A request for help: I'm out of ideas to fix my CTD's!

[Indio21]

I actually started fresh because I figured with this CR knowledge builing up, finding erroneous mods would be much easier when I am installing them vs trying to find the culpret amid the 300+ mods I had installed :D

 

I am not sure what you mean by "the method"?

If you know those are all mods you want, before CR tells you which you can keep possibly, you can load them all up in your chosen MM, address any concerns the MM may have to get them all active, sort with LOOT and address all it's concerns. Once those steps are completely resolved you can disable all the mods in your MM but the game dlc, game add-ons, and the first mod beneath the last add-on.

 

From there you start to follow "The Method" which is a proofed process for resolving conflicts in xedit. I would recommend you take the time and read all relevant sections in the guide to learn to use functions of xedit first. You will see the section for CR or the method or the method is under the CR section. Pretty much got it all in my head so been some days since I was there.

 

Here is the link to the xEdit Tome https://tes5edit.github.io/docs/index.html

[OJLMethos]

On the note of ModGroups I hope you can help because I want to use them but dont understand exactly how and the tome isn't helping / I dont get it yet!

 

1. Say I install all the mods I want that change textures. They over-write vanilla textures, some over-write each other where they change the same stuff etc etc.

2, Lets say for arguments sake my load order is dealing with 100% of the conflicts correctly and / or I have made a merged patch loaded after all these texture mods to ensure that I get the textures I want.

3. I highlight all the mods in xEdit (all my texture mods, all the masters, all the DLC .esms etc) right click > create mod group > name it "textures". Great

4. lets say I have NO other mods installed. Nothing that could conflict beyond the texture mods that I just made a group for.

 

Based on the above, I should have NO conflict flags appearing right? Because I have organised my conflicts how I wanted through load order or merged patches and then I made a mod group and only the last records from all the files within that group should be listed. Since there are NO other mods that may alter textures, then my xedit flag for conflicts should be 100% EMPTY... right?

 

But... I have done the above and there are still loads of conflicts flagged.. I dont get it.. It didn't really help "reduce the noise"

 

I have tried re-applying the filter to see conflicts but that doesn't seem to "apply" the Mod Group. I only get the option to apply the Group on a full xEdit restart...

 

The tome refers to a ModGroup window but doesn't actually say how to open it and I can find out how - except for entirely closing and reloading the programme

Edited March 11, 2020 by OJLMethos

[OJLMethos]

On the note of "The Method"

 

I just saw this section (have been reading through the guide slowly over the last few days) and I have to say it resonates with me! It literally just described the last 5 years of my Skyrim modding experiences, culminating in today when I deleted all my saves and all my mods and did the fresh game install because I was close to giving up :P

 

The goods news is that I had come to a similar conclusion myself with modgroups - so that shows I'm using the tool correctly and its good to have some "official" guidance on "The Method".

 

also, ongoing thanks from me... you are by far the most useful person I have found in the modding community and have enabled me to take my modding to the next level :D

[Indio21]

First, lets back up a step. The Method requires you to only have one mod active at a time. This is the key to the method being a proven process for CR because you would not see conflicts coming after the active mod in your LO. Other wise it becomes a mental memory mess trying to keep them all in mind.

 

Right now I am not remembering if you are one of the people I am helping that has mods that are required to load before the USSEP or not, so I will use the hypothetical example that you do not. So in your MM you have the game dlcs/add-ons then the USSEP and only your very next mod active in your MM. The rest have to be off. You run Quick Check for Conflicts in xedit. You verify that every record and every cell in one that shows a conflict is what you want.

 

If all conflicts are one's you want you have two alternatives to make a group so they will not show upon running QCFC again, until the next mod activated may do so and the last mod in that group reappears. Note also, from the Tome guide, you do not put more than two mods in a group, ever!

 

1. In xedit you go to the left pane and select the plugin/mod itself. Not one of the records in it as you have already verified all conflicts are what you want or you should not be at this step!! Then hold down Ctrl and select the second mod's name.

2. Right on one of the names selected. In the popup window select "Create ModGroup...".

3. You will get a popup window asking about codes, always say yes

4. The window opens for you name your group. Per Elwaps guides, copied from for this process in the Tome guide, it is best to use a naming scheme like ModA-ModB-GROUP, etc. After naming select OK

5. Another window opens asking which mod file you basically want to associate the new group to. This is were I love this tool for managing LO :). You always associate to the last mod in the LO. This, and only putting mods in a group of two at a time, is what stops when you activate the next mod that you do not see the cascade of conflicts before the newly active mod. Also why one needs to follow The Method explicitly and activate one mod at a time :).

 

There is another process to creating a group, but the above process has a couple less steps in it and probably would be a little less confusing just starting to work with the tool, so I will just stop with that.

