Webbstre

Hi there! Webbstre here, owner of Runic Games Fansite. I do actually talk to Dark0ne once in a while, and he has given me advice about running my own site in the past. We met due to some mutual unpleasantness involving a third party website stealing content from both of our communities. So, I know everyone has their preferences when it comes to websites and knowing who to trust, and what site is easiest to use. I also am COMPLETELY aware that in so many ways Dark0ne has a much better setup over here than my own site - to be expected with the amount of experience he's built up and the way he's made it finanically viable to keep all of these games supported. That said I very much appreciate that he doesn't devour a good portion of my traffic by setting up his own Torchlight related modding site ;) If it helps anyone, we're working hard to get all the Pre-GUTS mods converted to work with the latest versions of the game (less than 20% of the Pre-GUTS mods remain to be converted right now) and to get HotSpot (our own mod manager) updated to support TL2 now that modding is officiall supported. We've got some cool options in the works that will help make HotSpot much more user-friendly to people, such as potentially making a built-in way to combine mods and get around the 10 mod limit the game has in place. Oh, and I recently expanded to make a new website for the upcoming Grim Dawn, which will also be an ARPG that supports modding. It's not really related to the conversation, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Maybe someday I will build up my own network like Dark0ne has... or maybe by that time we will figure out some way to combine forces. I don't know, but for now I just try to take everything one step at a time, and make it so people want to use RGF instead of the Workshop, whenever possible.

I'll be honest here. I purposely didn't correct him when he explained how he thought this mod installation data would help people because (A) Modding installation is extremely game specific, and (B) We have our own mod manager program for Torchlight that we'd like our users to use. Our program is maintained by our community, so the modders who actually know how the game works keep it maintained and it is set up so that we don't lose any ad views from people using it. I've offered to talk to Kreisher again, but now I also have to see what all this means about "we won't delete your account or the data we've collected about you once you've registered the account." (from one of their CMs) If that's as bad as it sounds then that would be strike three in my book.

I'm a bit lost at this point, but at what point are they going to be selling other people's mods? I'm going to suggest this the next time I talk to him, but I think they need to hire one of the long-time, "hardcore" modders from this forum (or a similar one, not mine since we're still young in comparison) to just act as a safeguard against mistakes like this in the future. Anyone live in Seattle?

So.... hello again everyone. I haven't read the entire 18 pages of this thread (made it through about 5 before I realized how many there were), but I think a misunderstanding of an idea I tossed out there may have led to this whole fiasco this time. So, to re-introduce myself, I'm Webbstre of runicgamesfansite.com. We were in the same batch of controversy as you guys when the whole gmod thing came up a while back. After all of our content was taken down and the apology happened we were basically happy with the result and a few of my users even voluntarily uploaded their mods as a mirror. Also, one of their community managers asked if I would be open to a meeting with Kreisher over Skype. I figured "Hey, why not?" and we had two Skype chats, the most recent of which was just over a month ago. Basically, Kreisher and his gang wanted to know why people got all pissed off, and I tried to explain the basics: (1) Modders are very protective of their work and in a lot of cases the choice of where to host their files is a sign of loyalty to a particular site, (2) Fansite admins need the influx of users to keep their communities alive and to provide those precious ad views that keep the websites afloat, and (3) People get upset to find out that they have their work appropriated without permission, and have an account made in their name and then not even have a delete function available on the user-end to clear up the mess on their own. I basically suggested that if he's going to index anything, then for each file listed it should only include a link to the website where the user can find the file(s), and possibly list mirrors if one site is down. In my own case, I saw this as a potential new source of traffic. I definitely didn't suggest the whole link-directly-to-the-file thing. That's obviously bandwidth leeching and if it had happened to me I would have gotten just as pissed off. In fact, just seeing what happened here made me go look through my own site's security and realize I need to patch a few spots to make sure no one can bandwidth leech off of me, whether it's gmod or some site in China or Russia that wants to try to download my entire fansite (there have been attempts before). (Side note- whoever set up that nifty redirect blacklist thing, I'd love to know how you did it. [email protected] for tips) I'm going to try to be optimistic and assume that what happened was a misunderstanding of the idea I suggested, and hope to see that it gets fixed before I see the same thing happen to my own site. As for the auto-account creation thing, I think I know why that works the way he did. I don't think I'm giving away any corporate secrets at this point, but when Kreisher and I talked he basically said in the future he wants this point system that is integral to gmod work in a way so that the most valuable users get the most points, or the most active users. So if you get a ton of points because forty thousand people clicked the link to get to your mod, then you can exchange them or get rewarded with games and other loot - basically repaying hard work on the modders' part. The auto-account thing I think was to make sure that no modders lose points. However - and I haven't checked to see if this has been fixed yet or not because I don't have any files of my own there - the main problem before was the lack of a Delete button once you DID claim your user account. As someone else mentioned here, a total opt-out button would also be appreciated. As I said before, modders are protective of their work and the choice of where to host their files can make or break a fansite. I'm hoping Kreisher or his CMs are still watching this thread and see this, and understand what went wrong this time. As for you cool Nexus guys, it's totally your choice to blacklist a website from linking to your files. Again, I'd like to know how you did it, since that was pretty cool :P I'll be watching this thread from now on, in case anyone else responds.

Haha, someone thought Zidders and I and Kreisher were the same person? That's kinda hilarious. Also, JediFreeman is actually one of the devs at Runic, in case anyone cares ;) I do admit that this has been an interesting experience. Torchlight has only been around for a couple years, so we haven't had the content stealing problem come up before. Sad to hear that other sites have been just as problematic to this site and weren't as compliant.

Well I'm impressed by how this turned out. I still need to see the TL mods taken down before I'm 100% satisfied, and it would be nice to see the ability to delete your own files after claiming an account, but if this goes as the video says I can't say I have any more complaints. Yay for community activism.

So it turns out that I have an old account here, from my Fallout 3 and Oblivion days. Nice. I just thought I'd drop in and say hi to Mr. CEO here, who bailed on our thread on the Runic Games forums after everyone ganged up and told him to take down all the mods he stole and start over properly. Ironic that this is the EXACT SAME THING that this community came up with. I'm going to enjoy watching as the other sites you've taken mods from catch on and do the same thing. Like I said before, and someone else said here, we like having proper competition, and legitimate alternatives to our sites. It gives us all reasons to improve our own sites. This kind of thing is just dirty though. As it was pointed out, some of the mods you've taken from this site even had Readme files with explicit instructions not to distribute them. Good work. Still waiting for a response to my questions over on the RG Forums btw. I'd like a straight answer on what your business plan is with all this, and why you think taking content from other sites is going to help you become a successful company with groups over gamers who are fiercely protective of their work.