Dozens of US cities threaten to evict domestic violence victims if the

[Marxist ßastard]

She gets beat up (or far more likely having an argument with her live in) and calls 911 again.

 

Police hate to go on domestic violence calls - more often than not the woman refuses to file any charges and the cop has put his life on the line and wasted police resources for nothing more than to break up an argument. I have a friend who was a cop. He was nearly killed three times answering a domestic violence calls.

Um, what? An armed and trained police officer almost gets killed responding to a domestic violence call – but you think that before the officer arrived the victim was in no danger whatsoever and it was just an "argument"? Edited May 2, 2013 by Marxist ßastard

[TRoaches]

How does forcing a land lord to evict the tenant solve the domestic violence problem? Exactly what is achieved by making the victim move to a different location or making them homeless because land lords won't want to rent to the victim?

It doesn't. It is not the purpose of the law. It is like asking "How does forcing a land lord to evict a heavy metal drummer who practices from 3-5am supposed to improve his drumming?". It is not meant to addresss domestic violence, it is meant to address repeated criminal complaints at a property regarding a particular tenant. I still think the law is a bad idea, but to say that fails to do anything to help violence victims is to miss the point of the law.

Victims cannot file charges - only a prosecutor can file charges. The victim may only file a complaint. Under most state law and the VAWA an officer can arrest someone for abuse without a warrant if they have probable cause that abuse has taken place within the past 12 hours, regardless of whether they witness the crime or a formal complaint has been filed.

This is true, but "probable cause" does not exist without evidence. If the officer responds to a neighbor's 911 call that the Smiths are fighting again, but upon arrival there is no evidence of a fight and both of the Smiths mantain that nothing happened where is this probable cause? An officer cannot arrest someone without evidence, no exceptions. A prosecutor will not charge someone without evidence, no exceptions. If the Smiths see the police roll up and they collect their heads and move out to the porch to share a quiet smoke and greet the officer there really isn't anything the police can do.

It is an uncomfortable and unpopular thing to place some of the blame on to the perceived victim in this sort of thing, but the fact is the assumption that the woman is ALWAYS the victim is false, and quite sexist. Sometimes when two people are fighting there is no victim, just two criminals. If I fight another man and lose I am still breaking the law even though I lost. To hold women to a different standard is to deny their equality. If it really is a one sided attacker-victim scenario the tools are available to the victims of this situation but are useless if they choose not to use them. If they choose not to use them they cease to be victims to some extent and become one of the criminals because they are aiding the attacker to hide a crime.

I grew up surrounded by this stuff. You'll learn a lot about domestic violence that may not be in the textbooks if you spend some time in the horizontal ghettos.

Edited May 2, 2013 by TRoaches

[Boaresa]

Um, what? An armed and trained police officer almost gets killed responding to a domestic violence call – but you think that before the officer arrived the victim was in no danger whatsoever and it was just an "argument"?

Its because such cases have the need that the officers enters a closen room with at least to people to watch for. Also you don't know who are these people. Couple got in a confrontation or drug addicted who just scream at each other for no reason.

[bben46]

A Tidus: When making an arrest for domestic violence, the cop will typically ask the victim if she wants to 'file charges', not if she wants to make a complaint even though that is what they are actually doing. The actual charges are then filed by the district attorneys office with her listed as complainant.

 

If a 'victim' is a victim 6 or 7 time a year then maybe the victim is at least partially at fault. These laws are aimed at public housing and not private rentals. In a public housing complex there are many other residents who are being inconvenienced by these constant 'domestic spats'. And somehow it's the cops fault that they can't control these domestic disturbances - so they get kicked out after becoming a nuisance. How would you like to have a neighbor who was constantly getting into fights with her various boy friends and then calling the cops to settle the argument?

 

@ Marxist - Many of these calls are just that, an argument. The man and woman are yelling, screaming and breaking things and a concerned neighbor calls the cops. When the cop arrives BOTH demand he get out of their business, and often both get busted for disturbing the peace. But not for domestic violence unless one of them wants to file an official complaint.

 

The cop had his skull fractured not by the husband , but by the wife who called the cops. She saw her hubby being handcufffed and put into the back of a police car, and reacted by hitting the cop over the head with a cast iron frying pan. He was knocked unconscious - a passerby called it in on his radio. On another call he was shot at by the guy. He missed & ran - he was caught the next day hiding in his Girlfriend's (yes the one who called the cops ) house. And on another talked the guy into actually putting down a shotgun and surrendering peacefully. - NONE of these female 'victims' wanted their 'man' to go to prison even after beating them senseless. (All of these did, but not on domestic violence charges. )

 

One that I forgot - the female victim was the only one there when the cop arrived. She was sitting on the doorstep while he examined the bruises on her face He had already called for an EMT because she looked bad - she leaned over and bit him on the shoulder - not a love bite, but bit a mouthful of meat out that took quite a few stitches. He didn't consider that one life threatening though.

 

A woman being a victim once is domestic violence She needs a restraining order and to keep away from that guy. - the same woman taking her abuser back in and being a victim over and over is masochism. Locking up the perp isn't going to stop her problem, she will find another guy to beat her up. I have seen it happen more than once. These women need to go to counseling - but refuse to admit that it's partly their fault. Also, some of these women are giving as good as they are getting - a favorite is starting a fight with boyfriend, beating on him until he hits back, then calling the cops to lock him up.