 

If you turn off all the mods in your LO and do one by one resolving all the conflicts none of the rest of the questions in your two last post will be relevant. Am pretty sure you have your whole LO active and not only one mod on at a time like The Method shows. You are welcome also!

[Indio21]

OJLMethos, I do have to go into the other process of creating a group as eventually you will be forced to use. Bare with as I am knowledgeable on it all, I just lack the experience of doing it lol. This might get a little lengthy so I'll do my best.

 

To cover somethings I forgot to mention above. When I first started CR on my LO when you run QCFC the first time with the first mod active you will see most or all the add-on and possibly the USSEP. If the they do show in QCFC just start from the first and work through them. If they just conflict with the Update.esm, with one another, or the USSEP you are completely safe just grouping them so they are gone when you run QCFC again. Remember, still only two at a time in a group! Ex. Dawnguard conflicts with the Update.esm, well of course it is supposed to so we just group that one with no need for concern. Or Dragonborn and Heartfires, again completely safe so group and be happy about less red lol. Only the conflicts that exist past the Update.esm, game add-ons, and USSEP are the ones you need to open and verify every cell before you create a group call it all "good".

 

Well that was not too bad and now to the reason you have to know the other way to create a group. Now as you keep turning on mods individually resolving conflicts you are going to run into situations were that new mod is shown conflicting that last mod in a group already done, but, because xedit was already told it is a good conflict and was grouped, it is not in the left pane. It is only appearing in the right pane because the newly active mod is overwriting now and xedit wants us to know :smile:, damn I love this tool if you hadn't figured it out by now lol.

 

So because it is not available for us to select in the left pane you need to right click the new mod's title/name at the top of the column. A popup window will open for you to again select the group option. Here the process starts a little different. A different window will open this time looking like the one for the group name, it is not. It wants you to verify the mods for the group, again only the two in question should be checked if more is shown. Two mods to a group is a real key to the management portion of this great tool. After verifying select OK. Now you will be back to the window that first shows doing the other process asking about codes, again always YES and on to the naming one, etc as above you do all the same.

 

Oh shoot, I forgot to mention the last window in the group process above. It will ask something about all the mod groups created. Always have all mod groups selected. When your list gets long, and it will, if you do not want to scroll you can right click in the window and just click "Select All", then click OK.

 

Hopefully I did not forget to address a question. If so, just ask. It took me months of research and learning to get this down for a SSE game and I was just so thankful the mod titans and veterans left us this info, so why not forward all the knowledge and generosity to help another. I find faith in Karma :smile:

Edited March 11, 2020 by Indiao21

[OJLMethos]

A question I do have: Say I load a mod (lets call it modY) and it conflicts with Update, Dawnguard, Hearthfire, USSEP and (for example) 2 other mods, one of which has a compatibility patch, so modA, modB and modB compatibility patch.

 

Per your rule of "only two mods in a ModGroups " Do you honestly create 1 ModGroups for every single one of those pairings, which in this case would be 6 separate ModGroups , 1 modgroup each for:

Dawnguard & modY

Hearthfire & modY

USSEP & modY

ModA & modY

ModB & modY

ModB compatibility patch & modY

 

Why can't you make one mod group covering all of these conflicts in one go? I imagine this gets VERY VERY lengthy later on when you have 200+ plugins and one mod will likely conflict with 30 - 40 of them... I cant believe that you need 30 - 40 ModGroups for just one mod...

 

Also, the tome references ModGroups being linked to load order... so is the proper process for all of these:

1. Install and activate mod
2. LOOT / manually sort the load order (I believe this must be the FINAL load order otherwise any ModGroups will cease to work)
   • This represents a problem, because mods I install later will likely change the load order. If they do change the load order, the ModGroups that I have setup will stop working. So I dont understand how this is practically done.
   • I also dont know how to see what ModGroups are "filtered" due to erroneous load order, as the tome simply says they will be filtered out of the list... so my hard work is undone but I dont even know it!
3. Run and review Conflicts in xEdit, once happy
4. select 1 conflict & ModY > right click > create mod group > assign CRCvalues > name it > done!

[Indio21]

"Per your rule of "only two mods in a ModGroups " Do you honestly create 1 ModGroups for every single one of those pairings, which in this case would be 6 separate ModGroups , 1 modgroup each for:"......Not my rule, it was developed because of the Method and yes.

 

"Why can't you make one mod group covering all of these conflicts in one go?".......Because later when have to update a mod only the conflict with the last group mod made will show upon running QCFC. Lets say you put 6 in a group. Later you either want to add another mod, update a mod, OR remove a mod. Now once that situation happens all 6 of those mods will now appear again upon running QCFC and unless you remember all the conflicts you will have to verify them again.

