Physics

[cursedlife1126]

I have a beef with nearly every game dealing with collision detection or physics pertaining to picking up objects.

 

I suppose a "for instance" would be appropriate. Let's say I'm attempting to set up an amusing scene using rag dolls of fallen NPC's. I go to grab/adjust the foot or hand and end up with the torso or leg. No matter how precise I try to be this happens. Seriously, if I see another game from Bethesda (spelling?) handle so poorly, I will officially boycott any game made after until I hear that the physics had an overhaul. Why even bother with physics if you simply can't pull it off? It's the same with every game I've played from Bethesda. The object that is picked up moves slower than my cursor or the cursor grabs the wrong item or I open a box when I meant to pick up an object on top of the box regardless of how precise I try to be. It's a rather frustrating situation in any case.

 

I suppose my main reason for posting this is to ask if anyone out there has crafted a mod pertaining to the horrid physics or if it's even possible to do so without re-writing the engine itself. Either way, I won't be buying another game dealing with the above mentioned issues.

[cursedlife1126]

Please keep in mind that I do love the games previously released but I am tired of companies dragging their feet with aspects of their games. There are many examples but it'd require me to do hours of research I just don't have time for. Something such as physics should have been fine tuned by now. It's just so annoying and takes away my experience with the game when something so used throughout the games causes unneeded frustration and stress. I honestly try to have fun but after opening the same empty container accidentally four times while trying to pick up two objects is simply ridiculous and needs to be addressed. I slowly attempt to position my cursor over an object or body part only to have the mouse select something next to or behind it is something I just don't have the patience for anymore.

[ZableBlaze]

Most games don't let you grab dead bodies the way Bethesda's games do. Usually it's something linear, like kicking them 1,000 feet or something. Whereas in Oblivion/Fallout you can drag them off hills, hide them, etc. Now, the feet and hands -do- have physics but aren't 'grab points' because people aren't usually mucking around with.. Feet.

[Vagrant0]

The reason why collision, or ragdoll physics might seem so bad to you is because you don't realize just how much processing and pre-planning is needed to make it all work. Each of the bodies in Oblivion or fallout consist of bones with capsule shaped collision meshes. These collision meshes have the be fairly simple so as to not overload the processor of the game, and they have to be generic enough to fit with any sort of clothes or covering that a character may be wearing. The collision meshes for most objects are also a bit overscaled so that you are much less likely to have 1 collision mesh intersecting another. This causes the floating effect you may have seen as these two meshes push off eachother. The grabbing action for the game HAS to have a fairly wide cone of interaction so that the player has the ability to grab anything without knowing exactly where this collision mesh is. If multiple objects are within this cone, it tends to select whichever collision mesh is closer. The slow moving of certain meshes, like bodies deals with their inherant weight. Not sure if you've noticed, but it isn't particularly easy to go lifting a human body, especially one wearing armor, no matter where you grab it.

 

Go play a game where there is no collision or physics... You might appreciate how revolutionary what is here actually is. Before Oblivion was released, it was even suggested that having all the clutter on a table, for instance, being things you could knock around and interact with was impossible. So impossible, one posted mentioned that if they could knock all the stuff off that table, that they would run around town naked. Obviously, it was possible... Not sure if that guy ever made good on his words though.

[cursedlife1126]

Look, all I'm saying is they need to lower the "cones" size quite a bit. There are instances where the cone of a dead body prevents picking up items right next to it. In three dimensional games programmers need to realize that items, boxes and other variables will be under or near other objects making the current settings difficult to interact with. It almost seems, in most cases, that they were attempting to overcompensate for less intuitive players. This attempt did not help but, in fact, hindered playability.

[maYuYang]

I don't think that that would better the effect you mentioned. I recently learned how to animate(for Oblivion) and have to work with the bones and those cones. It's really not easy and I admire all game developers for being so patient to handle that. If you take Crysis for example, it really has great physics, but even they produce glitches(e.g. in the beginning of the game where you should lift that box as part of the tutorial). The more realistic a game becomes, be it graphics, animations, AI or physics, the easier it is to see those glitches and bugs. Oblivion and FO3 which I believe even rely on the same gaming engine are a great example for the improvement of physics: Try to pick something up in Oblivion and place it on a shelf or table. Then do the same in FO3. You will see the difference.

[cursedlife1126]

I installed Oblivion, Morrowind and Fallout 3 today to test a few things out. I placed a corpse of an npc next to an object, just underneath the torso and on top of the torso to see how I was able to interact effectively.

 

Object one foot away from npc - I encountered two issues with obtaining the object; when placing the cursor on the object when in a standing position (facing the body and object) I was still selecting the body. When crouching, with the cursor still aiming at the object, I was still selecting the body. Only when I moved away from the body and object was I able to select the item. This tells me that the "cone" used for the arm was far bigger than the arm itself. A simple fix, in my opinion, would be to reduce the cone of the arm to the actual frame of the arm. I do know that this will be time consuming but it's hardly difficult. I've also worked with oblivion data processing around year two of its release and while it is a lengthy task to calculate precision, I never had a hard time. I imagine that the professionals programing these calculations daily have a far easier time than I do.

 

Object just underneath the torso (clearly visible) - This was an exercise in futility. No matter the angle, I was unable to pick up the object. Keep in mind that the angles tested aren't close to the angle possible. Perhaps there was a small opening but I missed it.

 

Object on top of the torso - My cursor easily picked up the object but I had to be precise. This precision of selecting the tiniest of objects (i.e. bottle caps) placed on top of containers causes the need to spend far more time than needed when attempting to gather said objects. I know this particular complaint may seem hypocritical but keep in mind that I am merely showing how the physics of the game cause unneeded complications. In this case I would actually increase the cones of smaller objects. Not by much but enough to allow for easier collection. I also have another solution that irritates me how nobody has thought of this. Disallow access to an empty container or npc corpse by; a. Holding down another button to allow access, i.e. Holding shift while right/left clicking or; b. the container/corpse has a timer as to when it can be accessed again, i.e. 5 seconds.

 

These tests were done to all three games and the results where very similar. I can only assume that this is due to the company using nearly the same engine for each game.

 

Oh, and please excuse my first two posts. I was tired and irritated by the incidents explained above.