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Most irritating plothole in dawnguard?

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#11
TailAbNormal

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So, moving on from Serana, Harkon, and Isran, lets talk about

 

1.How did Velarica survive in the soul carin for so long without going insane or dying of starvation?

 

&

 

2.How come Akatosh doesn't abandon the dragonborn if he becomes a vampire like he did with Snow elf whats his face?



#12
ilikecheese1337

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Serana is a vampire being sought out by the vampires you're investigating and in posession of an elder scroll. She tells you nothing about herself other than she wants  you to take her somewhere. She exudes suspiciousness. Even if she wasn't a vampire and didn't acknowledge she had an elder scroll just implicitly trusting people like that is ridiculous. Even if you aren't as kill happy as I am the intelligent move is to take her to Isran, and if she complains that she doesn't feel comfortable when you get there inform her it's not really optional. After you've gathered some information and discovered her blood is the secret to destroying the world killing her is easier and more effective than going through the entire plot.

 

His objections last a brief conversation, even if she's absolutely necessary to the plot he doesn't order her put under guard or locked up he just sort of gruffly pays lip service to "I hate vampires" before. He also doesn't point out that killing her is the best possible course of action even if it's just for your paragon hero to say "no it shall not be."

 

 

So what are you supposed to do - murder her for being suspicious? Walk away, and never learn what's going on? If you try to take her to Isran, what happens when she just leaves on the journey? As for the Dawnguard killing her (even if they could) - she isn't the only Daughter of Coldharbour, but she's probably the only one willing to give the information and aid required to counter the prophecy. If Isran locked her up (with what resources? She's a Vampire Lord wizard and the Dawnguard's only just reformed) she wouldn't be able to help the effort against Harkon, and would probably become disinclined to talk. 

 

 

So, moving on from Serana, Harkon, and Isran, lets talk about

 

1.How did Velarica survive in the soul carin for so long without going insane or dying of starvation?

 

&

 

2.How come Akatosh doesn't abandon the dragonborn if he becomes a vampire like he did with Snow elf whats his face?

 

1. Potions of Blood and Vampiric Drain. 

 

2. The Dovahkiin isn't a priest of Akatosh, s/he just happens to have Akatosh's blood. As for why Auri-El/Akatosh didn't cure Vyrthur, the Divines' blessing can cure lesser diseases, like Sanguinare Vampiris, but they don't have the power to intervene enough to remove vampire or Vampire Lord status. If someone's bitten by a regular vampire, they have three days to cure the illness; bitten by a Vampire Lord, and they wake up a vampire.



#13
K9andSmith

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I had always attributed my Dragonsborn's immediate trust for Serana to her just enthralling them or at least trying to. I mean, that's what the vampires do right, they get people to do stuff for them with a charm and a wink? The whole quest line just stank of it to me. Why else would I have the option to be so nice to her and even when I'm mean to her I still do what she says. That would explain why Isran did not just kill her and why he let her tag along with the Dragonborn, because Serana was messing with his brain. Making him do want was good for her way even while he thought he was in charge. 

 

As for plot wholes, I think SeanzOz was pretty close, if you don't know want I am talking about search "foolhardy Skyrim part 9". Now even if the bow was not going to really blot out the sun completely, the plan never would have worked. Vampires overrun the whole of the continent during a cold war, with fire breathing lizards in the skies, give me a break. I might not like the Thalmor but they are more than capable of moping the floor with Harkon's lot.   



#14
shadowrulah

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So what are you supposed to do - murder her for being suspicious? Walk away, and never learn what's going on? If you try to take her to Isran, what happens when she just leaves on the journey? As for the Dawnguard killing her (even if they could) - she isn't the only Daughter of Coldharbour, but she's probably the only one willing to give the information and aid required to counter the prophecy. If Isran locked her up (with what resources? She's a Vampire Lord wizard and the Dawnguard's only just reformed) she wouldn't be able to help the effort against Harkon, and would probably become disinclined to talk. 

