sumoftwosins Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 It is the EULA from Fallout 3. Buddah had a link for it here - Fallout 3 EULA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skree000 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 About 2 years ago now I heard a very interesting fact about the majority of the game industry. Among many studios, its a basic understanding that an art asset (2d or 3d) becomes 'yours' when it has been modified atleast 40%. Credit to the original creator is required up until 80%, atwhich point the asset has become unrecognizeable from the original and becomes an original work. Heres the catch though, this 'percentage' is totally relative and a big grey-area. (use best judgement I suppose) In a perfect world, we all make everything from scratch, the way it was meant to be. But these days, game publishers still have insanely tight deadlines and they have not expanded their horizons on how long proper next-gen games take to be made... It is a fairly common practice to use pre-existing assets as a base, whether they are scavenged from the internet from free sites or recycled from other games. This trend is apparently growing very rapidly as of late across many studios worldwide, since the quality of games is skyrocketing, yet the sizes of production teams are still stuck in 1990's mode where a team of 10-20 was enough to meet the needs of a games art. Nowadays, next gen titles demand massive ranks of artists. Either that or you acquire assets from somewhere else and improve upon them. Sadly, this philosophy is not adopted universally. (NOTE: When I say 'recycled from other games', I strictly refer to games previously released by that same studio. Not 'stolen from other studios games' etc. (that would still be tongue-in-cheek taboo quasi-wrong) If you ask me, as long as nobody can discern your work from anyone elses (it is completely unique looking) I dont care what you started with, you could take all my creations and do massive makeovers, as long as it becomes something wholely different.Usually however for this level of creativity it requires significant skill and knowledge of 2d/3d applications, whereas the average user only performs texture-swaps or subtle tweaks. (These would not qualify imho as legit (enough) changes to warrant not disclosing the original authors information) When all is said and done, everyone wants compensation for their time invested. But the lines must be drawn somewhere. Do people give thanks to which software packages they use when they release a mod? Do they give thanks to the makers of the Operating system? How about the makers of the mousepad they were using, or the name of the factory that made the chair they were sitting in... after all, all of those things were necessary to complete that asset/mod/creation. Dont they deserve recognition? (obviously this is an exaggeration, but it raises a good point, how far back do we give credit? The answer is: Up to you. The more people you recognize, the better. Some games ive seen recognize and give full credit (in their credits) to coffee shops and restaurants that were frequented often during a production cycle.. heh) (NOTE: Jay you bring up a good topic, please dont misinterpret my post, Im not trying to say that people blatantly ripping off your work (and not giving credit) is good... that is very, very wrong. I was merely talking about extensive-modification of pre-existing assets, not really trying to comment on your particular situation *HUGS*) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumoftwosins Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Do people give thanks to which software packages they use when they release a mod? Do they give thanks to the makers of the Operating system? How about the makers of the mousepad they were using, or the name of the factory that made the chair they were sitting in...They would if it was in the EULA :-) In art school we talked about this a lot. When you create a work of art, there is some automatic protection laws for it. It has been a while and I do not know the current status of that or the specifics. One of the biggest issues that we discussed was the fact that nothing you make is 100% original. The ideas essentially come from something. Yes, this varies greatly. If I look at a magazine to use as reference when I paint a picture do I credit it the publisher for my art work? This topic was debated from one end to the other. Regardless of opinions and contracts. Nothing is every 100% certain. You have to remember that if/when you go to court over an issue everything then becomes and interpretation of the Jury. That is what takes care of that "gray" area that we often encounter in legal issues. If you do something that breaches contract, Bethesta can't waive it in your face and enforce it. They can't come to your house and take your material away. Only the court can do that and the contract backs Bethesta up. Granted people can be banned from forums and shunned from popular venues... I won't ever go as far as legal action if someone rips me off as far as art work (unless it was worth more that the cost and trouble of legal action), but they better hope that we don't cross paths in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Meh, being that I can't model or create textures for crap, I guess this sort of thing doesn't hit as close to home with me as it could. Having said that, I think that the OP is just having a bad knee-jerk reaction to some douche using his work and claiming it as their own. It's awful that people have done that but given that he's been modding for a while it couldn't have been the first time that it has happened. Ugh, I really should get to bed. I'm just rambling now without a point to be seen. In the end, modelers and texture makers and moders should be recognized for their efforts, especially if we plan on using some of their work in our own mods. If people had just stuck to that rule of thumb we wouldn't be having this wonderful discussion right now. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baelkin Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Where's that EULA quote from sumoftwosins? The one I had to agree to when I got the GECK was the same one as posted here:http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.ph...;#entry13535190 Just wanted to throw in a comment on the EULA in the link and the last post in the same thread, not really discuss whether you are talking about the same EULA. :P The initial paragraph in that link defines "New Materials" as anything made using the Editor, which means that Bethesda's ownership is restricted to what is compiled into the .esp and not any models or textures referenced from within the .esp. The original game assets that came with Fallout 3 are needless to say Bethesda's property, but stating that models and textures independent agents have made become property of Bethesda by virtue of them being referenced by an .esp is pure bunk. If the meshes and textures are blatantly modified art assets that shipped with the game, then they'd be Bethesda property by virtue of the game's EULA and not the GECK EULA. The only case where new meshes and textures could ever be the property of Bethesda, using the current EULA for the GECK, is if the GECK could facilitate the construction of meshes and textures and compile them into something that does not reference outside itself. Then the contents could be classified as Bethesda property as everything from the mesh to the .esp that would make them work could be classified as "New Material". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haito13 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 If anyone can Rip you off then whats the point of uploading your finished work? Might as well upload pics, then email the file to anyone who ask for it, or when your feeling really lazy... Ignore their request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baelkin Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 If anyone can Rip you off then whats the point of uploading your finished work? Might as well upload pics, then email the file to anyone who ask for it, or when your feeling really lazy... Ignore their request. That's point and a scenario that I think most people want to avoid. The only thing it takes is that modders respect each other and ask for permission before using something that essentially isn't theirs to re-release to begin with. I know it's the same that's being said about piracy, but this isn't a matter of money, it's a matter of getting anything produced at all. When people don't respect and appreciate your work, then why should you spend hours on end making anything in the first place if you risk getting it ripped/plagiarized without permission? It's just a matter of common courtesey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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