Time for ideas on TES VI

[Lachdonin]

Ok, this has come up on the Bethesda Fourms again, and I thought I'd bring it up here ..

Game Engines.

Once upon a time, I thought as most do. Game Engines are what a game runs off of, and while you can push them, after awhile they lag behind and need updates or replacement. So, Unreal becomes Unreal2, CryEngine becomes CryEngine2 and so on.

But, j talked to some people who went to school for gakes design, a few who work in the industry, and even did some reading online through various sources, and eventually discovered... That's not all together true.

A Game Engine is basically just a system of design modules that facilitates gameplay, typically consisting of at least a Graphics Render, a Sound Render, a physics and animations system, and a scripting system, along with a background framework that can be used to facilitate interaction between the components to expedite the development process. So, using a Game Engine basically allows you to do multiple things at once (such as model, animate and apply physics) instead of having to do each independantly.

Most Game Engines are owned by particular companies. These companies contract out the Engine to others, allowing other companies to produce games on the engine they designed in exchange for financial compensation, typically a cut of the games profits or a set 'rent'. The reason we see the transition from Engine to Engine isn't because things wear out, and more because individual contracted companies can't legally make major alterations, and the developer of the Engine can 'sell' their 'New' version to companies using the older one. In a lot of cases, this is just a simple update of the modules the Engine facilitates, and the background interaction doesn't change at all.

Why is this important to consider? Because Bethesda controls their own Engine. They don't have an operating contract with any company, and have total control of the systems they implement. That means that nothing is a limitation of the Engine, but rather the product of the design modules that Bethesda decides to use, and their skill with them.

So, changing the Engine does nothing but make Bethesda beholden to someone else in terms of what tools they have available. Well, more beholden, because most of those tools are also developed by independant companies (NVida develops video render skftware for instance).

'Engines' as the gaming community tends to recognise them don't even really exist beyond a single game. We typically view Morrowind to Fallout 4 as running on the same Engine, but the truth is each game opperates on a modified or entirely different Engine assembled with the same toolset.

 

 

TL/DR Game Engines are composed of parts that are easy to change and update. They aren't static, and they don't wear out easily.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Lachdonin

[Lachdonin]

Alright, it's been too long since i typed this up, and since Bethesda's threads get locked, it's of more use here than there.

 

First off, something of a disclaimer as to what i'm doing, and why i do it. This is not a 'My perfect TES' or a 'This would fix TES'. This is the product of many discussions, and many hours of pondering, and is what i think would be useful, characteristic or otherwise interesting for TES. I do this sort of thinking in my free time, for fun, and i find that it helps me understand and appreciate the games i play. I have no illusions that any of this will affects Bethesda's design (though, i have to admit, it would feel nice) and do not mean it to insult or dismiss others opinions on the subject. I hope to encourage discussion, comprehension, and maybe inspire some better modders than i (i've never published anything, but do my own modding).

 

Second, i should broadly speak about my inspiration. Basically, anything's game. I play a wide range of games, read a wide range of material, and generally have diverse interests. Though i am, technically, an Anthropology Academic, i do a lot of reading from things as diverse as quantum physics and carpentry. Generally, i tend to favour new over old, as older things (games included) tended to be mechanically or conceptually inferior, and suffered from being driven by their limitations rather than embracing their possibilities. Because i tend to draw inspiration from wide sources, there's going to be elements of FPS, RTS, 4X, maybe even mobile gaming involved in various elements, so bear that in mind. If you are the type that thinks that there is a 'Proper' way to do make an RPG, don't read any further, it's not worth either of our time. Also, i hate Dark Souls (not because it's hard, i've beaten 1 and 2, i just think they are poorly made games that just aren't fun) so there's not going to be much inspiration coming from there, and i know many people like to compare TES to them.

 

Before i go on, some formatting notes. I'm going to break this up into Spoiler tabs to save everyone's eyes. Each bracket will contain a basic concept, followed by some more technical notes, and maybe examples. So, you can pick through and read what you want more easily, without having to stare through an entire wall of text.

 

 

Concepts

 

 

Every game, movie or novel has some broad ideas which guide it's structure and themes.

