jaime74

Thanks, leewells! This sounds like a reasonable explanation for this common issue. If it should be true, one could take into consideration to propagate a rule of best practice for modders (something like: "try not to add too many on-autosave scripts to minimize the risk of freezing loading screens"). That's a bit unclear to me: Why should the number of older saves in the savegame folder influence the amount of scripts being run in game? The only thing I've experienced is that a huge number of savegame files can slow down the game's main menu.

Sounds nice, but doesn't seem to work for me: When I click the "View download history" on any file comment for my own mods (e.g. this one or this one), I always get the same error message: "You must be a member of the staff or the author of the file to use this feature" I am logged in and I am the author of these mods. So what's missing? [EDIT:] Triple post: Just noticed that this has been reported a second ago by McGuffin and Chesko...

Thanks, Grindelwutz! I also read about this some days ago, but hadn't found the time to try it yet. I'll use your ini file suggestion and see what it does. If this should really be the solution after all, thousands of people will be happy! P.S.: BTW, the related discussion thread from the STEP project can be found here: http://forum.step-project.com/showthread.php?tid=256&pid=26204#pid26204

it's only for the form id which are duplicate, not for ghost script, there is a utility for scripting, the only one problem is, it works as a batch, you can't choose which script to clean, you must dele all of them @@ Yes, to me this looks like somethng that can also be done with TES5Edit (wild edits/dirty edits)... or am I wrong? Anyway, it doesn't seem to be able to solve the famous savegame bloat issues, because these have nothing to do woth FormIDs.

That's true, of course. In fact, that's exactly the reason why I am so anxiously analyzing everything so thoroughly right now (i.e. at level 1). I am so fed up with fighting such issues on level 30-40, which is what happened during my previous two playthroughs :) Are you really sure that it was caused by MHKP in your case? Because my main concern is that I just don't want to guess this time. I am trying to be as specific as possible, and not to falsely blame neither a specific mod, nor the game in general. There are simply so many different types of errors in the Papyrus.log and so many potential reasons for instability, and I suppose that many entries are indeed harmless! During my last attempts to fight CTDs, script failures and bloating at a high character level (always desperately fighting to "save my savegame"), I've been suspecting at least 4 different mods temporarily for being the reason (among which were: Frostfall, Deadly Dragons, iHUD and Dynamic Vision, but never MHKP). All of these mods had - at some time - been "causing" weird effects, including weird log entries. I could - at least temporarily - reproduce the effects by activating/deactivating the specific mod. But in the end all of them were mostlikely false alarms. No matter how much energy I spent on it, I never managed to isolate the one culprit (in the end it was never by 100% reproducible). Therefore I am convinced that a Papyrus log error doesn't deliver evidence for a "bloating mod" at all. In the end, I just abandoned my savegames as "hopelessly corrupt for unknown reasons" and opted for the fresh install. In my case, you will notice that the MHKP entries - though they look like a vast list - only happen during initialization of the game, but they don't continue. That's why I believe that MHKP is not the culprit (still waiting for Spinner's answer, though)... :cool:

Are you refering to a specific entry? I admit that I haven't compared both logs line by line. I've mainly paid attention to everything related to MHKP, and I am uncertain whether these are really problematic (still waiting for an answer from the MHKP author, though). Several other entries in there (before and after) seem to be known vanilla bugs that can probably ignored. Is there anything else I've missed? I don't believe that every single error message in the Papyrus.log naturally indicates a savegame bloating risk. And during my previous issues (CTDs, script failures), bloating wasn't the problem at all. Last but not least, my current savegame has continually, but also very slowly, grown from approx. 4.2Mb to 5MB over about 20 saves. I consider this still normal and far from bloating, compared to my ealier bloating issues I experienced.

