An odd Dead Money request

[devinpatterson]

O man weird I typed a long ol response and its not here...

 

Ya I've started on it, tho my mod doesn't necessarily enhance story, though since it covers the DLC anyways, may as well. I'd be happy to work with you, did you have anything specific in mind for LR? I haven't really done much except maybe 7 interior and some slight edits. Completed changes for LR so far:

Sorry for the late response.

 

Good deal, tonight I'll write up some info and links for a very minimal LR post (so I don't flood this thread with irrelevant info related to LR) with links to other threads with on going discussions re: LR.

 

In ref to DM;

 

I think (although not original) a holo companion (backpack projector) is a popular idea. It has some support via a cut ending (making a deal with Elijah which resulted in an expansion of the cloud and holograms into the fringes of the Mojave).

 

I was previously working with another author on a pre-DM mod (The Legend Of The Sierra Madre) that allowed the player to experience the Sierria Madre as a private detective (pitched as a noir style story line) before the nukes fell. The projects in hibernation while I'm trying to get back up to speed on modding again. Although the thread is bare, we have about 140 pages of PMs with ideas. There are numerous areas of expansion that carry over to the current DM in our post apocalyptic world. We planned on releasing the new areas as expansions that were unlocked based on actions the player performed in the past. I think we could share some resources in that area as well (if nothing more than ideas/concepts). I'll expand and detail some of the info later this evening.

[devinpatterson]

Also cloud residue grenades might be a handy little jury rigged item to craft. I won't do much while your in the Sierria Madre, but it will be fun to toss about outside the DLC. Here is a thread on it, but I'll post the relevant pics/vids below to save time;

 

 

 

 

Well did a quick cut and paste (we can change more stuff if we need the grenade to be even more distinctive than the nuka grenade) on the nuka grenade. I figured the nuka being the only constructable grenade was probably the model to use (essentially uses a tin can). Pic;

 

 

 

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u404/devinlpatterson/FONV%20Mods-works%20in%20progress/ScreenShot5_zpsc744634c.jpg

 

 

 

But the smoke grenade effect is weeeeeeaaaaaaak :sad: It doesn't do jack. Pic;

 

 

 

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u404/devinlpatterson/FONV%20Mods-works%20in%20progress/ScreenShot0_zpsa88d76da.jpg

 

 

 

You can barely see it in the pic.

 

We can try other nifs but they probably aren't going to look decent. Luckily there is another option via a particle effect. Here is one I attached to a weapon quite a while back. Something like it, but on a larger scale and crimson might just do the trick. Video;

 

 

 

http://youtu.be/UAoX5H8PO7o

 

 

 

If we have this volume of smoke coming off the grenade and pair it with a toxic cloud, it just might do the trick. Here is a pic of the smallest toxic cloud 256. Pic;

 

 

 

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u404/devinlpatterson/FONV%20Mods-works%20in%20progress/ScreenShot10_zps114e6a74.jpg

 

 

 

It's also possible to use a staged timer to have it start out with a small toxic cloud (256) expand in a few seconds to a medium cloud (512), then the largest (1024) then at some point the timer would reverse the process. I think that would be the best choice for outside where hte cloud would naturally disperse. Possibly indoors it could last much longer.

 

I'm not sure when I'll be able to crank it out, since I have a lot of requests backlogged, but this post and the previous one sort of lay out my basic strategy.

 

 

[senterpat]

Ya, I could even set up the AI, so that the robot would constantly be trying to keep maximum distance from anything the hologram is attacking, tho with VATS this would be easily counterable I guess, so may make them VATS immune. There are a few other factors I think would help balance it, for one, the regular holograms can't chase the player indefinitly, they can only get so far from the holo emitter before it stops chasing, so prolly something keeping them from straying to far from the robot. This may actually be a bit complex, but I think it would make for some interesting encounters.