 

Philosophy

 

 

The basic driving mentality of the design. One of the things that's important to TES is the ability to experience a world. They aren't tight, character driven stories with deep plots with twists and turns. TES games are, first and foremost, about the world. The problem is, the philosophy behind design of TES (and most RPGs, for that matter) has become what i tend to call 'Mario Mentality'. Dungeons, Ruins and environments are designed so serve a game-play purpose, some sort of challenge or experience. Make a world, one that makes sense and follows it's own internal logic. Then create a set of tools that allow the Players to define a character and experience that world. Challenges will make themselves.

 

 

 

Emphasis

 

 

Similar to the overall philosophy, the emphasis on design should be on the world, and empowering the Player to experience it. It's not about telling a story, it's not about exploration or fighting or interaction. It's about doing what you can to simulate the world, at a particular moment of time, under particular circumstances (typically something bad). The emphasis should be on empowering the Player, through allowing them to experience that world how they wish, by giving them as broad a toolset as possible (that doesn't strictly break the game) and as many activities as possible to experience and engage in.

 

 

 

Stories

 

 

This is going to be something of a divisive subject... But i don't like stories with a lot of choices. I actually think that the quality of the story is better served with linearity, and that continuing franchises in particular have shown that trying to accommodate for multiple outcomes leads to sloppy and often forced writing. Games like Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age Inquisition and The Witcher 3 would have, in my opinion, been better served with fewer choices, and better story telling.

 

As i said, however, stories shouldn't be the primary focus. Build a world, give players the tools to experience it, and then work on scattering stories here and there. For the most part, they shouldn't be shifting stories that change based on your choices. They should be set, linear stories, Plays, which you take a specific role in. As with the overall design, it's more about the world, and us experiencing it, than us controlling it. Choice and control are fine in smaller scale stories that history won't remember... But for the most part, the bigger stories shouldn't try to conform to every little choice a Player has made. It's up to the Player to decide why their character engages in a particular story, not up to the story to change to suit that character.

 

 

 

Paradigms

 

 

This is something introduced in Redguard, that has since become more and more prevalent in TES... The world, the universe, is governed by concepts and reflections of concepts, with 3 of the most powerful being the Warrior, the Mage, and the Thief. These 3 concepts have replaced the Magic, Combat and Stealth skill-groupings and come to largely govern the mentality behind the 3 primary approaches to gameplay. Which i think is great. Having this sort of recurring concept allows for some distinct approaches to be examined and inspired, and for a sort of re-purposing of the antiquated and (frankly) sloppy Class systems. You have 3 rather distinct archetypes which would all approach problems very differently, and serve as interesting bases for approaches to various problems.

 

The Warrior is direct, confrontational and blunt. It's influence is about tackling problems head on, about going through rather than around, and about out-lasting rather than out-thinking. They use close range, melee weapons to deal damage, they rely on their equipment (armour and shield) to decrease the damage they take, and the visual threat they pose to discourage threats.

 

The Thief is more thoughtful, with a heavy focus on avoidance. They rely on out thinking and out manoeuvring, trying to maintain their distance and avoiding confrontation altogether. Stealth, ranged weapons, and being quick-of-foot are their solutions to combat, and supplemented with a silver tongue and a penchant for various alchemical tinkering.

 

The Mage can do a little bit of everything. As they say, 'Anything you can do, i can do better'. Practitioners of magic have access to magical solutions to every problem... manipulation, stealth, damage mitigation, close range damage, long range deal dealing, and everything in between. Their limitation, however, is that it all draws upon limited magical reserves, and without their magic, they're basically useless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mechanics

 

 

 

Alright. The meat of things...

 

Character

 

 

 

Race

 

 

In general, Race should be a rather minor characteristic. It defines some aesthetic qualities, but beyond that doesn't do much. A Dunmer isn't instantly better with a sword, and an Imperial isn't instantly more personable. There do seem to be some innate, or mythical capabilities, but for the most part Race is a physical thing that doesn't define who you are, nor does it really define what skills or cultures you are exposed to. Race is What You Are.

 

At most, Race should give you a Power, and a Passive or two.

