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Expanded Dragons, Bigger Battles


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#11
Galacticat42

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I think that, if I were to make a mod expanding upon the dragons and dragon battles, or, y'know, share SUGGESTIONS on such a mod, I'd spread the abilities out a bit. I can't really speak for other folks.

But as you say, quite excessively might I add, it's your mod you're making. Do whatever you like. If it's not up to my liking, then that's cool.


Ehh well I have a general idea of how the storyline will unfold and a persistent view on how dragons should be, but I'm open for suggestions - hell I even have three huge sections cut out from the original plan just to accommodate for other mods which is excluding the quest replacements/revamps that other users have suggested. The problem I see is that the suggestions that I've seen you make would cause a few perks of the mod just do a complete 180. I'm willing to listen if you're willing to fully expand upon the lore of the game, but the lore of TES is the bedrock of TFG.

Yes, it is my mod, but that's only because I'm the lead manager/director/designer of it - you can say that Skyrim is Todd Howard's game because he was the lead manager of that. Regardless, the mod takes suggestions so long as they jibe with the lore and the niche of the presented story. Besides, it gets a bit old to just type out The Fallen Greybeards every time I want to refer to it - so I just say 'my mod' as it's really just the only one I have for Skyrim right now.

Back on topic, I believe that there is a middle ground that we can come in agreement to between super independent AI and supplemental dependent AI. For example, the game difficulty could dictate what NPC can do what attacks.

Edited by Budz42, 15 December 2011 - 07:18 AM.


#12
JeremeW5257

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Other ideas that would be nice...

Easier to see Dragons at night
-You can attain night vision ability, or the dragons glow in the dark

No safe place to hide
-Dragons would attack major cities (Solitude, Whiterun...)
-They would kill non-essencial NPCs
-Towns people would praise you and recognize you as a hero when you defeat Dragon
-Damage Dragon does to town remains permanent for a while...show workers repairing structures

Ability to have "pet" dragon
-You can ride to destinations if you want to enjoy the ride vs fast travel
-Then can assist you in outdoor battles...attacking an enemy fort from above while you "sneak" kill from below

#13
Zinnorokkrah

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Alright, I edited the 'Edited Dragons' chart. They now have less shouts, and frankly, don't seem as overpowered. I gave some dragons the shouts I did because I felt that they, as powerful masters of the Voice, would know it- plus it would make them more difficult. For example I gave the more powerful dragons 'Clear Skies' which would prevent them from being shot down by 'Storm Call', making your job more difficult. I also gave many of the same dragons 'Storm Call' meaning you'd need to deal with the same problem as they would, clearing the sky, or getting electrocuted. Now, here's the charts for the new dragons, and my concept for 'Bigger Battles & Populous Skyrim'. So, without further ado, here's the chart. The 'Dragon Lords' I mentioned will likely have the same shout pool as Paarthurnax or the Anceint Dragons.

Dragonling

No shouts, melee based
Uses poison breath (along the line of the Chaurus)

Drake

Juvenile Dragon
Shorter flight cycle
'Fus Ro'- Unrelenting Force [In the air]
'Yol Toor'- Fire-breath

Swamp Dragon

Specialized Blood Dragon
Uses Poison Breath (along the lines of the Chaurus)

'Fus Ro Dah'- Unrelenting Force [In the air]
'Yol Toor Shul'- Fire-breath
'Raan Mir Tah'- Befriend Animals [On the ground]
'Zul Mey Gut'- Throw Voice [In the air]

Storm Dragon

Specialized Frost Dragon
Uses the spells 'Lightning Storm' [On the ground] and 'Wall of Storms' [In the air]
'Fus Ro Dah'- Unrelenting Force [In the air]
'Strun Bah Qo'- Storm Call [In the air]
'Feim Zi Gron'- Become Ethereal [When health reaches %25]

Fire Dragon

Specialized Dragon- additional spines similar to the Frost Dragon
Uses the spells 'Firestorm' [On the ground] and 'Wall of Flames' [In the air]
'Yol Toor Shul'- Fire Breath
'Fus Ro Dah'- Unrelenting Force [In the air]
'Zun Haal Viik'- Disarm
'Krii Lun Aus'- Marked for Death
'Laas Ya Nir'- Aura Whisper [After a sneak attack by the player]

I specialized the dragons along the lines of their 'element'. Swamp dragon are poisonous, and traits associated with that are also cruelty and craftiness. Not only does this dragon throw poison and fire, but it will also call in animal allies, and having wheeled away, will use 'Throw Voice' to trick you into thinking its coming from another direction, of that another dragon is arriving. Storm dragons are masters of the air, and as such are quick, chilling, and hard to get a hold of. Should it want to escape, it just has to meld itself into the element it has mastered using 'Become Ethereal' and can get away without further harm. The Fire dragon was obvious. As a master of fire it is just about destruction- everything in its repetoire was chosen to help it hunt and kill. Companions hiding and sniping it? Forget it, it'll just use 'Aura Whisper'- suddenly finding yourself weakened? It probably used 'Marked for Death'.


