all time , AND REMOVED its biggest selling feature. ie Its modability 
what will this do , ? Force someone to take the steam game Hack it , to remove the steam account check and torrent it as a standalone package.  because if MS dont restore mods no one will buy it.  the Havok Bethesda Engine being so Modable is why people play skyrim

example Jagged alliance 2 has no been modded sucessfully since 1999 and is still playable with better graphics more items more rules etc and it was classed as ABANDONWARE..   

I wonder if the community IE NEXUS MODS  have a legal challenge against Microsoft for removing your source of business

Alternative solution , take the skyrim engine and reengineer the whole game as a independent platform , may mean getting new voice actors but it has also been argued that the game is almost public domain now since modded its hardly the original game anymore 

showler wrote: Well that's a massive load.

First, Moddability is not the biggest selling point of Skyrim.  The game is the biggest selling point.  This is made perfectly clear by the fact that it sells extremely well on platforms that don't support mods.

Second, what kind of nonsense is "force someone to take the steam game and hack it"?  You can BUY the game on Steam.  If you're not going to use the Gamepass version it does not give you any sort of license to pirate the game instead.  Just buy one of the versions that can be modded.

And the concept of Nexus suing Microsoft is so insane it boggles the mind.   Nexus only exists because the creators of the game allow it to do so.

THE TLDR , 
Microsoft took the biggest selling single game, of all time , AND REMOVED its biggest selling feature. ie Its modability 
what will this do , ? Force someone to take the steam game Hack it , to remove the steam account check and torrent it as a standalone package. 
because if MS dont restore mods no one will buy it.  the Havok Bethesda Engine being so Modable is why people play skyrim

example Jagged alliance 2 has no been modded sucessfully since 1999 and is still playable with better graphics more items more rules etc and it was classed as ABANDONWARE..   

I wonder if the community IE NEXUS MODS  have a legal challenge against Microsoft for removing your source of business

Alternative solution , take the skyrim engine and reengineer the whole game as a independent platform , may mean getting new voice actors but it has also been argued that the game is almost public domain now since modded its hardly the original game anymore 

thats one of the funniest posts i've ever read on here.

[ArngrimEinherjar]

Just another way for M$ to mess with the user base and restrict the usage of ouy games.

 

I'd say, if you care for moddable games to still be a thing in the future, don't use that gamepass gimmick. If the road continues down than path, there'll be a time when you won't be able to mod your game files or maybe it'll be considered "illegal".

 

Also, yes: moddability is the main selling point of bethesda games. I wouldn't play Skyrim otherwise.

[ArngrimEinherjar]

In response to post #91955663. #91980893, #92004163, #92005323, #92007078, #92015173, #92035723, #92041663, #92072548, #92086163, #92091233, #92111838, #92111993, #92144808, #92516638, #92589693, #92660833, #92804518, #92887833, #93032463, #93337893, #93339273, #93339358 are all replies on the same post.

ff7legend wrote: No pun/disrespect intended towards console users but with Game Pass, one does not actually own the game in question.  If one fails to renew their yearly subscription to Game Pass, one will lose access to all those so-called "free games" they downloaded to their console's HDD/SSD.  The same applies to PS Plus users.  One is far better off buying the actual game vs obtaining it via Game Pass/PS Plus. 

I actually prefer physical media vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  With a physical copy, I actually OWN the game/music/movie in question & can watch/play/listen to it as many times as I wish without having to pay those nagging subscription fees.  Not only that but the overall sound/video quality of physical media is vastly superior vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  I still have my CDs/Blu-rays for this very reason & will not pay a subscription fee just to watch/play a game/movie or listen to my favorite music.  Total RIPOFF.

Another thing to be concerned with are all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending upon the ISP.  Streaming games/movies/videogames eats up A TON OF DATA.  This is especially true for 4K/8K video streaming.  Many ISPs here Stateside have monthly data caps & charge a King's ransom for going over one's monthly data allotment.  Others will simply throttle one's internet speeds to the point where streaming is impossible depending on the device used.  Either way, physical media is vastly superior & will save one a TON OF $$$$$$ in the long run...

GamingZacharyC wrote: Someone's a misinformed ranter on this forum. First, find an ISP that doesn't have a ridiculous data cap. 1.2 terabytes a month, my data cap, is plenty for me.

Second, renting your game or movie from a service like Netflix, Disney Plus, and Game Pass are really great options for people who only want to watch a movie once or twice. Chances are I'm never going to watch Frozen 2 again. Renting an entire library of games is a great way to go for people who play a game for a short while (think Human Fall Flat) before needing a new one. Game Pass is a great option for games that aren't replayable. Beyond that, streaming quality is getting better and better. If quality is your concern, well, I'm sorry to say that you're not getting a disk of Flora & Ulysses any time soon. There are times when you have to decide: Wallet or impractical peace of mind.