 

Ex;

 

Dunmer

• Power; Ancestor Guardian - Summon an Ancestor Spirit to fight alongside you
• Passive; Increased Fire Resistance

Argonian

• Power; Blessing of the Hist
• Passive; Water Breathing, Increased Poison & Disease resitance

 

 

 

Traits

 

 

Once upon a time, TES had these things called Advantages and Disadvantages. Those with a wider RPG background may recognise this system from other games, many of which frankly handle it like total shite. BUT, that doesn't mean the system is worthless. Whereas Race is What You Are, Traits are Who you are. Traits should offer a positive and negative version of the same things, allowing you to influence what your character is good at, what they're bad at, and a limited range of quirks. The problem with this is, particularly on disadvantages, having things that are generic enough that can apply for most of the gameplay, rather than highly specific situations (which unbalances most Advantave/Disadvantage systems).

 

Ex;

 

Superior Attribute; Increased max Attribute

Inferior Attribute; Decreased max Attribute

Light Step; Decreases Noise while moving

Flat Footed; Increases Noise while moving

Pious; Increase duration of Shrine Effects

Sacrilegious; Decreases the duration of Shrine Effects

 

Managing the system is simple enough. You have to maintain a value of 0. Positive bonuses cost points, negatives refund them. So if you take Superior Strength, it costs 1. Which means you then have to take some sort of negative to balance it out.

 

Birthsigns fit in here as pre-set packages of Traits which allow for quick selection, for those who don't want to go through the more time consuming process of doing it themselves.

 

 

 

Customization

 

 

 

TES's customization has always been wonky. It's high point in control was Oblivion, but that came at the cost of some of the ugliest face models in the history of gaming. Skyrim vastly improved on basic models, but lacked range of options. Basically, we need both.

 

I could ramble on about visual control for pages, but i'm not going to. Modeling it after games like Eve Online, Black Desert and Chronicles of Elyria is, i think, the way to go. Fallout 4 was a step in the right direction, but one thing that's necessary is maintaining the distinct looks of Skyrim. No more amorphous putty faces like we had in Oblivion.

 

 

 

 

Attributes

 

 

That's right. Attributes. I actually agree with Bethesda's position regarding Attributes which caused the change in Skyrim. The old system was garbage, and competed too much with the Skills in terms or importance. It was also generally nonsensical, and far too linked to Skill Bonuses to represent any sort of character diversity. The system WAS broken, and while i don't think it should have been abandoned entirely, i fully support the change to Perks for most of the variables.

 

Attributes shouldn't compete with Skills, nor should they really influence those Skills at base. Sword fighting isn't governed entirely by how strong you are, and even a relatively weak individual can be an expert swordsman. Rather, Attributes should be used to cover a wider range of awkward, non-skill interactions. Things like Cary Weight, Drug Withdrawl, how fast your skills progress etc.

 

There are a few different models that i COULD see being used...

 

Model A

 

 

The Fable Model

 

3 Attributes.

 

Body

• Health
• Stamina
• Speed
• Cary Weight
• Power Attack
• Stagger & Stagger Resit

Mind

• Skill Progression
• Critical Chance
• Reading
• 'Secret' sense
• Disposition

Spirit

• Magicka
• Spell Effects
• Spell Resist
• Resource Regeneration

 

It's the simplest, and frankly, the least interesting.

 

 

 

 

Model B

 

 

The standard-ish model. 6 Attributes, 2 for each paradigm.

 

Strength

• Power Attack bonus
• Carry weight
• Moving Objects
• Forcing doors
• Staggering
• Labour Rate

Endurance

• Stamina Penalty
• Stagger Resist
• Disease Resist
• Poison Resist
• Breath
• Labour Time

Dexterity

• Speed
• Fall Damage
• Attack Speed
• Stagger Recovery
• Cheating

Personality

• Disposition
• Follower bonuses
• Presence

Intelligence

• Spotting Cheaters
• Reading
• 'Secret' sense
• Critical Chance
• Skill Progression

Willpower

• Withdrawl
• Mental Resistance
• Effect Duration
• Injury Resistance

It gives some decently rounded options.

 

 

 

 

Model C

 

 

A little more divided and precise, featuring 9 Attributes.

 

Strength

• Power
• Carry Weight
• Stagger Chance
• Strength Challenges

Vitality

• Endurance
• Stamina Regeneration
• Subsistence
• Endurance Challenges

Resilience

• Resistance
• Exposure
• Stagger Resistance
• Tollerance Challenges

Dexterity

• Speed
• Stamina Impairment
• Stagger Recovery
• Agility Challenges

Personality

• Speech
• Disposition
• Social Challenges

Guile

• Deception
• Presence

Intelligence

• Magic
• Skill progression
• Critical Chance

Willpower

• Resistance
• Magicka Regeneration
• Effect Duration
• Will Challenge

Perception

• Deduction
• Warnings/Compass
• Deduction Challenges

It covers a wider range of interactions, and can be tied into more things more easily, but it's admittedly more to keep track of, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

 

 

 

You then have 2 basic models for increasing them... The standard model, in which you spend points (Perk Points being the most appropriate source) or a dynamic model that has them improve more like Skills.