Alright, so here's the idea for 'Bigger Battles & Populous Skyrim'. Ever noticed how low the population is? Or that you can take on the entire military might of a city by yourself, or with a companion? That just doesn't seem right to me- battles should be hazardous to your health, in fact, they should be fatal if you go it alone, or do something stupid. In any case, Skyrim's battles should be dangerous, and the cities larger.

Features

1. More City Inhabitants

A city should be a city, not a place with only seventy some people. This feature would increase the populations of every city, Solitude in particular, by creating more non-interactive NPCs in various farms around the city. A bandit group will now likely not number under thirty, and the invading Stormcloaks at Whiterun will probably number over a hundred.

2. Bigger Battles

An army in Skyrim seems to be a group of under thirty. As such, most bandit groups and the forces of the Silver Hand are larger. This would make armies bigger and more diverse, with small groups of certain kinds of enemies- archers, axmen, warriors, mages, etc- to make up military units. This would make even a group of say, 20 bandits a problem, even for a higher level character, and will screw you over in battles if you aren't going to be helped. For example, an Imperial legion detachment, when you are attacking Ulfric for example, would probably be over a hundred- same with the Forsworn forces preparing for an invasion. This would lead into a few extra quests I've come up with, some miscellaneous, others with a story line.

New Quests

Miscellanious Quests

Protect the Caravan

Given by the Khajit Trader Caravans that wander around Skyrim- they would report an increase in bandit activity, and a loss of profit due to the bandits stealing their merchandise. They will offer you a chance to help defend their caravan, for a fee of course. On the road you'll be set upon by, say, fifteen bandits, and have to fend them off or kill them. You will then loot the bandits and recover a good portion of the Khajit's profits and will be allowed to take a cut out of the gold or valuable items.

Clear Out the Bandit Camp

Go to Jarl or tavern keeper, get quest. Find companion, recruit a few guards to come with you. Go out, kill something like thirty bandits, loot, return, get a bounty from the bandits on top of whatever you took off them and out of their chests.

Defeat Army

Meet with Stormcloaks or Imperials. If you've joined they tell you about a small army. Meet that army in the field with a group of your own soldiers and destroy it.

Story Quest

ACT 1- The Forsworn Invasion

Having successfully completed 'The Forsworn Conspiracy' and 'No One Escapes Cidhna Mine' you return to the surface in Markarth only to discover that the Forsworn have somehow discovered what's happened. Depending on what you chose you can either help the Forsworn invade Markarth, or defend it. If you choose to aid the Forsworn, you'll meet the Markarth City Guard in battle, and will be repulsed. If you choose to help Markarth, then you will defeat the Forsworn invaders, and send them away for a time. You will retreat to the city, where you will prepare for the next assault, or if you're with the Forsworn, to a forest camp.

ACT 2- Thinning the Enemy

Having been repulsed or having successfully repulsed the Forsworn, in any case the Forsworn have Markarth under siege. Try to leave, and they'll kill you. Same if you're with the Forsworn- try to get in, and the guards will kill you. Your leader will order you to reduce enemy numbers once night has fallen. You'll then be given a small group of archers and then you'll sneak up to the city walls. If you're with the Forsworn then you will pick guards off the walls, sneak into the city, and take a few of them out. Once you've succeeded at that, escape while under attack and return to your camp.

ACT 3- The Siege of Markarth

This is it. The Forsworn are coming up from Cidhna Mine as an entrance for a surprise assault. If you're with the Forsworn, kill everyone you can, and then execute the Jarl. The Forsworn will then take control of the city and the hold, and you'll open some miscellaneous quests to hunt down all that remains of Markarth's forces in various caves and camps across the Reach. If you're with Markarth, you'll have to fight your way through the Forsworn into Cidhna Mine, head to their camp, and then kill the Hagravens there along with their Warlords. If you win, the Forsworn will cease to spawn as commonly as they used to, and the majority of their camps will be abandoned.