 

That's a good point, the cloud is rare, but the antitoxin could affect animal poisoning too, or even innoculate the player, preventing any poison from entering the system for an alloted time. Like with the Chaff Grenades, I'd prefer any items I add to have usefulness beyond the DLC. Since the anti toxing wouldn't be readily available, players would only really benefit from it if they planned ahead. But then again with the gas masks, it may be overkill. Ehhhh I prolly wont do it.

 

Well I've got the spear trap and fire trap all set up, the fireaxe trap will only be able to be hidden over doors, swinging into the doorway when activated. It's relatively simple, a string holds it up, when triggered it releases the head, gravity does the rest. The spear trap is on a big ass crossbow looking thing, it kinda stands out, as a result, the damage will be very high. Both can be disarmed, haven't really gotten that part done yet, need to figure out the requirements for disarming them, I was thinking like a STR requirement to pull down the axe, and repair to disable the crossbow trap.

 

The PC being able to clean the bear trap fist is a really neat idea, will definitely be adding that in.

 

If your into the survival aspect of the game in general, I'd recommend Imps More Complex Needs, it adds additional values to foods, so instead of hunger you have nutrients, protein, and calories, makes it harder to find the proper balance of foods.

 

The thing about using a spore carrier type encounter is that each of them has to be hand placed, to make sure they are properly hidden. I much prefer dynamic spawns, for two reasons, 1: It's easier. 2: Increased replayability, knowing where everything is every time you play can get dull. Granted that the no compass tick helps you not notice them, but that can be done with anything by setting it to unconscious. Do you think these creatures should be hostile towards ghost people? I was thinking of them just being neutral towards each other, kind of a one with the gas kinda deal.

 

So I'll probably end up doing a mantis based creature. Small, attacking in groups, colored redish, maybe even a bit translucent, helping them hide in the cloud.

 

@Devin

Looked into that Legend of Sierra Madre thread, seems like a really cool concept, the black and white, the detective style gameplay, definitely something I would play, if you need any help with stuff for that mod, I'd be down to help out as I could.

 

I thought about the holo companion awhile back actually, was gonna make it so you could rip out the holo emitters, but a holo companion would be soooooo unbalanced lol. High DPS and the ability to draw enemy fire, while not getting hurt. Would have to balance it somehow, maybe make it so the holo requires energy cells, or the emitter is a weapon that the player has to be firing for the hologram to be show up, preventing the player from attacking as well. I dunno, but something would have to be done to prevent the player from being godlike.

 

The cloud grenades are a pretty neat idea, but there'd have to be someway to balance it. Since the NPCs wouldn't avoid the cloud, it could be abused i think. Maybe set up a timer that modifies their confidence after a bit, once they realize they are breathing in poison causing them to flee.

Edited December 8, 2014 by senterpat

[lordzues40]

not just for DM but the game and all DLC's but does anyone else feel that "traps" in general are not dangerous enough??? I mean in real life step on a land mine? = DEAD! Get shot with a shotgun point blank? =DEAD! Get hit in the face with a 150 to 200lb I beam = DEAD! just for immersion why not make the traps more Deadlyer. i mean that would add to the difficulty quite a bit. i cant count the times i would be running from the cloud or speaker to run through a trapped door and nothing but a lil damage. i mean like the convo with Dean hes rigged your chair with explosives= "so what wont kill me". if traps were one hit killers that would be quite difficult. just a thought.

 

 

Any Feed Back as to why this would not be a good idea or good idea?

[DeeVee74]

I don't know how hard you RP, but my Courier is not a chem user, and after going through DM with this mod on, I was hooked to three different chems I was using out of necessity.

I was also starving, tired, and chugging dirty water wherever I found it. Dunno if it's what you're looking for but it definitely improved my DM experience:

http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/57116/?

[senterpat]

@ lordzeus40 - I agree that traps are weak, but upping the damage of traps in general is beyond the scope of this mod, though I could potentially roll that into my Monster Mod, most traps damage is controlled via scripts, so it'd be pretty easy to add and MCM configure menu. The traps I am adding however, are higher damage in general. I think that it would increase the challenge tho... I don't know, I could make a custom version of all of the traps and up the damage for Dead Money areas.