 

The Dynamic model has an advantage of being able to accommodate decreases as well, which opens up some additional options in terms of poisons, magical effects and even just plain lethargy.

 

 

 

 

Skills

 

 

I think that, for the most part, Skyrim gets the basic idea right for Skills. A Skill should be distinct enough that it doesn't function in the same way as anything else, allowing them to shape how you play based on the skills you choose to develop. That means none of Morrowind's '4 skills all do the same thing with different items' nonsense. They need to be distinct, fit with the mentality of the Paradigm that drives them, and offer actual functional choices.

 

As an example; Gold denotes possible expanded options

 

Warrior

• 1-Handed Weapon
• 2-handed weapon
• Hand to Hand
• Armour
• Shield
• Tradecraft
• Husbandry
• Presence (tenious)

Thief

• Marksman
• Sneak
• Athletics
• Speechcraft
• Security
• Alchemy
• Wayfarer
• Thrown

Mage

• Destruction
• Restoration
• Alteration
• Illusion
• Conjuration
• Enchanting
• Mysticism
• Necromancy

 

 

 

Progression

 

 

Once again, i think Skyrim mostly got this right. I'm not a fan of the old system of Class-driven progression and Major/Minor skills (which i think was rather counter intuitive in it's nomenclature anyway). Every skill should contribute to your progression. Where i think Skyrim got it wrong, was that it didn't scale heavy enough. Higher levels should require considerably more 'Experience' and higher Skill-Levels should contribute considerably more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Items

 

 

Items are sort of the life blood of an RPG. There's no way around them. They're both spectacular and terrible, and their something we all love and hate in roughly equal measure.

 

Basics

 

 

Items don't have to serve a functional purpose, per se, but they should server a purpose. Clutter is great, because it's atmospheric, but having equipment, particularly weapons, that doesn't do anything beyond look different is something of a waste of time. Items also need to be able to be categorically grouped to allow for quality of life sorting. I think dividing things into basic 'Categories' and then subdividing them into more refined 'Types' would allow for ease of sorting without an overly complex (or borderline useless) interface.

 

Equipment

• Clothing
• Armour
• 'External' (decorative things like Cloaks and Robes)
• Weapons/Shield

Materials

Raw

• Ore
• Wood
• Fibres
• Hides
• Meat
• Fruit
• Vegetables
• Herbs
• Gemstones

Refined

• Ingots
• Planks
• Cloth
• Leather
• Food
• Drink
• Extracts
• Gems
• Parchment

Goods

• Tablewear
• Tools
• Remains
• Bottles
• Lighting
• Scrolls
• Books
• Keys
• Potions
• Ammunition
• Miscellaneous

 

Parts

• * More later *

 

 

 

Materials

 

 

As with most fantasy settings, TES uses a variety of different, exotic materials for different things. Whereas in the real world, most metal items are made of Copper or Iron alloys, TES has numerous other metals to call upon. Exotic woods, different hides from less conventional sources, etc. Reflecting the more diverse nature of crafting, and the separation of style from the materials used, is something that should be pressed. No more 'Dwemer Armour' all looking the same, embrace the variety of ESO and allow materials to be selected independently of the visual style.

 

This can be handled in a rather simple way. Dragon Age Inquisition has already shown it. Aplyting texture and colours across otherwise blank models, allowing you to give any armour the look of a particular material. Allowing you to make a suit of Elven Armour out of Orichalum, or Ebony. Separating Material from Shape in this way also adds some more sidewards mobility in equipment, rather than a straight, linear progression we've seen previously.

 

As an example;

 

Metals

Flint Iron Dwemer Quicksilver Daedric Ebony

Copper Steel Orichalum Ebony Voidstone

Bone Moonstone Mithril Glass

Chitin Bonemold Adamantium

 

The same basic principle can be applied to every type of material, offering similar, though slightly different characteristics for each material within a particular tier.