 

Then kill her or leave her description with every inkeeper and guard in Skyrim or do anything except help her. What would the vampire hunters do about the ancient and difficult to find Daedra blessed vampires? The dawnguard as it stands at that point isn't much smaller than the dawnguard strike force that sacks castle Volkihar, in a stand up fight they could take Serana. If she's disinclined to talk take those torture implements for a spin, maybe that's not your dragon borns style but it's something mine would do and it's apparently something Isran was ready to do to.



#15
ilikecheese1337

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As for plot wholes, I think SeanzOz was pretty close, if you don't know want I am talking about search "foolhardy Skyrim part 9". Now even if the bow was not going to really blot out the sun completely, the plan never would have worked. Vampires overrun the whole of the continent during a cold war, with fire breathing lizards in the skies, give me a break. I might not like the Thalmor but they are more than capable of moping the floor with Harkon's lot.   

 

Harkon just wanted to block the sun so that vampires could go about as they pleased. Whether or not he wanted to take over the world (which, if he were sane, he could do by enthralling a few choice figures), his plan wouldn't have been good for mortals.

 

 

 

 

Then kill her or leave her description with every inkeeper and guard in Skyrim or do anything except help her. What would the vampire hunters do about the ancient and difficult to find Daedra blessed vampires? The dawnguard as it stands at that point isn't much smaller than the dawnguard strike force that sacks castle Volkihar, in a stand up fight they could take Serana. If she's disinclined to talk take those torture implements for a spin, maybe that's not your dragon borns style but it's something mine would do and it's apparently something Isran was ready to do to.

 

 

Appearance doesn't mean all that much in a world of Illusion magic, and Serana doesn't need inns or civilisation; she just needs to get back to Castle Volkihar. If she does so, then the Dawnguard knows nothing about her, her plans or Castle Volkihar. The Dawnguard at that point is Isran, Durak, Celann, Agmaer and you: assuming you're unwilling to murder Serana out of sheer force of racism (and if you're willing, refer to my "psychopathic murder of Delphine" argument) then that's three soldiers and a farmer vs. a Vampire Lord who's just trying to leave. One bat trasformation could get her out.

 

As for torture, if the Dawnguard and Dragonborn were willing (which I'm not sure I buy), and if Serana were incapable of escaping, then Serana could always just lie or claim ignorance. Torture is not actually all that useful for information extraction, especially in open-ended questions (it's more useful for obtaining confessions), so there's nothing to stop Serana from saying that she has no idea what Harkon might be planning, especially considering that she's been underground since before the Alessian Empire. If she needs time to make up a story, that looks exactly the same as if she just took time to break.



#16
kradus

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Yep, Serana implies she doesn't know what's going on, but can take the dragonborn to someone who does. And Isran asked the dragonborn to gather information, and Serana was the first vampire who was willing to talk.



#17
KanesGhost

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Then kill her or leave her description with every inkeeper and guard in Skyrim or do anything except help her. What would the vampire hunters do about the ancient and difficult to find Daedra blessed vampires? The dawnguard as it stands at that point isn't much smaller than the dawnguard strike force that sacks castle Volkihar, in a stand up fight they could take Serana. If she's disinclined to talk take those torture implements for a spin, maybe that's not your dragon borns style but it's something mine would do and it's apparently something Isran was ready to do to.

 

 

Appearance doesn't mean all that much in a world of Illusion magic, and Serana doesn't need inns or civilisation; she just needs to get back to Castle Volkihar. If she does so, then the Dawnguard knows nothing about her, her plans or Castle Volkihar. The Dawnguard at that point is Isran, Durak, Celann, Agmaer and you: assuming you're unwilling to murder Serana out of sheer force of racism (and if you're willing, refer to my "psychopathic murder of Delphine" argument) then that's three soldiers and a farmer vs. a Vampire Lord who's just trying to leave. One bat trasformation could get her out.

 

As for torture, if the Dawnguard and Dragonborn were willing (which I'm not sure I buy), and if Serana were incapable of escaping, then Serana could always just lie or claim ignorance. Torture is not actually all that useful for information extraction, especially in open-ended questions (it's more useful for obtaining confessions), so there's nothing to stop Serana from saying that she has no idea what Harkon might be planning, especially considering that she's been underground since before the Alessian Empire. If she needs time to make up a story, that looks exactly the same as if she just took time to break.