 

Remember this from the Tome...."When the detail view for a record is generated and multiple files of the same mod group modify this record, then only the newest of the files in that modgroup will be shown. So instead of seeing 5 different files with numerous conflicts you are only seeing the newest file in that mod group. This also affects conflict classification."

 

"Also, the tome references ModGroups being linked to load order...".......Because you already had picked your mods this is why I suggested the steps in post #21. If you was building this LO doing the method after each mod you picked then yes, updating mod groups will be a constant factor. Doing the steps above once you have satisfied LOOT you are done with it until you add a new mod to your LO as you already verified it all before you began CR. Your situation is like mine as we discovered CR after we had all the mods. So with LOOT providing the extent of it's abilities for LO the only thing that can advise you to change a mod's position is xedit.

 

"so is the proper process for all of these:".......For your situation no. See notes added below

1. Install and activate mod - In your case they are installed to the MM so just activate one and run QCFC
2. LOOT / manually sort the load order (I believe this must be the FINAL load order otherwise any ModGroups will cease to work) - Explained above and in post #21. Makes bullets below disregard-able as filter mentioned is an auto feature behind the scenes.
   • This represents a problem, because mods I install later will likely change the load order. If they do change the load order, the ModGroups that I have setup will stop working. So I dont understand how this is practically done.
   • I also dont know how to see what ModGroups are "filtered" due to erroneous load order, as the tome simply says they will be filtered out of the list... so my hard work is undone but I dont even know it!
3. Run and review Conflicts in xEdit, once happy - This step is talking like I explained above if you were finding the mod, installing, check with LOOT, doing CR, and on to the next mod. If steps in post #21 were performed you are "happy" with the whole LO
4. select 1 conflict & ModY > right click > create mod group > assign CRCvalues > name it > done! > nope > associate to the last mod in LO (highest priority) to the group made > select all mod groups in window and select OK > DONE :)

[Indio21]

OJLMethos, I believe The Method was formed with the perception that people would know about it and all the tools needed to make a modded game before they ever started finding mods. If that was the case one would have to do the steps above as you basically outlined from the Method. Once that mod was completely resolved of conflicts they would go find another and the steps would repeat. Then yes, LOOT may toss around a plugin to arrange LO and it messes with already established groups.

 

There is good and bad to doing what we are doing. Completing the steps in post 21 I outlined saves you the surprise that LOOT did move something. The bad is you may address a few things with a mod before you actually reach it for CR to find out then it has conflicts above your know how to resolve or you may not want to put in that time to learn at first and want to play after doing all this work. Therefore if you disable or remove it there goes the work on it with research, etc. Post 21 just provides a "work around" to having an already established mod list downloaded.

 

I had to look back and see if you was the person I told about my own patches and groups and it was. When I said I had already made 29 personal patches and at least over 200 mod groups I was incorrect on the groups. I looked later then for a better average count and I was over 270 mod groups then. Not counting the patches I made I have 355 active plugins and 290 mods. So yes you will make LOTS of mod groups and you will find yourself making patches for patches too! So do not let that surprise you.

 

If you have ever seen one of those homemade patch blankets that is the perfect example of CR. All those squares of material are the mods and by making groups and patches you are stitching together all of them to end up with one functioning piece.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Indiao21

[OJLMethos]

Ok, it's hard to understand certain bits of this but I think I am getting it.

 

One bit I'm still a bit stuck on the whole concept of have a totally, utterly, non-negotiable, fixed, permanent load order established before I have even started the Conflict resolution stuff...

 

CR is a big part of finalising your load order so I am at a loss as to how I am expected to have all my mods in the right order before I even start that journey.

• CR will mean I either:

1. change my load order to ensure the right conflicts are being adopted OR
2. create a compatibility patch...

• Either would invalidate all my ModGroups made up to that point because of the change in load order,
• with all my ModGroups gone, I imagine I start all my CR from the beginning
• which means at some point I will change my load order or introduce a new compatibility patch (see step 1)....
• which would invalidate all my ModGroups......
• So i have to start again.....
• ......and round and round we go.

 

Like I said, cant get my head past this and I only hope that I have misunderstood or Load Order doesn't matter.

[OJLMethos]

I also dont understand the following situation:

 

add 1 mod to my load order

run QCFC

Select 2 mods > create modgroup > name it > assign it to mod > apply it, along with my other modgroups

 

and.... nothing happens.

I refresh conflict filter.... nothing happens

I close xEdit and load it back up - no conflicts are reported - so it worked (I think... but do I really need to close xEdit every time... can't I just refresh somehow?)

 

Furthermore, I use MO2 and all the .modgroup files are appearing in my Overwrite folder and NOT the mod folder that I assigned the modgroup to... any ideas how to fix this?