Dubbyk

Now that you bring it up I do remember having to flag files and run some sort of "checker" program that would look into the file and count the ID's and see if it was eligible for .esl flagging. And MMM was marts mutant mod but I derped out and forgot that was a FO3 mod not FO4, I'd have to go into my nexus history to find what the big mutant overhaul mod I used for FO4 was, luckily I was pretty dedicated to liking and following all the mods I used so I could use that as a starting point on rebuilding.

So I played Fallout 4 for god knows how many hours, most of it spent modding, bug hunting and playing around in the shallow end of GECK to make incompatible mods run together. (I never actually finished the story lol) Then .ESL's came out and blew the lid off the normal 255 mod limit and then I spent even more hours trying to see what mods I could turn into .ESLs to cram more mods into my load order, I think at one point I had almost 400 plugins running (granted many where tiny one weapon mods or .ini tweaks) And then my hard drive crashed........... Uncounted hours of modding and testing down the tubes and I just could not bear to do all that work again after just doing it. So now it's years later and I've foolishly starting watching some Fallout lore videos on Youtube and that's gotten me wanting to try it again. So my question is, how is the state of modding in Fallout 4 now years later? Has .ESL's become the standard for small mods or do end user's still have to convert them? So is normal to still have to clean mods with FO4 edit and look for deleted nav meshes? Have the bigger staple mods like MMM, Raider Overhaul and Sim Settlement's died off? Also with the coming news of the "Next Gen" patch coming in 2023 is it better to wait to get back in? Is it known if the patch will destroy modding for weeks / months after it's release and or kill older mods that are no longer being worked on as there has not been a patch in so long for the PC and while the mods may have been working fine for years this new patch will blow them all up. So please share with me your thoughts on if it's a good time to come back to the game or if I should just preserve my sanity and wait for Fallout 5 sometime in ten years.

So I used to be super OCD about repacking any loose mod that I got from Nexus, not only for the speed bump larger mods would see in terms of loading but because it kept the data folder A LOT cleaner, and it was easy to find two .BA2 files then maybe 100s of loose texture and mesh files that old NMM may have left behind. My question is now with Vortex's improved file handing systems do you guys still feel it's worth packing smaller loose mods? For example, a mod that can color code power lines, it has tons of little bitty mesh files for the wires, but they are tiny so packing wouldn't really be needed for a performance boost, and solely used for keeping files "clean" I still plan on packing larger mods that for some reason don't pack their files, always odd to see larger mods that have GIGS of textures / Meshes that can be cut down like 40% by packing them, but with the smaller ones it would be nice to save the time.

@1ae0bfb8: Thanks that worked as you said it would, shame there isn't a "Refresh All" option like there used to be, will take a LOT of clicking to get it all back lol @sopmac451: I Didn't realize watching 3rd party YouTubers will annoying voices was a requirement for asking about a basic function of the program that was CLEARLY a visible button in the previous version of the program. In addition I DID watch the 3 videos made by Gopher that are listed on the top bar of the Vortex program under "tutorials". NOWHERE in those three videos that are listed under tutorials does he even say the word "meta data". It is also not covered anywhere in the "Knowledge Base" menu of the program. That has topics covering "categories" and says to use the process described by ae0bfb8 but I don't think it's a clear leap to connect how to make an arbitrary user made category (what the knowledge base covers) to that being the same process to establish the linkages between files and nexusmods.com

OK so moving from NMM to Vortex, I did a fresh install of Fallout 4 to lessen any issues in moving over, I kept my NMM download folder to keep from having to re-download the THOUSANDS of mods I've collected over the years. I can get Vortex to "see" these mod files by moving them into Vortex's download folder but they are missing all meta data. NMM used to have a tool to refresh / find meta data. I can't seem to find such an option in Vortex, am I just missing it?

So I was merging a bunch of location / dungeon mods and was going around in the CK fixing landscape seams. Then for some reason I got a wild hair and decided to re-sculpt Sanctuary Hills, I have now spent enough time and changed enough there it might as well be a mod of it's own. So now the problem I have is since I was doing all this editing in a merged plugin of dozens of other mods I need to find out if I can somehow just get my changes to Sanctuary into a separate .ESP Is it just a matter of opening the merged .ESP in Xedit and "Copy Records" of the cells dealing with Sanctuary or is there more too it?

I'm trying to bug hunt some messed up dialog in a mod I down loaded, but after opening up the plugin in Xedit, i can't see them find where dialog records are, thought it would be under NPC's or quest but I don't see it there. Can some one point me in the direction (tab) where dialog records are?

If anyone has been watching this thread, I found the issue, it was Private-Profle-Redirector : https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/33947 completely uninstalling this fixed the CK, and lucky since it's just a FOSE plugin I can easily uninstall and reinstall as I need to use the CK.

And just to clarify what I am looking for, I'm looking for mods that replace a vanilla file outright, so mod added BA2 files don't count, and overwrites via .ESP don't count, just things that hard replace a file?