@Birgitte: A quick guess - such regular CTD, which happen in various different situations without obvious reason, usually point towards memory issues. This is caused by default game engine limitations and is thus absolutely independent on how powerful your computer is. To clarify: Do you have the 4GB patch installed? http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/3211 Once installed, you may want to use a free tool like Microsoft's/Sysinternal's Process Explorer (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx) to verify if your system actually uses more than 2GB of memory. I had such CTD issues frequently in Oblivion until I applied the patch. HTH [EDIT] Maybe my suggestion with the 4GB patch was a bit of a quickshot! AFAIK, the 4GB patch is deprecated in the meantime, because one of the more recent game updates should have solved this by now. Nevertheless, it may still be helpful to check with Process Explorer.

And here's one more from my side (I promided to report back). After setting up my absolutely clean install, once I've installed MHKP (More Hotkeys Please), my Papyrus.log looks irritatingly similar as before. I've already posted this to the MHKP thread: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/772219-more-hotkeys-please/page-133&do=findComment&comment=7611419 Right now I suppose that this is a minor flaw in MHKP that probably does no harm. But if so, it would indicate that those "ghost scripts" in my original logs probably were not the reason for the problem. I'll have to go on playing and observe whether I'll also run into the same problem again (like jones81). What strikes my eye in the first place are that there are new error log entries from DLC Dragonborn in both our logs (yes, jones81, I am having them, too!): [03/19/2013 - 01:09:02AM] [DLC2RieklingRescuePlayerScript <alias Player on quest DLC2RieklingRescue (04038C07)>]ProcessingHit OnBeginState() Calling RollForRieklings() and RegisterForSingleUpdate() to reset OnHit Event Capture [03/19/2013 - 01:09:02AM] [DLC2RieklingRescuePlayerScript <alias Player on quest DLC2RieklingRescue (04038C07)>]ProcessingHit OnBeginState() WasProjectile: TRUE [03/19/2013 - 01:09:02AM] [DLC2RieklingRescueScript <DLC2RieklingRescue (04038C07)>]RollForRieklings() [03/19/2013 - 01:09:02AM] [DLC2RieklingRescueScript <DLC2RieklingRescue (04038C07)>]RollForRieklings() chance: 25.000000, roll: 31.000000 [03/19/2013 - 01:09:02AM] [DLC2RieklingRescuePlayerScript <alias Player on quest DLC2RieklingRescue (04038C07)>]OnHit() akProjectile: [PROJECTILE < (000252C6)>] [03/19/2013 - 01:09:02AM] [DLC2RieklingRescuePlayerScript <alias Player on quest DLC2RieklingRescue (04038C07)>]OnHit() akSource: [Form < (000252C2)>] [03/19/2013 - 01:09:02AM] [DLC2RieklingRescuePlayerScript <alias Player on quest DLC2RieklingRescue (04038C07)>]OnHit() WasProjectile: TRUE [ I wonder whether there's some general problem with Dragonborn? So should we be waiting for the next official and unofficial patches rather than rushing ahead? :cool:

Skyrim is an open, modding-friendly game. That makes it "fragile" by nature. Flexibility means fragility. From this point of view, only console games can be (comparably) stable. I still believe that the savegame corruption thing discussed here is not an issue of Skyrim itself, but of the uncontrollable effect of having multiple mods. Theoretically, if I uninstall any mod in an absolutely proper way, the remaining files should be absolutely identical to a clean installation. It's self-explaining that this doesn't also clean savegames that are already corrupted. But a fresh game start (i.e. with a new character, starting all over from Helgen) should then be "clean" at least. That's what I did. And it failed. However, I don't understand much about what the Papyrus engine does in the background from game session to game session (maybe it's caching scripts in strange places, deep inside the installation directory, even when starting a new playthrough?). Maybe that's another possible reason for such leftovers. But then it should be possible to even cleanup this, if only we knew where these files are. Anyway, I am already reinstalling. Let's see if I'll be happier afterwards...

