I'm experienced, not an idiot, and WTF is up with battle for Whiterun (even in bare bones vanilla)?

[notmyhome]

Did you try and have a look at that specific quest stage (I assume the "invisible line" should be the border betweeen two cells, where a quest scrip is updated) in Creation Kit? I can't think of what sort of game data could interrupt a GPU, but it's gotta come from somewhere.

[documn]

I have no explanations since you seem to have covered most of the bases. Here are just a couple things you can try if you haven't already:

 

Have you tried the console commands tcai or tai? Obviously it's no fun when the bad guys don't fight, but if your frame rate jumps back up when you turn the off the combat ai, then at least you'll learn something about this problem.

 

Have you checked your processor temperatures and cleaned out the dust recently?

[Katy420]

I have no explanations since you seem to have covered most of the bases. Here are just a couple things you can try if you haven't already:

 

Have you tried the console commands tcai or tai? Obviously it's no fun when the bad guys don't fight, but if your frame rate jumps back up when you turn the off the combat ai, then at least you'll learn something about this problem.

 

Have you checked your processor temperatures and cleaned out the dust recently?

 

Yes, I have tried all the console commands I could think of. Those ones don't help, they do nothing (I mean they do their job, it doesn't help the performance). The only thing that ever has gotten me unstuck is fast travelling away from the battle (deserting), then using console commands to go to the next stage in the quest. But at the next stage they won't accept you because you ran from the battle, and the whole war is pretty much screwed.

 

Yes I take pretty good care of my computer, it's not dirty or anything like that. I run bi weekly defrags. I don't have like an obscene pileup of crap files, or viruses or anything like that.

 

Did you try and have a look at that specific quest stage (I assume the "invisible line" should be the border betweeen two cells, where a quest scrip is updated) in Creation Kit? I can't think of what sort of game data could interrupt a GPU, but it's gotta come from somewhere.

 

 

Yeah, the invisible line is a cell. But no I don't use the Creation Kit, I'm not a modder myself. Should I try it just for this? I'm moderately techy, but I haven't ever messed with it.

 

I KNOW RIGHT! But where the hell could it be coming from in a vanilla run??? I've even tried it without the Beth DLC, just the base vanilla game. And ENB specifically deals with GPU v. CPU usage, so I just now tried it with only those two things-- the vanilla game, no DLC, no other mods, and ENB. EXACT SAME RESULT. I have NO CLUE where this could be coming from.

 

If I have to buy another damn copy I'm gonna be so pissed. I already bought the LE for PC and Xbox, for over $100 total (it was more expensive when I bought them). Sure $30 isn't like the end of the world huge deal. But I really object to the principal. Not to mention the whole reason I even bought it for Xbox to begin with is because of this issue, I assumed my computer just couldn't handle it (at the time I had a weaker GPU), so I figured oh well, let's play on the console. If it turns out I could have saved myself all that time and money by buying another one.... UGH.

[notmyhome]

So... you only did the re-installs from disc?

If your internet connection would suffer it, you could have steam delete all game data and re-download EVERYTHING.

Really, as someone who has download volume limitations myself, giving such advice makes my heart bleed, but you do sound quite desperate.

 

EDIT: CK is free, and *can* be useful even if you're not gonna make mods yourself. E.G. having a look at what a mod does, to determine if it will clash with something different. So why not just get it?

Edited May 15, 2014 by notmyhome

[Katy420]

I'm downloading the CK now, I figure it's worth a shot, and youtubing how to use it. Hopefully that will at least give me a better idea what's wrong.

 

Yes, I did do the reinstalls from the disc. I don't like to use Steam unless I have to but it looks like I'm gonna have to : (

[Deleted5770650User]

 

Ya I know about the 16 core amd server CPus, but I was stick to CPU that were aimed at end users. No I am not sure that there were 3 core CPUs so I threw that in there.

 

To me the OP is acting like s/he knows it all and wont consider trying what is suggested or adding the information that is asked for by people.

Not only that but Nvidia Optimus is for notebooks/laptops only and was not used in desktops.

OP as you don't seem willing to add your processor information I am going to assume as I have no other choice that is is a really old single core AMD and that is does not meet minimum system requirements.

 

That's what I thought too!! (Optimus was just some laptop GPU salespitch crap) Trust me, it's true. I couldn't run GTA reliably, buuut. Once I updated my drivers as reccomended for optimus users, it fixed that issue in that particular game. And again, with Hialgo for Skyrim, the optimus fix worked for me. The author told me it "sometimes" is in desktops, which was news to me. But again, every time I have issues, if I use an optimus fix it works. I have to assume it uses optimus.