Swapped back to the original BA2 files, still wont open, uninstalled any mod I could think of that changed vanilla files but with 1000+ mods it's impossible to know them all really. What Drives me nuts is i USED to be able to open the CK with my insane mod order all the time. The only reason I have been able to merge and make compatible so many mods is with the CK, I just don't understand what changed, The "scan and repair" on the Beth launcher says my files are fine, but opening the CK says to scan them again. I know form experience if I run Steam's validate files it will WRECK my modded folder and I will have to start all over. Do you guys think if I install a fresh copy of FO4 on an other hard drive I can get the CK to try to open from their and leave my modded folder alone? I can then just move the .ESPS of the mods I want to change over to the other HDD, edit them and move them back. Think my plan will work?

In response to Thirdstorm The CK wont open at all, if I open from the .exe it self i Just get a small loading icon on the mouse for a second and then nothing. If i try to open from the Beth Launcher it say's it failed to open a and to validate files. To BlahBlahDEEBlahBlah I think you maybe on to something, I use a texture re-placer that actually replaces the Fallout Texture BA2 files, sounds like that might be a good place to start my search. (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/27038)

Every time I go to load the CK it says it failed to do so and I need to verify my files, I've attempted reinstalling the CK, no help. I am very reluctant to use steam to verify my files as I am sure it will screw up my heavily modded fallout 4 folder. I think I remember reading on some mod pages a long time ago that some mods that use .DLLs can cause issues with the CK. Does anyone know if this even a possibility? And if so anyone know any off the top of their head so I can try and narrow down the issue. Guess my other alternative would be to make a 2nd non modded installation of FO4, would having two installs of FO4 on the same computer freak out NMM and the CK? *edit some additional info, I used to be able to load up the CK just fine even with all of my mods, not sure when the CK issue happened as it's been months since I needed to open it, maybe game / CCC updates broke something?

Yes I use the BA2 tool quite a lot. I Tested my theory last night on my ArmorMerge2.esp file, within this merge is "Eli's Armour Compendium", that mod contains custom voice acting for her shop NPC. The voice files are in a self named folder like I describe above. Without changing the folder name the NPC was mute and the conversation is glitchy. So I went and renamed the file path from: X:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Fallout 4\Data\Sound\Voice\Eli_Armour_Compendium.esp to X:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Fallout 4\Data\Sound\Voice\Armormerge2.esp and it worked. The NPC is now fully voice acted again. I will need to test more to see if this fixes the issues with animations that are in self named folders as well. This leads me to a new question now: If you use the self named folder system, and it's so easily broken by merging or ESL conversion, why use it? Why not just have your files load like this: X:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Fallout 4\Data\Sound\Voice and leave out the .ESP specific folder altogether? I've seen bunches of other mods that use loose file just place their assets into the main folders and they merge / ESL convert no issues. So is their some advantage to using .ESP specific folder names I am missing? *edit oh and in regard to your question about why I am going through all this effort monkeying with file paths ect, it's not just to save a FEW .ESP slots, it's to save a great many. Using my ArmorMege2.esp for example. I have over 50 armor and power armor related mods merged saving me upwards of 70ish .ESP slots. And about 5-6 of them off the top of my head have some sort of folder specific files, seemly mostly voice files. Using the renaming tactic I talked about above I was also able to get the ambient music and radio transmissions from several of the power armor mods to play again.

OK so mod's that have folder set ups like this: X:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Fallout 4\Data\Sound\Voice\MODNAMEHERE If you rename or merge a plug in do you need to change the folder path? Seems to effect VOICE and ANIMATION files the most, Meshes and Textures seem to almost always work when I merge plugins but then again I am normally building a custom BA2 file for the new merged plug in. Will I get the voice files working again if I folder path to something like this: X:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Fallout 4\Data\Sound\Voice\MERGEDMODNAMEHERE ? Or is this folder path some how hard coded into the .ESP when it's made, and I would need to go into the .ESP and change the file path for each file? *edit I've also been keeping voice files out of my BA2 because I have heard the compression of BA2 files messes them up. Not sure if that extra info helps.

In response to post #61983402. #61992362, #61993342, #61994292, #61998187, #62004637, #62004807 are all replies on the same post. Lets hope it's more effective then the G.O.A.T. at spotting robots

Is there anyway to use the bell while workshop mode is open? With expanded settlements and expanded "sandbox" mods I have installed unassigned settlers can wander really far off making it a real pain to find them when I need to assign them to a new building. Now I know I can just drop out of work shop mode, ring the bell and go back to build mode, but with the number of settlement object mods I have it takes 40-60 seconds to open build mode so that time can really add up if I have to open / close it a ton. Is their a console command that can trigger the same effect as the bell? Maybe a workshop object could be made that uses the bell's effect when placed? So drop the object, it summons settlers, then scrap the object?