Edited by Zinnorokkrah, 16 January 2012 - 05:43 PM.


#14
SkyrimeisterSam

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http://www.thenexusf..._1#entry3815353

Some ideas for you on the animations, I totally agree that dragon battles are boring, bite, shout, fly, bite, shout, fly.

I understand how scripting new animations could be a huge PITA, but revamping dragons with all new fighting tactics + new varieties of them would completely transform the game :)

Best of luck in this mod, I hope it goes ahead.

#15
elvinkun

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Yes please, to all points.

As of now, dragons are only nice looking, high-reward easy enemies. They aren't even really dangerous, when the "title music" starts playing, one should get nervous because there is an epic battle comming, not go "Yay, another soul!". I mean, Death Overlord in a dungeon is times harder than a Dragon, but that just isn't right. Dragons should be the most powerfull beings around, not flying treasure chests everyone hopes to meet.
Also, the irony, what about Dragon Priests, they are supposed to be former Dragon worshippers... and yet they are stronger than their "gods" ... Come on...

Edited by elvinkun, 15 December 2011 - 06:43 PM.


#16
elvinkun

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Lag-double-post, sorry.

Edited by elvinkun, 15 December 2011 - 06:40 PM.


#17
SkyrimeisterSam

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That's exactly how I think, the sad part is, I WANT to feel like an epic battle is about to come, I really do, I want to think "s***, please don't come this way, please don't come this way...".

Also, that animation when the dragon comes crashing down out the sky is just DREADFUL. It's so buggy, if a 1 inch rock is sticking up where it comes crashing, it'll bounce along the ground like a wave springing up and down, you'll know what I mean if you saw it.

#18
Zinnorokkrah

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Thanks for the input. Any suggestions or critiques? Stuff you really liked, stuff you didn't like, stuff you'd like me to expand upon, stuff you want me to add. Go ahead, I'm just brain-storming at the moment- I'll take any ideas I can get. I really like the idea of 'Dragon Night Vision', a new shout giving you the sight abilities of a dragon, perhaps? Anyways, I'm going to be releasing details on the dragon lords over the next week or so, along with a bit of possible dialogue for my dragon/Blades quest line.

#19
Zinnorokkrah

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Alright, here's the first dragon lord you'll fight out in the Reach. He'll probably look similar to a cross between Odahviing and a Blood Dragon. I'm envisioning his dragon cavern as being labyrinthian, thinly populated, and frankly, it will be hard to reach him once he starts moving. He knows his way around the place- you don't. Look out for attacks from behind pillars and tricks involving 'Throw Voice'. If you look at his taunts, you'll notice I made him quite arrogant- he leaves out all of the comments on honour and a good fight that most of the other dragons do.

I'm also starting to come up with an idea for a concept for female dragons, or Dragon Matriarchs, if you will. I haven't really developed it, but I'm envisioning them as being more graceful and elegant than the males, but also being a real pain to fight, especially in dragon caverns.

Naxfeynfaas [Translation: Cruelty Bane Fear]
'Fo Krah Diin'- Ice-Breathing
'Yol Toor Shul'- Fire-Breathing
'Fus Ro Dah'- Unrelenting Force [In the air]
'Wuld Nah Kest'- Whirlwind Sprint [On the ground]
'Zun Haal Viik'- Disarm
'Strun Bah Qo'- Storm Call
'Lok Vah Koor'- Clear Skies [When attacked with 'Storm Call']
'Tiid Klo Ul'- Slow Time [On the ground]
'Zul Mey Gut'- Throw Voice [In the air]
'Faas Grah Hadrim'- Madness [Translation: Fear Battle Mind- similar to the spell Mayhem]

Uses the spells 'Invisibility' and 'Muffle'.


Taunts

"Hiding will not save you!"

"Dovahkiin! Your Voice is no match for mine!"

"Daar denek fen dahmaan hin dinok, Dovahkiin!" Translation: This soil will remember your death Dragonborn!

"Ful lusei Dovahkiin? Geinmaar prodah pogaas!" Translation: You are Dragonborn? I expected [direct: was foretold] more [direct: much]!

Edited by Zinnorokkrah, 16 January 2012 - 05:49 PM.


#20
SkyrimeisterSam

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Looks really good, I also think that for the dragon lords you should increase their scale, maybe 1.5x / 2x over their normal brethern? That way you know you're in for a serious fight.




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