 

@DeeVee74 - I RP pretty hard, but I use a ton of chems, and I'm usually a drug dealer of sorts hence my CAM mod :p

Ya that mod does look like it would increase the challenge, however same issue as the above, modifying the stimpack is beyond the scope of this mod. I'm not trying to change anything in the base game, except for adding in DLC weapon and items to the leveled lists where appropriate. I could, remove stimpacks from the DLC entirely, and replace it with a chem that substitutes for them, but I don't really care for that idea either. I also wouldn't want to modify the stimpacks because that would create conflicts with a number of popular mods, including my own.

[Haluesen]

 

O man weird I typed a long ol response and its not here...

 

Ya I've started on it, tho my mod doesn't necessarily enhance story, though since it covers the DLC anyways, may as well. I'd be happy to work with you, did you have anything specific in mind for LR? I haven't really done much except maybe 7 interior and some slight edits. Completed changes for LR so far:

Sorry for the late response.

 

Good deal, tonight I'll write up some info and links for a very minimal LR post (so I don't flood this thread with irrelevant info related to LR) with links to other threads with on going discussions re: LR.

 

In ref to DM;

 

I think (although not original) a holo companion (backpack projector) is a popular idea. It has some support via a cut ending (making a deal with Elijah which resulted in an expansion of the cloud and holograms into the fringes of the Mojave).

 

I was previously working with another author on a pre-DM mod (The Legend Of The Sierra Madre) that allowed the player to experience the Sierria Madre as a private detective (pitched as a noir style story line) before the nukes fell. The projects in hibernation while I'm trying to get back up to speed on modding again. Although the thread is bare, we have about 140 pages of PMs with ideas. There are numerous areas of expansion that carry over to the current DM in our post apocalyptic world. We planned on releasing the new areas as expansions that were unlocked based on actions the player performed in the past. I think we could share some resources in that area as well (if nothing more than ideas/concepts). I'll expand and detail some of the info later this evening.

 

 

Just want to say, that whole Legend of the Sierra Madre thing sounds amazing. I would love to play through something like that! And while the ideas of a holo companion and cloud grenades are cool, and my current character would adore those grenades, I'm mostly looking for things to up the challenge in the DLC, while those would make it easier. I do encourage the creation of those mods and would at least download the cloud grenades, but for now I'm looking for ways to raise difficulty.

 

Ya, I could even set up the AI, so that the robot would constantly be trying to keep maximum distance from anything the hologram is attacking, tho with VATS this would be easily counterable I guess, so may make them VATS immune. There are a few other factors I think would help balance it, for one, the regular holograms can't chase the player indefinitly, they can only get so far from the holo emitter before it stops chasing, so prolly something keeping them from straying to far from the robot. This may actually be a bit complex, but I think it would make for some interesting encounters.

 

That's a good point, the cloud is rare, but the antitoxin could affect animal poisoning too, or even innoculate the player, preventing any poison from entering the system for an alloted time. Like with the Chaff Grenades, I'd prefer any items I add to have usefulness beyond the DLC. Since the anti toxing wouldn't be readily available, players would only really benefit from it if they planned ahead. But then again with the gas masks, it may be overkill. Ehhhh I prolly wont do it.

 

Well I've got the spear trap and fire trap all set up, the fireaxe trap will only be able to be hidden over doors, swinging into the doorway when activated. It's relatively simple, a string holds it up, when triggered it releases the head, gravity does the rest. The spear trap is on a big ass crossbow looking thing, it kinda stands out, as a result, the damage will be very high. Both can be disarmed, haven't really gotten that part done yet, need to figure out the requirements for disarming them, I was thinking like a STR requirement to pull down the axe, and repair to disable the crossbow trap.

 

The PC being able to clean the bear trap fist is a really neat idea, will definitely be adding that in.

 

If your into the survival aspect of the game in general, I'd recommend Imps More Complex Needs, it adds additional values to foods, so instead of hunger you have nutrients, protein, and calories, makes it harder to find the proper balance of foods.