 

I am not sure how you can consider it 'Racism' or the Dragonborn to be a psychopath to kill Serana on the spot?...Serana is a Vampire, that's not a Race, it's a Disease, plus what are the words you can speak to Durak when he finds you..."Killing Vampires, where do I sign up?"...a certain indication of exactly what you have in mind...killing Vampires...and Serana is a Vampire. The point is Vampires have been attacking Towns all over Skyrim, killing people, you join the Dawnguard to fight back and kill them, kill Vampires...Vampires are not known for anything but malicious and violent activity against the citizens of Tamirel, so why would you suddenly stop short at wiping another Vampire out? Why should you believe anything she says when she falls out of her coffin...she will say anything, she doesn't want to be destroyed...and THEN walk her home?... :blink: ...she's a Vampire!

 

The 'Torture'...there is a torture room in the Dawnguard Castle with signs of recent use, still bloody skeletal remains, as a Vamp hunting organization I think it's pretty clear who they have been torturing, the Dawnguard is obviously willing to torture.for information, etc...As for my Dovahkin, well his a Werewolf, thus REALLY does not like Vampires at all, he'd be more than willing to torture a Vampire. I am not convinced Serana would have a 'story', she expected to eventually be released by her Mother or one of her own kind, not a Vampire Hunter, she makes it clear she is surprised by your identity.



#18
KanesGhost

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Yep, Serana implies she doesn't know what's going on, but can take the dragonborn to someone who does. And Isran asked the dragonborn to gather information, and Serana was the first vampire who was willing to talk.

Serana is only willing to talk after you have taken her home and left her there, so why do you take her home in the first place? Walking Vampires home was not exactly what Isran had in mind, his interest was in why the Vampire activity at Dimhollow Crypt, by rights if you don't kill Serana straight off, you would take her back to the Dawnguard, not walk her home...that makes no sense.


Edited by KanesGhost, 27 December 2013 - 01:25 AM.


#19
AegisRunestone

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Then kill her or leave her description with every inkeeper and guard in Skyrim or do anything except help her. What would the vampire hunters do about the ancient and difficult to find Daedra blessed vampires? The dawnguard as it stands at that point isn't much smaller than the dawnguard strike force that sacks castle Volkihar, in a stand up fight they could take Serana. If she's disinclined to talk take those torture implements for a spin, maybe that's not your dragon borns style but it's something mine would do and it's apparently something Isran was ready to do to.

 

 

Appearance doesn't mean all that much in a world of Illusion magic, and Serana doesn't need inns or civilisation; she just needs to get back to Castle Volkihar. If she does so, then the Dawnguard knows nothing about her, her plans or Castle Volkihar. The Dawnguard at that point is Isran, Durak, Celann, Agmaer and you: assuming you're unwilling to murder Serana out of sheer force of racism (and if you're willing, refer to my "psychopathic murder of Delphine" argument) then that's three soldiers and a farmer vs. a Vampire Lord who's just trying to leave. One bat trasformation could get her out.

 

As for torture, if the Dawnguard and Dragonborn were willing (which I'm not sure I buy), and if Serana were incapable of escaping, then Serana could always just lie or claim ignorance. Torture is not actually all that useful for information extraction, especially in open-ended questions (it's more useful for obtaining confessions), so there's nothing to stop Serana from saying that she has no idea what Harkon might be planning, especially considering that she's been underground since before the Alessian Empire. If she needs time to make up a story, that looks exactly the same as if she just took time to break.