[Tidus44]

A Tidus: When making an arrest for domestic violence, the cop will typically ask the victim if she wants to 'file charges', not if she wants to make a complaint even though that is what they are actually doing. The actual charges are then filed by the district attorneys office with her listed as complainant.

 

Again, I will make the point that the police do not require the victim to make a complaint in order to arrest and charge the perpetrator or abuser. If there is sufficient evidence then the cop can be the complainant and forward the complaint for charges to be laid. They can also establish parameters to try and reduce the potential for the next occurrence that will allow them to arrest the perpetrator no matter if the victim complains or not or if there is any evidence. They will arrest the perpetrator for failing to comply with a police order.

Cops asking "do you want file charges" as if it were the victims only option is lousy, lazy and stupid police work.

 

If a 'victim' is a victim 6 or 7 time a year then maybe the victim is at least partially at fault. These laws are aimed at public housing and not private rentals. In a public housing complex there are many other residents who are being inconvenienced by these constant 'domestic spats'. And somehow it's the cops fault that they can't control these domestic disturbances - so they get kicked out after becoming a nuisance. How would you like to have a neighbor who was constantly getting into fights with her various boy friends and then calling the cops to settle the argument?

 

The issue is not what I would do, but I will answer. What I would do is call the police. The police would arrive and identify a domestic abuse problem. The problem would be referred to the crisis unit who would contact and then work with the victim to try and break the cycle of violence that was occurring.

 

Since there is both state and federal funding available for programs designed to reduce domestic violence, implementing a police crisis unit to reduce the occurrence of domestic violence should be the chosen option, not punishing victims.

The crisis units do something besides evicting victims because evicting people does not address the problem, it just moves it to a different location. I have no idea why anyone, except someone so stupid and/or hateful they shouldn't be allowed to live, would even make a law that victimizes victims further.

The crisis units help people and do a pretty good job of it and have reduced domestic abuse occurrences. I want to be careful here because I want to clearly state the crisis unit is not perfect and do not succeed 100% of the time. But, in my mind it is a much better to be helping people than punishing them, especially if they are a victim of something they cannot control or have no control over.

 

I do not know how much you looked into the various ordinances that were linked by the OP. The ordinances I read did not specify "public housing only" and most did not identify private rental properties as exempt from the ordinance. Most identified any property designated as a nuisance was subject to the ordinance.

 

In looking at the various ordinances, it does make sense that a neighborhood nuisance who is violating the rights of other people should be charged and fined under the bylaw and where a land lord is allowing unlawful or illegal activity to take place, they should be fined as well and told to clean up their act. The communities where I live have nuisance ordinances to address the stupid things people do (burn garbage and let the smoke drift all over, park a semi on the street and let it idle noisily all night spewing diesel fumes, hold loud parties all night, etc.).

The area where I see these ordinances as completely out to lunch is in domestic abuse or where a person is a victim (what if the victim is robbed or their home broken into and had to call the police?).

Some ordinances were non discretionary and there is no option except eviction regardless of the circumstances. That is just bad law.

As for the discretionary ordinances, if used by police to evict people to move the problem down the road because they don't like responding to domestic complaints, then I fall back onto my original statement, that such action is not just disgusting, but actually sickening how some municipal authorities treat people.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Tidus44

[TRoaches]

 

If there is sufficient evidence then the cop can be the complainant and forward the complaint for charges to be laid.

 

You are correct, but if there if all parties involved maintain that there was no crime committed, and the officer did not witness it, and there are no physical signs of a crime there is no evidence and therefore no arrest can be made. Even if it is ridiculously obvious that a fight occurred it can be covered by a simple lie to the police. For example, if someone has a bruised face all they have to say is "I fell off my bike and bruised my face." The bottom line is that, as you stated, evidence is required. In the case of two people fighting the testimony of one of them against the other is just about the only evidence that is going to exist.

[ginnyfizz]

 

 

A woman being a victim once is domestic violence She needs a restraining order and to keep away from that guy. - the same woman taking her abuser back in and being a victim over and over is masochism. Locking up the perp isn't going to stop her problem, she will find another guy to beat her up. I have seen it happen more than once. These women need to go to counseling - but refuse to admit that it's partly their fault. Also, some of these women are giving as good as they are getting - a favorite is starting a fight with boyfriend, beating on him until he hits back, then calling the cops to lock him up.

 

I am flabbergasted, really bben46 I would have expected FAR better from you. I'd really like to see you say that to the woman who used to live next door to us and whom my late parents had to save from death on more than one occasion. You forget that where children are involved, it is not as simple as just walking out, especially where your husband is a psychopath who also threatens said kids with violence/threatens to make sure she never sees those kids again. This poor lass was treated worse than an animal, and don't try and tell me it was her fault - she pressed charges and the police were only too willing to pursue them and actively encouraged her, as did my Mum and Dad, to get him legally excluded with a restraining order. And the police were as disgusted as we all were when the courts/CPS persistently downgraded the charges to common assault rather than wounding with intent/GBH which can carry a life sentence.

 

I had better go, before I get even more steamed up...