 

The thing about using a spore carrier type encounter is that each of them has to be hand placed, to make sure they are properly hidden. I much prefer dynamic spawns, for two reasons, 1: It's easier. 2: Increased replayability, knowing where everything is every time you play can get dull. Granted that the no compass tick helps you not notice them, but that can be done with anything by setting it to unconscious. Do you think these creatures should be hostile towards ghost people? I was thinking of them just being neutral towards each other, kind of a one with the gas kinda deal.

 

So I'll probably end up doing a mantis based creature. Small, attacking in groups, colored redish, maybe even a bit translucent, helping them hide in the cloud.

 

@Devin

Looked into that Legend of Sierra Madre thread, seems like a really cool concept, the black and white, the detective style gameplay, definitely something I would play, if you need any help with stuff for that mod, I'd be down to help out as I could.

 

I thought about the holo companion awhile back actually, was gonna make it so you could rip out the holo emitters, but a holo companion would be soooooo unbalanced lol. High DPS and the ability to draw enemy fire, while not getting hurt. Would have to balance it somehow, maybe make it so the holo requires energy cells, or the emitter is a weapon that the player has to be firing for the hologram to be show up, preventing the player from attacking as well. I dunno, but something would have to be done to prevent the player from being godlike.

 

The cloud grenades are a pretty neat idea, but there'd have to be someway to balance it. Since the NPCs wouldn't avoid the cloud, it could be abused i think. Maybe set up a timer that modifies their confidence after a bit, once they realize they are breathing in poison causing them to flee.

 

I still don't know the actual limits of modding, so I don't know how hard that robot hologram emitter would be to make. But so far it is the most interesting enemy idea. I feel like the holograms really needed more representation in there.

 

Yay for the traps! I could imagine getting hit by something like those would seriously mess with an unwary Courier. I love it. :laugh: I think that those would probably be right, Strength for the axe and repair for the spear trap. I would imagine it would be disarmed at the trigger? Or would the Courier have to avoid the trigger somehow, and go to the trap itself to disarm it?

 

Unarmed players will love that. The bear trap fist was one of my favorite things about Dead Money. No game ever game me the chance to punch someone with a bear claw before. :happy:

 

I have considered IMCN before, I just worry that it will be too complex for me. :sweat: I'm all for things to ramp up survival aspects, but if I can't understand how to play with them right then that takes something away from it. I may still give it another shot, but not currently when in the process of playing a long-standing character that still has a lot to do.

 

Hmm good point. A well done look and maybe that thing for no compass ticks if you could. I agree, random spawns do make things more fun. :yes: And mantises in general are pretty interesting enemies. Though I wonder about the making them hostile towards the Ghost People...I guess it would depend on whether that adds anything to the situation. I don't think you could intentionally lead one group into fighting the other once you have their attention. It would mostly just mean that at some random time you might stumble upon a fight. Which would at least be kinda funny. I dunno really, hostile to each other or not both have interesting uses.

 

not just for DM but the game and all DLC's but does anyone else feel that "traps" in general are not dangerous enough??? I mean in real life step on a land mine? = DEAD! Get shot with a shotgun point blank? =DEAD! Get hit in the face with a 150 to 200lb I beam = DEAD! just for immersion why not make the traps more Deadlyer. i mean that would add to the difficulty quite a bit. i cant count the times i would be running from the cloud or speaker to run through a trapped door and nothing but a lil damage. i mean like the convo with Dean hes rigged your chair with explosives= "so what wont kill me". if traps were one hit killers that would be quite difficult. just a thought.

 

 

Any Feed Back as to why this would not be a good idea or good idea?

 

I remember there was a mod for Skyrim that made all traps much deadlier. There might be something similar for NV I think. I mostly just focus on wanting DM harder because it feels like it should be that special challenge. It's advertised as something almost like a survival horror after all. I have other things to raise the difficulty in the main game. But I do think that deadlier traps is at least an idea that could be fun to many others. :happy:

 

Funny thing with the Dean example though, I was thinking about that earlier. My character has a lot of focus on explosives and fairly good defenses, including that one that gives 25 DT against all explosions. In a fight where I was surrounded, I literally just dropped a plasma grenade at my feet and then walked away from the blast surrounded by bodies. It was certainly interesting, and makes me want to laugh at Dean's little shaped charge. :cool:

 

I don't know how hard you RP, but my Courier is not a chem user, and after going through DM with this mod on, I was hooked to three different chems I was using out of necessity.