 

I'm not buying another Nvidia card until I can be sure what I'm getting into, though. Seriously, I know you're convinced I'm an idiot but you are wrong sir.

 

Also kind of an a**hole. Sorry. But the processor is not the problem. Clearly. I RUN THE WHOLE GAME FINE. It's an issue with this one stage of this one quest, this one particular scene. I didn't refuse to take your advice, you didn't give me any. But the only advice that HAD been given to me was by another poster-- and I am ALREADY DOING THAT STUFF (using SSME and ENB). Not to mention I specifically said in my original post that I was looking for solutions other than graphics performance, and the first person to suggest something aside from that I DID take his advice, which was very helpful. I DO refuse your silly epeen-challenge about my machine, as if you KNOW my processor doesn't meet minimum specs, and I DO refuse your silly epeen-challenge as to my gender. Also that's an ironic thing to say, pretending you know something you don't, when you're complaining about NOT KNOWING my processor, while also complaining about me "acting like I know it all".

 

Try and be kind to your fellow humans.

 

 

I am not trying to be rude, sorry if you take it that way.

 

 

That's what I thought too!! (Optimus was just some laptop GPU salespitch crap) Trust me, it's true.

 

I am not saying or have said it is not true

 

 

I couldn't run GTA reliably, buuut. Once I updated my drivers as reccomended for optimus users, it fixed that issue in that particular game.

 

Here you leave out the version of GTA. I am going to ASSUME you are talking about GTA4. Well GTA 4 has issues on a lot of PCs mine included. If you want to know more about my PC you need to first drop the epeen attitude. You can assume all you want about what my PC is.

 

 

And again, with Hialgo for Skyrim, the optimus fix worked for me. The author told me it "sometimes" is in desktops, which was news to me. But again, every time I have issues, if I use an optimus fix it works. I have to assume it uses optimus.

 

You assume it is optimums, but In order to really figure this out people need more information about you system. AS I said before with out you giving the asked for need information no one can give good advice as anyone will have to assume and almost certainly be wrong with their assumptions.

 

 

 

Also kind of an a**hole. Sorry. But the processor is not the problem. Clearly. I RUN THE WHOLE GAME FINE.

 

Well in my definition the whole game includes the battle for Whiterun where you do have problems, and to me that says you cant play the whole game fine.

 

 

It's an issue with this one stage of this one quest, this one particular scene. I didn't refuse to take your advice, you didn't give me any. But the only advice that HAD been given to me was by another poster-- and I am ALREADY DOING THAT STUFF (using SSME and ENB).

 

Correct I have not really tried to give advice as I need more information to give good advice, and I don't like giving bad advice.

 

 

Not to mention I specifically said in my original post that I was looking for solutions other than graphics performance, and the first person to suggest something aside from that I DID take his advice, which was very helpful.

 

I have never been talking about Graphics here. You need to understand that a processor can be the cause of graphic slowdowns, but again with out more information no one truly know what may be the cause and can only guess based on assumptions.

 

 

I DO refuse your silly epeen-challenge about my machine, as if you KNOW my processor doesn't meet minimum specs,

 

Correct I do not know what you processor is and thus as I said I have to ASSUME what it is then I told you what I was assuming it is.

 

 

and I DO refuse your silly epeen-challenge as to my gender.

 

I never brought gender into this. I used s/he as I have no idea what you gender and in my opinion it is nicer to say s/he as most people I know use s/he to shorten she or he. Would you prefer that I had just assumed male and use he rather then wording it so that so that id could include both?

 

 

Also that's an ironic thing to say, pretending you know something you don't, when you're complaining about NOT KNOWING my processor,

 

 

Correct I don't know what it is thus why I keep asking, as I said I also said in the quoted post. I Said in both the quoted post and this one I assumed what it was as I have no other way of telling. I then added what my assumption was, fully expecting it to be wrong. but I added it to try and show you that can not guess what it is, and with out knowing because you wont tell, I can not give good advice.

 

 

while also complaining about me "acting like I know it all".

 

I was not trying to act like a know it all. In fact like in my quoted post I said i was assuming. If i need to assume something I clearly don't know it. You are also acting like a know it all, and I don't see the need for it.

 

As this thread is a request for technical help please read http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1592053-how-to-ask-for-help/

 

EDIT

In my first post I tried to tell you that, The battle for Whiterun does effect my performance as well, I know what causes it for me, and I see no obvious reason for it to happen but when one of the fireballs lands close enough the performance really drops while what is going on. This same issue happens to a much lesser extent while fighting Alduin and the game uses the same fireballs. For me it is those fireballs that cause the issue.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Guest

[Lord Garon]

That battle is notorious for some script lag, made somewhat worse by CW mods. You said you didn't tweak your ini files "unecessarily". Did you raise ugrids (will spawn additional, far away scripts), enable Papyrus logging (any errors here will cause massive log file spam), or change any [Papyrus] block settings?