 

I am not sure how you can consider it 'Racism' or the Dragonborn to be a psychopath to kill Serana on the spot?...Serana is a Vampire, that's not a Race, it's a Disease, plus what are the words you can speak to Durak when he finds you..."Killing Vampires, where do I sign up?"...a certain indication of exactly what you have in mind...killing Vampires...and Serana is a Vampire. The point is Vampires have been attacking Towns all over Skyrim, killing people, you join the Dawnguard to fight back and kill them, kill Vampires...Vampires are not known for anything but malicious and violent activity against the citizens of Tamirel, so why would you suddenly stop short at wiping another Vampire out? Why should you believe anything she says when she falls out of her coffin...she will say anything, she doesn't want to be destroyed...and THEN walk her home?... :blink: ...she's a Vampire!

 

 

Yes, because Serana is extremely violent and attacks you on sight when you first meet her. [/sarcasm]

 

Seriously, I'm siding with "ilikecheese"; the arguments for Dawnguard having a bad storyline don't have solid ground. Just like I pointed out above--there's a flaw in your logic. You state vampires are vicious, attack on sight, etc. Serana does none of those things to the Dragonborn. Even if she is just dazed. She could have killed the Dragonborn in his/her sleep, but she doesn't.

 

That shows she's a vampire with a different type of personalty. The type that doesn't want to murder everyone in sight, unlike the Master Vampires you run into.


Edited by AegisRunestone, 27 December 2013 - 02:07 AM.


#20
KanesGhost

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Then kill her or leave her description with every inkeeper and guard in Skyrim or do anything except help her. What would the vampire hunters do about the ancient and difficult to find Daedra blessed vampires? The dawnguard as it stands at that point isn't much smaller than the dawnguard strike force that sacks castle Volkihar, in a stand up fight they could take Serana. If she's disinclined to talk take those torture implements for a spin, maybe that's not your dragon borns style but it's something mine would do and it's apparently something Isran was ready to do to.

 

 

Appearance doesn't mean all that much in a world of Illusion magic, and Serana doesn't need inns or civilisation; she just needs to get back to Castle Volkihar. If she does so, then the Dawnguard knows nothing about her, her plans or Castle Volkihar. The Dawnguard at that point is Isran, Durak, Celann, Agmaer and you: assuming you're unwilling to murder Serana out of sheer force of racism (and if you're willing, refer to my "psychopathic murder of Delphine" argument) then that's three soldiers and a farmer vs. a Vampire Lord who's just trying to leave. One bat trasformation could get her out.

 

As for torture, if the Dawnguard and Dragonborn were willing (which I'm not sure I buy), and if Serana were incapable of escaping, then Serana could always just lie or claim ignorance. Torture is not actually all that useful for information extraction, especially in open-ended questions (it's more useful for obtaining confessions), so there's nothing to stop Serana from saying that she has no idea what Harkon might be planning, especially considering that she's been underground since before the Alessian Empire. If she needs time to make up a story, that looks exactly the same as if she just took time to break.

 

I am not sure how you can consider it 'Racism' or the Dragonborn to be a psychopath to kill Serana on the spot?...Serana is a Vampire, that's not a Race, it's a Disease, plus what are the words you can speak to Durak when he finds you..."Killing Vampires, where do I sign up?"...a certain indication of exactly what you have in mind...killing Vampires...and Serana is a Vampire. The point is Vampires have been attacking Towns all over Skyrim, killing people, you join the Dawnguard to fight back and kill them, kill Vampires...Vampires are not known for anything but malicious and violent activity against the citizens of Tamirel, so why would you suddenly stop short at wiping another Vampire out? Why should you believe anything she says when she falls out of her coffin...she will say anything, she doesn't want to be destroyed...and THEN walk her home?... :blink: ...she's a Vampire!

 

 

Yes, because Serana is extremely violent and attacks you on sight when you first meet her. [/sarcasm]

 

Seriously, I'm siding with "ilikecheese"; the arguments for Dawnguard having a bad storyline don't have solid ground. Just like I pointed out above--there's a flaw in your logic. You state vampires are vicious, attack on sight, etc. Serana does none of those things to the Dragonborn. Even if she is just dazed. She could have killed the Dragonborn in his/her sleep, but she doesn't.

 

That shows she's a vampire with a different type of personalty. The type that doesn't want to murder everyone in sight, unlike the Master Vampires you run into.

 

Where did I state 'attack on sight'?







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