I was also starving, tired, and chugging dirty water wherever I found it. Dunno if it's what you're looking for but it definitely improved my DM experience:

http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/57116/?

 

This character is pretty vicious, darkly pragmatic, and in general enjoys chems. I always try to deal with the addictions though as soon as I can. So I imagine I may have a similar problem with DM. Except that even if enemies are made tougher and challenging (which isn't so hard to do), the other "threats" in DM really aren't. I can disarm every trap, deal with every speaker or radio easily until the end, and the pockets of Cloud only make it harder to explore this place more fully. Those are what I want changed more importantly. I just don't know how. :unsure:

 

I use that mod! I haven't tried it in DM yet but it certainly has changed my experience with this character. I use cover much more often. :tongue: And run a lot too. And made survival important. Hasn't stopped me from occasionally needing to use a stim though, and then after those fights scarfing down food and water and atomic cocktails. So it has changed my gaming experience for the better.

[senterpat]

The robot holoemitter thing would prolly take me maybe an hour to rig up, I already have a ton of resources made for my monster mod, so I can just use one of the Eyebot based models, throw an emitter on it, and then script the distances and ai package swaps. I just have to actually get it done :p

 

They'd be like the shotgun traps, if you can avoid the trigger you can disable it, or you can disable the trigger and then disable it. If you do set off the spear trap you'll lose the option to salvage the spear.

 

There's a new unique Bear Trap Fist I made, it's all toothy, made it look like a mouth :p poorly. But a clean version would be a pretty simple retexture.

 

Ya, it's kinda hard to figure out how to handle the new creatures AI... It would be strange to see them just sort of hanging out with the ghost people. Although maybe not, don't see why they couldn't keep pets. Oh ya cuz they crazy. I dunno, I'll prolly end up having them hostile, but more carefully place the spawning points.

[DeeVee74]

Yay! You're using my mod! :D

I thought it was neat. I should probably finish it.

 

On the Legendary Ghost: why not have him follow the player around?

Sort of like Nemesis, but way more irritating.

Not like how Legion Assassins will beeline to you from their birth canals even though you're dicking around four kliks from the edge of nowhere, in sneak, on a raft, in space, but some sound will play and you'll know it just zoned in behind you. Make its breathing distinct and you hear doors bang open or whatever, then it patrols around for you.

Then, every time you knock it down and back off a limb, it gets back up some time later.

You gotta use some special weapon to kill it or you have to trap it somewhere or douse it in acid. Or ONLY disintegration will do the job. Or bring it back to the Mojave and kill it there somehow.

Something.

 

Regards,

Commander Vague

[senterpat]

Yay! You're using my mod! :D

I thought it was neat. I should probably finish it.

 

On the Legendary Ghost: why not have him follow the player around?

Sort of like Nemesis, but way more irritating.

Not like how Legion Assassins will beeline to you from their birth canals even though you're dicking around four kliks from the edge of nowhere, in sneak, on a raft, in space, but some sound will play and you'll know it just zoned in behind you. Make its breathing distinct and you hear doors bang open or whatever, then it patrols around for you.

Then, every time you knock it down and back off a limb, it gets back up some time later.

You gotta use some special weapon to kill it or you have to trap it somewhere or douse it in acid. Or ONLY disintegration will do the job. Or bring it back to the Mojave and kill it there somehow.

Something.

 

Regards,

Commander Vague

 

Ya, I was considering something like that at one point, something but instead of having to kill it and it coming back to life, I was thinking more of an ambush, then once his health is reduced a certain amount, he disappears, and runs off to be encountered later. This will most likely happen in the scavenge hunt cave, basically he'll just harass you anytime your distracted.