Transformation Spells - Balance?

[danshive]

When the creation kit comes out, I'm scheming to add a whole set of spells that allow for the transforming of enemies. Temporarily turn a foe into a rabbit, a rabbit into a bear, a villager into a troll, you get the idea. While the effects would vary, most of the transformations, in theory, would have a set duration and a set amount of damage they can take before morphing back. Based on certain things currently within the default game, that, at least, should be pretty easy to code. Turning someone into a horse one can actually ride or something might be trickier, but that's beside my current point.

 

I have a goal, however, of having these spells be balanced and actually fit game play as opposed to a "nothing can touch me because I'll just turn them into rabbits" sort of thing. I also want them to fit thematically, which is where I've run into a bit of a contradiction.

 

Thematically, I'm thinking the spell set most appropriate for these abilities would be Alteration, but from a playing standpoint, the benefits most resemble Illusion. Turning someone into something that's passive, frightened or aggressive translates pretty naturally to the Illusion spells Calm, Fear and Fury, respectively. They have their own pros and cons, but the combat scenarios you would use these transformation spells during are pretty close to the ones you'd use those Illusion spells during.

 

So basically, I'm concerned about making Alteration overpowered, and am contemplating how to make these spells fit best in the world of Skryim. Any thoughts?

 

SIDE NOTE! Best I can deduce, NPC transforming makes use of disable and enable commands. This has been all but confirmed by a glitch I've encountered with the guards in solitude who cannot be disabled for some reason. Using the only current in-game method of transforming people (that I know of), the transformation effectively acts like a summon because the guards remain even as their "transformation" spawns in. In fact, when the summon vanishes, I think a copy of the guard appears. I say "think" because the guards didn't appreciate this behavior and things were, um, hectic. I might have died shortly after by way of arrow to the face. Reports vary.

[Darksun45230]

I keep turning over your idea for transformations in my head and I can't help but compare Transform spells to Illusion spells.

[danshive]

Well, yes, I mentioned the similarities. There are key differences, however.

 

For example, when casting fury, you get a frenzied opponent who is exactly the same, but frenzied. With one of the spells I have in mind, they would turn into a cave bear, which might be weaker or stronger than they were before, and restricted to melee attacks. The frenzied character would also return to normal unharmed from the ordeal, which is in and of itself a trade off when compared to the fury spell.

[jackalhead]

It's an awesome idea, but you're right about balancing that being tricky. Perhaps you could only transform people or creatures of equal or lesser level to you. To balance what you can transform them into, perhaps you have to kill a certain number of the creature (for example rabbits) and gather souls from them. After getting 15 rabbit souls, for example, you can transform people of equal or lesser level than you into rabbits. Or perhaps you might want to play with this formula and make it people or creatures that are 5 or less levels than you. Just throwing ideas out there.

[danshive]

Level limitations would definitely be necessary, which is another reason the whole Thematic / Play Balance thing butts heads. Level limitation boosts are neatly built in to Illusion perks and could translate neatly in various ways to the transformation spells.

 

I'm considering making it sort of a half-breed, technically being Alteration but benefiting in various ways from Illusion perks, making it a skill set intended for a particular kind of Mage assuming they want to really make use of it in combat. Who it can affect would benefit from the illusion perks while costs and duration would benefits from Alteration perks. That approach, however, would create the requirement of making certain the transformation spells were worth the player's time beyond the novelty of it all.

 

Of course, one way to do THAT is to add spells that are variations on the beast form power, but I suspect those are fairly limited. If it IS possible to morph the player into other things and have it actually work, though... well, there's all SORTS of crazy potential there.

[Deleted3102385User]

The game describes Alteration as "the manipulation of the world around you" and Illusion as more of manipulating your target's mind. If you're transforming someone, that is definitely outside of the target's mind, so it seems to me that Alteration would be the clear choice as far as the school goes.

[Chris876]

transforming yourself into a troll or giant=beast

[Nanjiro]

How about making some dual cast illusion spells transform people and creatures? Would surely add some depth to illusion dual casting.

[zcks]

Seems more like an alteration type spell to me as you are changing something into something else.

 

That being said it would be hilarious to change an enemy into a rabbit or other harmless animal.

[Nymrohd]

Well I can see the use of giving alteration some offensive options; indeed I think all magical schools should get better fleshed out. Transformations like you suggest could be used as crowd control. Perhaps you could only transform enemies to harmless animals but to balance it out make them essential or give them massive healing regen for the duration of the transformation.

At the same time transmogrifying yourself to different forms and getting special powers in those forms should also be doable. You could transform into a troll and get it's regeneration and strong melee slams; a chaurus giving your poisonous attack and a spit poison ability, a frostbite spider and get their snaring webs and perhaps at master level at a nigh prohibitve mana cost you might even transform into a dragon and get a cooldown reduction for shouts and flight.