AFAIK: No :( That's the simple answer. You may have heard of the troublesome discussions around Cliffworm's "Sounds of Skyrim" mods, which have become a famous example of what can (irreversibly!) happen to savegames when a mod is buggy in certain ways: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/730926-you-need-to-uninstall-sounds-of-skyrim/page-18 A less simple answer would be: Yes, there MIGHT be ways to fix this, but this would require knowledge from the mod author, or at least from other excellent modders. A good skyrim mod is one that provides an uninstallation component which will cleanly disable any script that the mod has added, so that subsequent saves are clean. So I suppose that there must be some way to "reeingineer" a mod in a similar way: I guess one would have to dig into it in CK, find out (by comparison with the Papyrus logs) which scripts are causing the corruptions, and then creating a "patch mod" with specific scripts that disable the problematic scripts in your savegame. But that's only theory. Never heard of anybody who has managed to do such a thing. For instance, should you find a way to do this for Cliffworm's SoS mods, you'll definitely be everybody's hero! :biggrin: Read the above thread for details.

I do not doubt this. I am aware that there's a risk of corruptions (caused by mods) being persisted in savegames, and another risk that scripted mods not uninstalled properly can cause ghost scripts to remain inside the save. What I still don't understand is: How can all of this happen in a complete new playthrough, where I have disabled every mod at first, and then added other mods step-by-steps (always with testing in between), and have never uninstalled or upgraded any of these mods? In other words: It all started form a (IMHO) clean save, and since then there haven't been any improper uninstalls or whatever that might have caused these ghost scripts. Looking at my log, I see several mods in there for which I can absolutely claim that I haven't touched them even once after installing them. How is it possible that corruptions are infused from an earlier playthrough to a subsequent one, given that I've fulfilled all these rules? I cannot really believe that such a thing is (theoretically) possible, though I know that mods may do weird things to my installation and sometimes even the mod author isn't aware of it. What I do believe, however, is that I've probably screwed something up during my "cleanup attempt", missed some important things etc. That's why I've decided to give in to the tedious "install everything from scratch" solution. I guess this is still a comparably gentle punishment for my horrible mod amassment over months! :biggrin:

@BirgitteSilverbow: - Have you done all of this from a freshly installed game? I assume that because you mention that you've moved to a new machine lately. - And did these loading screen hangs happen right from the start, or only after a certain time and number of mod installations? - And even more important: Did these freezes happen in earlier playthroughs as well? These things would be quite interesting for me to know. In my case, I started a new playthrough from a "manually cleaned" installation, i.e. I manually uninstalled every single mod and reinstalled them step by step (at first starting in Helgen with only the very basic texture replacers, and then adding other, more complex mods), until I had 80% of my original mod list restored by the time when I was in Whiterun. My new playthrough worked fine for about 2 ingame hours, and then the freezing started to occur again, accompanied by sporadic CTDs, failures of script mods like MHKP etc. By "again" I mean: All of this had already been a problem in my preceding playthrough! So, honestly, this looks to me like there are still some inconsistent/corrupt leftovers I hadn't been aware of. As reported in the other thread linked in my post above, my savegame was full of ghost scripts by that time, and I have no idea where they come from, because I hadn't updated anything in the meantime. That's why I've decided to give in and follow the general "reinstall Skyrim" recommendation (currently in progress of doing so). I am a bit annoyed by it, of course, because this is just a plain"kill all" approach, with no guarantee that it will actually work, and - even worse - without being able to understand the cause of the problem. But anyway, I'll believe that playing a highly modded game (especially with frequent updating and reinstallation of heavily scripted mods) naturally bears this risk. I'll report back as soon as I can see whether it has solve the issue for me or not.

Thx for your aswer, korum. Well, you're right with the ghost scripts. I've noticed them myself already, but I was uncertain about how to interpret them. They all derive from mods which I have completely uninstalled and reinstalled prior to starting my new game. In fact, I have uninstalled every single mod prior to restarting! Maybe it was too optimistic to expect that this would produce a clean state. I'd hoped that there was a way round a fresh installation... :(

I am havin similar issues. as reported here (including logs etc.) http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/941621-again-and-again-freezes/page-2&do=findComment&comment=7603805 My game version is the latest 1.8.something (i.e. the very latest 1.8.x version, revalidated via Steam just yesterday, so I assume there's nothing outdated with my basic game files).

A little bump/update: Seems that other are having these issues as well. See here: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/941621-again-and-again-freezes/page-2&do=findComment&comment=7603805