JacobBruce

In response to post #72246653. I've been modding long before NMM existed and I've developed a process that I like to follow when refining my load order. I'm not going to continue trying to justify why manual sorting has benefits, clearly some people don't find any value in it. The sorting rules work well for me on some setups I have, but there are other setups where it becomes annoying and tedious to create all the rules necessary, I even started to get conflicting rules at one point and decided it was just far easier to manually sort the load order exactly how I want it. This is especially true when I'm creating mods and I have a bunch of patches to deal with it's often simpler and quicker to manually sort things the way I want. Once again, both approaches have their advantages like most things in life. Your own experiences don't broadly apply to everyone, just because it does everything you need doesn't mean that's true for everyone else. It has nothing to do with hating change, as I've said multiple times the new way has its advantages, it's more about having flexibility. If the aim is to make Vortex a powerful and user friendly tool I'd say manual sorting is an obvious feature to add for people who just want to make quick drag-and-drop changes to their load order without having to mess around with rules.

In response to post #72232503. As far as I can tell there is no simple drag-and-drop method for manually sorting the load order, you can create rules and disable auto sorting but that requires more effort which is why myself and many others here still use NMM to manually sort our load order in situations where it's preferable.

In response to post #72220143. Just to be clear I'm not complaining, I'm mostly trying to provide some reasoning for the other side of the argument. Personally I do like using Vortex and with my New California setup I let Vortex completely manage my load order and it works nicely. However, once again, there are situations where I prefer to have manual control over the load order so I know exactly what forms are being overwritten and control when the load order changes. Typically I do use LOOT to sort my load orders but after that I like to handle it all manually, saving my previous load orders to debug issues and create the most stable load order possible. That's only one potential case, there are multiple other situations where manual sorting is preferable, these situations may not be common for the everyday mod user but they exist and have been expressed by many members here. What I really don't understand is this insistence that one way is completely superior and the "old way" must be forgotten, I just don't think that's valid or logical. The simplest solution would be an option to enable "manual load order sorting" for those who really want that feature, but once again it's not a huge concern for me because there are other ways to sort my load order without Vortex.

In response to post #72188123. #72193033, #72193288 are all replies on the same post. Like I said, I only use it for my games which are already set up with NMM, I use Vortex for my newer setups. However for those of us who have more experience with modding and we understand the file overwriting process that NMM uses, it's a perfectly usable way to manage mods and it's not based on pure luck at all. And I still do use NMM to manage my Skyrim SE load order even though I use Vortex to install mods for Skyrim SE. As many people have pointed out there are benefits to having more control over your load order, especially if you're an experienced modder or mod maker. I can understand if you don't want to implement it on Vortex but refusing to acknowledge the benefits in it is silly.

"considering the mess that NMM was (and still is) in" I don't really agree with this, the Community Edition is working fine for me with a complex FO4 setup and Vortex isn't perfect either. The manual control over the load order NMM provides is kind of nice to have too. However I do use Vortex for my more recent modded games and I do see the advantages to how it works, overall it is a better approach that helps reduce issues. The way you can create rules for which files get overwritten is nice. But I still see advantages to both NMM and Vortex in certain cases, one thing I can't seem to do in Vortex is simply export my load order. I like to save my load order any time I change it so I can go back and compare my current load order to my previous load orders if necessary. I get why you cannot import a load order but an export function would be good.

I didn't find an alternative way to solve the CK issue, I just realized that I could fix the bug in my mod without the CK. It is my first mod and I didn't realize that the scripts are completely separate from the esp, I thought I needed the CK to update the scripts in the esp but they don't get embedded into the esp. However there is an alternative solution, which is to download the last version of the CK if you can find it and use the exe file from that.

Thanks for the info I'm sure it will help out some people, although I was able to fix my problem without the CK.

OMG who at Bethesda thinks this crap is a good idea... I've been unable to update my mod which I just released because of this issue and it has a fairly serious bug that needs to be fixed. My mod relies on two other mods that have not been updated in a while and I don't have permission from all mod authors to merge everything into one mod. This is going to prevent every single mod which has an esp master from being updated without also altering the master list. This is completely ridiculous nonsense and whoever thought this was a good idea needs to be immediately fired. I get the point of wanting esp's to be plugins as intended but you cannot suddenly change something that a great deal of mods rely on. This better be fixed.

Well the CK is a lot smaller than I thought so I was able to reinstall it in just a few minutes. Didn't help however... issue still remains. I've been using the exact same process for the last week to edit my mod and not once has it had this issue until the recent update.

Did you guys who don't seem to have the problem get an update for your CK before trying? Did you make sure to test it with esp's flagged as esm's? It would help to know whether reinstalling the CK might help but I don't want to waste my time if it wont. I tried validating the CK files and that didn't seem to help either.

Well at least it's not just me... still getting the issue today after restarting my machine. Really don't have a clue how to solve this and it's annoying the crap out of me because my first mod has a bug and needs to be updated.

I did re-edit my ini file after the update because I guessed that might be the cause of my problem. But it didn't seem to fix my issue... and if that was the issue shouldn't it say multiple masters cannot be loaded? I just tried adding a CreationKitCustom.ini file with the following contents but it didn't help either.

Considering it was working for me yesterday and then stopped working after the update today I don't see how this is an old issue and there's nothing on the last two pages about it. I know the CK will remove master files if the master esp's aren't marked as esm's. Did you even read my full post, how lazy can you be?

Just as the title says, all the masters are stripped from my esp when I save. The master files are esp's but it wont work even if I have them marked as esm's. Up until now I was using the "Esmify Self" feature of Wrye Bash to make CK recognize and keep the master files, but now it wont. The new CK update added a new feature related to "light masters". I even tried using the option "Convert Active File to Light Master" in the CK but that didn't seem to work either. I also made sure bAllowMultipleMasterLoads=1 was in my CK ini file.

I'm not sure what you mean, survival mode already includes an infection and disease system which requires antibiotics to heal and it has a primary needs system. But yes I agree weapons should be hard to find and craft, and the supermutants and mutant dogs would fit with a zombie apocalypse theme. Now that I think about it, so would most of the other enemies in FO4. Radscorpions, radroaches, deathclaws, mirelurks, they all fit the backstory I have proposed because it involves creatures mutated by radiation.