Something that I haven't even mentioned today is that Game Pass DOES NOT MAKE PROFIT as of yet. Microsoft is taking a gamble with it and hoping that people stick around long enough.

Owning a physical disk because of ISP charges is a very uninformed answer that just screams to me "too stubborn to change." Think about it this way: Owning an Xbox disk is really just a container for a license key and some metadata. You still have to download the game over the internet. Also, if game streaming services like GeForce Now didn't exist, there'd be plenty of games I couldn't play with my potato. Instead of paying upfront for a bunch of expensive hardware, I choose to rent it. My household doesn't incur data cap charges, like, ever.

Of course, I don't know why I'm bothering in an attempt to change the mind of someone who argues so naively anyway. I guess this is here for someone else to read and agree with.

Lominsa wrote: .. there are still ISPs that have data caps? I thought that was a thing of the past. At least in my country.

Kalell wrote: Sadly nearly every ISP here in the US has one, and even the few that don't will start throttling your connection if they feel you're using too much.

showler wrote: Game Pass isn't a streaming service to my knowledge.  You download the full game, but with a somewhat restrictive DRM (so you can't just copy it to another folder and keep it).  Unless you are constantly downloading and erasing the games, you won't use much more data than just buying and downloading the game.

SciRika wrote: My ISP added a data cap and tried to advertise it as a bonus "you now have 1TB of data!" when it was "you're now limited to only 1TB of data".

Chaosgod3456 wrote: thats not true ps plus games are free and not like game pass if you dont renew you still own the game

Kel1978 wrote: It's quite rude calling people names. If ff7legend is a ranter then so are you, GamingZacharyC, for ranting about his rant. His situation is different than yours. Maybe he doesn't have a great ISP. There are still places in the US without great connections so perhaps his options are limited. Don't be so judgy.

I prefer physical as well. If I really like a game on Gamepass, I'll buy the physical. I mostly go for collector's edition anyways.

I tried the console versions but modding was way too limiting. A mear 5gb? Ridiculous. I'll stick to PC for Bethesda games.

ThomGonring wrote: Or maybe to read and disagree . . .

#1 try not calling names: "ranter", it does not foster conversation, only reactions.

More specific to your post:

"Game Pass does not make a profit" "Microsoft is taking a gamble"

If you think game pass is going to remain a low monthly fee, think again.  The low initial price is a lure, and the "gamble" is a long term INVESTMENT. designed to generate profits, imagine that!  The price WILL GO UP.

As far as Game Pass's value, it's really as simple as this:

If you want to play a lot of games, and/or try them out without commitment:  Game Pass is Great! - Period

If you prefer a small amount of your favorite games, and/or like to mod:  Game Pass SUCKS! - Period

ALL OF YOU:  recognize that different people have different goals (Which is GOOD!), and stop trying to convert the opposite camp!

MOD CRITICIZERS:  Don't knock mods until you get them working right, because when you do: it transforms your game in ways you cannot imagine.  Skyrim (2011!) is still more playable than many modern games BECAUSE OF MODS.  Yes, they require some patience, but that patience is greatly rewarded.

LAST AND NOT LEAST:  ANY internet outage means no gaming with Game Pass.  If you're going to try and tell me your internet NEVER goes down, I will call you "nobody", because nobody's perfect (including the internet).

Thank you.

DaveClaw wrote: Game Pass is DRM-locked downloaded games.  It is not streaming.

Game Pass is a great way to play 100+ games.  Yes, if you enjoy one of those 100 enough to want a permanent copy then it makes sense to buy the GOTY edition a couple of years later for $20.  Meanwhile you've saved paying $60 each on many games. 

I played Outer Worlds day of release with Game Pass.  It was fun but I'm not feeling any urge to replay it unlike my 1,000+ hours in Fallout 4 and eleventy playthroughs of FO 1-2-tactics-3-NV.  The $60 I didn't pay paid for months of Game Pass by itself.

showler wrote: Not sure why anyone would address "MOD CRITICIZERS" on the Nexusmods message boards.  Not likely to find too many of those around here.

naitzmic wrote: You're aware that discs just have a digital image on them too, right?
There's literally no difference between a downloaded file and the one on a disc. It's all digital.
Whatever difference you think you're seeing/hearing is either placebo or you're comparing two differently encoded files.