 

 

 

 

Crafting

 

 

This is where TES has an opportunity to dramatically expand it's range and customization. Crafting is becoming more and more popular in games, and there doesn't seem to be much of a limit to how deep people are interested in making things. Having a system that allows both for simple item creation, to hugely in-depth customization the likes of which you see in the Aetlier games. There's a couple of different ways that this can be tackled...

 

*pending expansion*

 

 

 

 

Armour

 

 

This is going to be a tenuous one. Astute readers may notice that i only put in one Armour skill above. There was a reason for that. I think the Light-Medium-Heavy armour dynamic is, in a word, stupid. That's right, stupid. It's an antiquated, fictitious concept that actually restricts what you can DO with armour as a concept and as a mechanic, which has overflow limitations to Combat, Magic, Mobility etc. By merging it into a more authentic and realistic, unified Armour system, you can dramatically increase both the versatility of Armour Aesthetics, as well as it's function.

 

Things like mobility hampering can be handled by total weight, noise generation based on the Materials used, and more importantly damage tolerance better diversified instead of relying on flat AC.

 

One of the biggest advantages that a merged Armour concept offers, however, is customization. Fallout 4 introduced a customization model that allows you to assemble equipable items, that change both in stats and appearance. It was a little limited in it's execution, and didn't expand the customization to Armour, but with a few conceptual tweaks it could easily be applied to expand the possible Armour looks into the billions.

 

 

 

Durability

 

 

Durability sucks. As a general mechanic, it's always been handled poorly. Your equipment doesn't break through wear and tear, it breaks because it's poorly made or used improperly. You don't repair weapons by slapping on parts from other weapons (one of the stupidest things i've ever seen in Fallout...).

 

The best proposal i've heard for dealing with Durability is to use Skyrim's improvement states, and have them degrade. You need to regularly sharpen your sword to keep it razor keen, or tighten straps on armour to keep it fitting well, after all.

 

In a general sense, the Durability characteristic forms the Warrior aspect of equipment management.

 

 

 

Familiarity

 

 

This is a creation of my own, and intended as another mechanism to slow the gear-progression curve. The basic premise is, as you continue to use a particular item, it becomes marginally superior to like-items, as your Character becomes used to it's particular qualities. We're talking about an era of hand crafting, and no matter how skilled they are, a Craftsman cannot reproduce, perfectly, the same thing over and over, so each piece of gear is going to have it's own peculiarities, and as you use something for a prolonged time, you get used to that items particular temperament.

 

This slows the curve by making switching gear less automatic. That Iron sword you're using may be better than that new Dwemer one you found, though you would know that with some practice the new one has greater potential. It discourages the quick loot-and-swap and trying out new gear instead of plunging head-long into another slaughter. This has an advantage of actually giving a mechanical function to having favourite pieces of gear.

 

Familiarity would serve as a Thief aspect for Equipment Management.

 

 

 

Enchanting

 

 

On the equipment side of things, I think Skyrim got Enchanting mostly right. More structured recipes, rather than the frankly sloppy free-form system previously... But there definitely needs to be greater variety in those enchantments. More of this in Crafting above.

 

Enchanting, of course, serves as the Mage component to Equipment Management.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Magic

 

 

 

Casting

 

 

 

 

 

Spell Effects

 

 

 

 

 

Summoning

 

 

 

 

 

Spellcrafting

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The World

 

 

 

Environment

 

 

 

 

 

Factions

 

 

 

 

 

People

 

 

 

 

 

Creatures

 

 

 

 

 

Leveling

 

 

 

 

 

Quests

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interaction

 

 

 

Mobility

 

 

 

 

 

Combat

 

 

 

 

 

Dialogue

 

 

 

 

 

Items

 

 

 

 

 

Work

 

 

 

 

 

Stealth

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other

 

 

 

Effects

 

 

 

 

 

Afflictions

 

 

 

 

 

Disposition

 

 

 

 

 

Resources

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

New Stuff

 

 

 

Settlement

 

 

 

 

 

Management

 

 

 

 

 

Breeding

 

 

 

 

 

Economy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*** I'll add to this soon, but i need to sleep, and my computer is likely to reboot because of an update while i'm out, and i don't want to lose what i've already typed...

Edited April 19, 2016 by Lachdonin