 

This is one case where I might advocate giving scripts some additional processing time. If scripts can't complete on a timely basis, you can encounter thread lock conditions as one thread waits for another to complete, while that one is waiting for another to complete, ...

 

Here's my [Papyrus] block from Skyrim.ini with a couple notes:

 

[Papyrus]
fUpdateBudgetMS=1.2 ; These are milliseconds. Creep up .4 or .6 at a time and see if your lag is affected
fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=1.2 ; ditto. Note that just 2.4 is DOUBLE the vanilla setting. I would not exceed 6.0
fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=800.0 ;Script setup time on new cell loads. Try up to 2000.0
iMinMemoryPageSize=128 ; Don't change the next 3 unless you understand WHY they need changing
iMaxMemoryPageSize=512 ; Changing these 3 is likely to cause issues, not solve them
iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=76800
bEnableLogging=0 ; Disable logging in case log spam is happening during the battle
bEnableTrace=0 ; ditto
bLoadDebugInformation=0 ; ditto
bEnableProfiling=0 ; ditto

 

If you set ugrids>5, use a revert back process (or your savegames won't load) and try the battle at ugrids=5

 

If you had logging enabled, check your logs for errors, might give a clue. If not, try enabling logging to see what they might tell you.

 

Your GPU processing drop could be a CPU/script issue; if it can't construct a scene graph, it can't send render data to the video card.

 

EDIT: formatting

Edited May 15, 2014 by Lord Garon

[Katy420]

That battle is notorious for some script lag, made somewhat worse by CW mods. You said you didn't tweak your ini files "unecessarily". Did you raise ugrids (will spawn additional, far away scripts), enable Papyrus logging (any errors here will cause massive log file spam), or change any [Papyrus] block settings?

 

This is one case where I might advocate giving scripts some additional processing time. If scripts can't complete on a timely basis, you can encounter thread lock conditions as one thread waits for another to complete, while that one is waiting for another to complete, ...

 

Here's my [Papyrus] block from Skyrim.ini with a couple notes:

 

[Papyrus]

fUpdateBudgetMS=1.2 ; These are milliseconds. Creep up .4 or .6 at a time and see if your lag is affected

fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=1.2 ; ditto. Note that just 2.4 is DOUBLE the vanilla setting. I would not exceed 6.0

fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=800.0 ;Script setup time on new cell loads. Try up to 2000.0

iMinMemoryPageSize=128 ; Don't change the next 3 unless you understand WHY they need changing

iMaxMemoryPageSize=512 ; Changing these 3 is likely to cause issues, not solve them

iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=76800

bEnableLogging=0 ; Disable logging in case log spam is happening during the battle

bEnableTrace=0 ; ditto

bLoadDebugInformation=0 ; ditto

bEnableProfiling=0 ; ditto

 

If you set ugrids>5, use a revert back process (or your savegames won't load) and try the battle at ugrids=5

 

If you had logging enabled, check your logs for errors, might give a clue. If not, try enabling logging to see what they might tell you.

 

Your GPU processing drop could be a CPU/script issue; if it can't construct a scene graph, it can't send render data to the video card.

 

EDIT: formatting

 

Yes, the battle is notorious for being a ROYAL PAIN IN THE ASS, at least in my house. But just to be clear, I have the same result with or without mods of any kind, CW or otherwise (including performance boosting mods and Beth DLC). I know CW mods in general are pretty finnicky, they're the first things I disabled to test this. It's bizarre to me this is happening in the vanilla game-- it wasn't bizarre years ago when I bought it and had a weaker system, but now.... SO PERPLEXED >:( (Edit, no I didn't raise ugrids)

 

I am trying you ini tweaks right now, though! Thanks for being constructive!

Edited May 16, 2014 by Katy420

[Katy420]

ZOMG!

 

What the hell happened to my papyrus settings?

 

Thanks so much, I know these are right, they look familiar, but I haven't been looking at this. Why would my papyrus block be weird from a fresh physical install?????

 

My budgets were both at 800? WTF? Like they're copying the PostLoadUpadte line? I'm almost sure this is what was wrong, but I'll have to play through it and update later.

 

THANK YOU!

 

(Seriously I swear I didn't do this, I do exactly TWO things to my .ini, bInvalidateOlderFiles=1, and bFloatPointRenderTagret=1-- plus over the past week I've reinstalled at least 8 times.. Edit, also add Hirestexturepac.bsa 1&2 to archives, as per better males author. But that's it I swear)

Edited May 16, 2014 by Katy420

[GrommashHellscream]

So is it working now?