As for the datacap argument; eh, okay. Sucks for you, I guess?
I have fiberoptic gigabit ethernet with no restrictions, and IF it should ever go down at an inoppurtune time, I'll hook up my phone and use the 5G connection on that instead. Two different networks, so the likelyhood of both being down at the same time is quite low.

Sounds like "stone-age woes" to me thb.

juggernex9 wrote: Right, Data-Caps, data caps, what is that? I'd understand if you are referring to telephony. But internet? Not in my country either!

werksmith wrote: I think of Game Pass like this: paying a small amount to try out a bunch of different games. If I like the game and it has some replay-ability and I want to play it long term I will buy the game. There is nothing stopping anyone from purchasing the game outright nor is game pass a replacement for that. I really think that game pass marketing is failing at that message and people have that misconception. One other way to look at it is if you do not have much money but want to game you can get in. It really seems like a neat deal especially for those who are less savvy than us on Nexus. 

ff7legend wrote: @juggernex9: A data cap is a cap on the amount of data uploaded/downloaded/streamed within a particular time frame.  Here in the U.S, many ISPs have instituted monthly data caps on home internet service.  This means that if one goes over one's monthly data allotment within a 30 day period, one will incur expensive data overage charges added to their monthly bill.  Some ISPs will also throttle the speed of one's connection in addition to the added data overage charges.  This is especially true for smartphone users.  In many countries across Europe/Asia, it is ILLEGAL for ISPs to cap one's data usage/throttle one's connection speeds.  That is not the case here in the U.S where corporations rule the day via lobbying/political campaign contributions.  ISPs here Stateside also enjoy monopolies across large geographical areas no thanks to the contracts they have in various large cities that expressly PROHIBIT any competing company to have access to the necessary infrastructure to set up a competing network...

vapor78 wrote: AS someone who works for an ISP, MOST ISP's in america do NOT in fact throttle your bandwidth nor do they implement caps, that is almost entirely a cellular or satellite trait.
our "typical" user goes thru about 850 gigs a month, our "heavy" users can do 1.5 tb if they use thier internet as a cable replacement.

if you are being throttled, you may consider switching ISP's

I work for a WISP and we dont even throttle our CU's at all, "unless" thier account has been flagged as abusive use, I.E. they run lots of torrents or are running a server from thier home. in which case they upgrade to a buisiness account and then its no issue

also to note, no internet company in america is allowed a monopoly, there MUST be an alternative even in a franchising situation.
you sir are horribly informed OR you are just making stuff up. idk which.

jeffcollins2020 wrote: Not in the las 5 years I haven had a cap I live in Texas. Check your facts

Kalell wrote: https://www.allconnect.com/blog/internet-service-providers-with-data-caps
https://www.highspeedinternet.com/resources/which-internet-service-providers-have-data-caps
https://www.cabletv.com/blog/which-brands-have-data-caps
https://broadbandnow.com/internet-providers-with-data-caps

griffinClark44 wrote: The free game of the month with gold which comes with the game pass allows you to keep the game without the subscription but go off

rohsaurus wrote: Are you  in the middle of the country because on the east coast, I don't have any data caps or any catches like that.

JIYONTEKUZA wrote: Yes, I agree totally. When I found that the new Cyber Power 880 I had just paid $2500 for had no DVD drive, I contacted their user support to find out why it was missing. They told me all-digital was the way to go, and I said "HELL NO!! I had enough trouble keeping my X Box One unplugged every time my router was on, and unplugging my router every time I wanted to play an X Box game, just to prevent getting shoved any Skyrim updates that would break my game ( a Skyrim game that can only be played for a month or two before needing to be restarted is no Skyrim game at all.) Depending upon a server that may or may not still exist next time I go to play, and hoping to dodge an update that makes a NEW GAME mandatory, is no way to live.

JIYONTEKUZA wrote:     Skyrim and many other disc-based games can be played totally off-line on an X Box One after that X Box One has been registered with Microsoft Live, and after any desired mods have been downloaded. These games can be installed off-line, from disc, as well. It seems there is some way to load mods onto USBs or an External Drive so that the hardware can be reset to factory default to purge any malware, and then mods that are no longer available from Bethesda.net can be re-installed from the memory device (but I have yet to discover that method.)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I am so happy to find that Kiesha (original) has returned to Bethnet, and I only need Heybaby_Jasmine and Immersive Footprints to restore my perfect load order from the time before Creation Club existed. I don't like recorder's new Ebony armor, and sadly no longer use her.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Microsoft's insistence that Skyrim be enlisted into its' ill-advised 4K and 1440p over-reaches led to serious overheating crashes on the hardware. The forced adoption of the wretched and accursed Survival Mode was to induce a cheap death every five minutes to give the CPU a chance to cool down when the 4K/1440p excesses overheated it, even if one only set the hardware to 1080p. I had to reset my X Box One to emulate new-out-of-the-box and change my identity to finally purge the vile and foul Survival Mode, and in doing so lost many of my beloved mods to their unavailablity due to their incompatibility with the latest worthless Creation Club update (Armored Mudcrab, anybody?). If I had taken my X Box off-line and kept it there the day before Creation Club was unleashed on an innocent world, I would probably now be finishing a completionist Skyrim playthrough using my adorable and magnificent April 2019 mod list, which I can never recover.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   May on-line only single-player games be damned for dogs!   I'm looking at you, Red Dead Redemption!   Your clunky set-pieces are not worth spending any data time upon!          