OK my 1,000+ mod game (ESLs and merges galore). I have spent years screwing around testing mods, I think I might actually play the game now. I have tested all the different "batches" of mods (location, armor,weapon,quest,ect) by them self's a bunch, most of all the locations mods as sorting conflicts for them involved me sometimes going cell by cell and manually editing mods to resolve conflicts. I started a brand new game at intro, unmodded but with .ini edits so Ugirds was set properly (think that might have been a problem with my old test save, it was made at Ugirds 5 and I now play at 7) and made it to the vault exit, Saved loaded locations based mods (some of them involved sanctuary and the area right outside the vault, I didn't know what would happen if I attempted to radically change them once they had been "formed" the 1st time I went to the surface.). Could save / load and run around like a mad man without CTD, next batch, next batch ect ect any all seems to be well. Now I just need to get banned from nexus so I STOP LOOKING FOR ME MODS and actually play the dam game, I've only had it almost 4 years lol.

OK so I've seen some conflicting advice on this so maybe people can help me clear some things up. New Game vs clean save: So all my testing on my insane load order has been off of a unmodded clean save from right before you leave the vault, is this a good place to start with my full load order or should I start a game fresh from the INTRO? Some people say don't load and mods till after you get the pip boy, other people say that things that have global changes such as .INI changes and large scale map edits should be done at the start. Turn mods on one at a time, all at once or in batches? Videos of the Wasteland states you should not turn on all of it's add on mods at once due to too many FOIDs being added at once. Is this kind of "clogging" true of all mods or just a quirk of a few? Would it be better to load mods one at a time inside the vault, make a hard save, add more, load save ect ect?

Seems silly when you see sentry bots who are loaded to the gills with guns are trying to club everything with said guns instead of shooting them. Unlike even common raiders the programmers of Sentry bots seemed to have forgotten to give them back up instructions, now while I get why with other bots such as Assaulttrons and Protectrons would not be able to back peddle due to the awkwardness of walking backwards Sentry bots with there wheels seem aptly suited to quickly change directions. It almost seems that that is why they went with the tri-wheel set up, to quickly strafe side to side to avoid incoming heavy fire such tank rounds and rockets. OK so lore reasoning aside, on a more technical stand point I often see humanoid NPCs back peddling and firing, and while Sentry bots do sometimes back up to keep distance is there not a AI package variable that could be set for them to make it a priority to stay out of melee combat? I have seen Sentry bots move pretty quickly when they set their minds to it. Maybe one melee arm sweep to stagger foes and then quickly backing up to open distance. As it is now once Sentry bots are engaged in melee they will keep bashing, even if their foe is knocked back they move forward to keep bashing, only going back to ranged weapons once their melee target dies and the next target is some distance away. Even if no one is willing to make such a mod if anyone just happened to know what variable in their AI package might control this I could try to edit it my self. Thanks to anyone who is willing to help.

I know in general there is a limit to the number of edits your total .ESLs can have. IIRC it's 300 ESLs if each ESL is at the very max number of edits allowed in a ESL. But since my ESLs are not always at the cap, some of them are just 1 edit how will I be able to tell when I hit the limit? Will the game just fail to run, will changes just not be included like a .ESP after 255? I am just trying to avoid a situation where I am still adding stuff to no effect, especially for hard to test things like a ESL that changes one script of a quest at the end of the game, hard to load up a clean test save to check something like that to tell if it's working.

Do .ESL files types have issues with BA2 files? I've been having some issues converting some mods in my load order that should be ideal candidates for .ESL conversion the only thing they seem to have in common is they use BA2 archives so I'm starting to think that might be the issue. Can anyone say if the packing of IDs for converting to .ESL some how breaks the connection to BA2 files?

I've heard if there are items / buildings from the .esp they will need to be rebuilt / gotten when you turn it into a .esl due to compacting the FOID numbers, thus changing the IDs of all items within the .esp so you now have orphan references

OK so I know a .ESL can not be updated as a .ESL, it's got to be turned back into a .ESP, changed then turned back into a .ESL and that can lead to issues if your doing this mid game as the .esp to .esl flip flops change ID and file names. My question is, if I have a .esp file, turn it into a .esl before the start of a new game, so as far as the save is concerned it's always been a .esl, the mod updates I down load it, turn it back into a .esl with the same exact name, will the game still implode under changing IDs? Or since the .esp is turned into a .esl the same way as before the IDs are being compacted in the same order thus netting the same out put?

Just for anyone who is watching, I've tested a few and gotten some luck, seems not nearly as many of my little widget mods where F4SE dependent as I thought, I've gotten most of my HUD mods like Holo time and follower status changed over to ESL, along with things like FO4 hot keys and take cover.

Can one turn F4SE plugins into .ESLs if they fit all other .ESL requirements? I have lots of little HUD widgets and tools like In game .ESP explorer and they seem pretty small ID count wise and they only have .ESM as masters so they seem like good picks for .ESL conversion. I just didn't know if F4SE can talk to .ESL or not.