JIYONTEKUZA wrote: No they are not identical. CDs use the Wav. file format, which has 10x the data points as digital download's compressed MP3s.

ff7legend is totally right. Those streaming "services" and new forms of DRM may end up killing the freedom of the players. Also, some of us like OWNING our stuff.

[showler]

In response to post #95376923.

ArngrimEinherjar wrote: Just another way for M$ to mess with the user base and restrict the usage of ouy games.

I'd say, if you care for moddable games to still be a thing in the future, don't use that gamepass gimmick. If the road continues down than path, there'll be a time when you won't be able to mod your game files or maybe it'll be considered "illegal".

Also, yes: moddability is the main selling point of bethesda games. I wouldn't play Skyrim otherwise.

Statistically speaking, what you play Skyrim for is insignificant.

The game sold millions of copies on Xbox 360 and PS3 without any possibility of mod support and sells on Switch without any sort of official mod support (hacking the console is required).   According to reports I remember from Bethesda, the majority of players never install a mod on their games.

[Deleted3624098User]

The life here on nexusmods will continue as we are used too?

[showler]

In response to post #95404368.

fredlaus wrote: The life here on nexusmods will continue as we are used too?

Nothing we've seen or heard so far indicates that Microsoft intends to do anything to affect current games or modability.

The problem is entirely based on MS needing a way to prevent people from continuing to play a Gamepass game after they've cancelled their Gamepass subscription.

[HadToRegister]

https://game-debate.com/news/30399/skyrim-special-edition-on-game-pass-can-be-modded-but-is-severely-limited

 

However, some games on the Xbox Game Pass app allow for an optional toggle button that can allow mod installs by opening up the root game folder including the game’s executable. Skyrim Special Edition on Xbox Game Pass allows this but comes with one important caveat: the Skyrim Script Extender (SKSE) is incompatible with this version.

SKSE is required for some of the most popular mods for Skyrim Special Edition, but unfortunately the Game Pass executable version is 1.5.111 - which is a new version of the game (probably to allow Xbox Achievements and Microsoft log in etc.) - whilst the Steam version is 1.5.97.

Doubly unfortunate for players is that it seems like SKSE won’t be updated to the Game Pass version, as the official website says that “SKSE cannot support any potential Windows Store release of Skyrim. Windows Store applications are locked down similarly to consoles and do not allow the APIs necessary for script extenders to work.”

That means that yes, Skyrim Special Edition on Xbox Game Pass does allow for mod support, but only as long as they do not require SKSE to work. There are of course Bethesda.Net mods which have been created without the need for SKSE anyway, but could prove a problem in terms of load order if you have any conflicting mods.

 

 

[Kalell]

In response to post #95503598.

HadToRegister wrote: https://game-debate.com/news/30399/skyrim-special-edition-on-game-pass-can-be-modded-but-is-severely-limited

However, some games on the Xbox Game Pass app allow for an optional toggle button that can allow mod installs by opening up the root game folder including the game’s executable. Skyrim Special Edition on Xbox Game Pass allows this but comes with one important caveat: the Skyrim Script Extender (SKSE) is incompatible with this version.
SKSE is required for some of the most popular mods for Skyrim Special Edition, but unfortunately the Game Pass executable version is 1.5.111 - which is a new version of the game (probably to allow Xbox Achievements and Microsoft log in etc.) - whilst the Steam version is 1.5.97.
Doubly unfortunate for players is that it seems like SKSE won’t be updated to the Game Pass version, as the official website says that “SKSE cannot support any potential Windows Store release of Skyrim. Windows Store applications are locked down similarly to consoles and do not allow the APIs necessary for script extenders to work.”
That means that yes, Skyrim Special Edition on Xbox Game Pass does allow for mod support, but only as long as they do not require SKSE to work. There are of course Bethesda.Net mods which have been created without the need for SKSE anyway, but could prove a problem in terms of load order if you have any conflicting mods.

Good info.