theMetamancer

In response to post #43657550. #43682615, #43698255 are all replies on the same post. @ Tbrown36 Not exactly. You have to own the original plus all DLC first, which was _not_ free.

In response to post #43665080. I too am worried about Skyrim modding being split not just in two but into three incompatible camps: PC-Regular, PC-SE and Console. We know there are differences between Regular and SE on the PC, due to the 64-bit changes. It means PC-SE mods can be larger than the limits on the Regular version, but SE on consoles have to be dumbed down to fit their even greater resource limits. It means a mod author has to consider developing up to three different versions of their mod. Just getting one mod out can be a pain, now they're facing having to manage up to three versions? (I haven't even begun to touch the nuances between Nexus, Steam Workshop and Beth.net) I think this will force some to simplify their headaches by trying to focus on as few versions as they can get by with -- I don't think that bodes well for the long-term prospects of our community. I have this little, but growing fear that Regular adherents will more and more be given short shrift by some MAs, by being forced to accept console quality assets if they're given any consideration at all. I hope I'm wrong.

I think I have stressed that it is a subset of console owners who are the thieves in this Beth-net controversy. And I will include in that number not only the PC-owning perps who actually performed the heists in the first place, but all of those stolen mod "consumers" who not only defend such criminal activity but attack the MA's with as much mindless venom and vitriol as we've ever seen on the Interwebs. THESE people are the problem, albeit a small but very vocal minority of all console owners, but whose actions threaten the very idea of console mods. But your generalized lumping of all of the "PC master race" in that group of pirates? BS, dude. You take one fallacy and assert an even bigger one. For the record, I own a PC and a gaming console, does that make me a member of the plebs or the master race? Either way, it doesn't freaking matter I game on both. I am not one opposed to mods on consoles by any means, but not at the expense of PC's, and right now this attitude we're getting from that vocal, minority bunch of *sshats is threatening Modding for everyone. Beth needs to get their shyt together and real soon -- and not "months" from now.

I'm not going to argue with the wide variance between skill sets, as I agree with your point. But I would argue that the vast majority of those who are currently doing the mod stealing do not even have the capability or the wherewithal or the patience for even the simpler DRM cracking you have described. And for most that do, some will decide it's not worth the effort. The bottom line is that pirating FO4 mods has been made far, far too easy right now. The barriers to entry are far too minimal, and the potential consequences are... inconsequential. For one, the CK, for all its warts, makes ripping another's work all too easy. And with nary the effort put into curating the resulting content, it's no wonder pirating is so rampant. Even a weak, easily breakable DRM would thwart 90% of them. But Beth doesn't even tie the upload account to a verifiable real world identity, and doesn't even bother with IP tracking either, thereby allowing the miscreants full anonymity and no means to perma-ban them. I am just flummoxed by how they could have not taken two seconds to consider any of this prior to opening the flood gates.

The veteran MA's are free to correct me, but one of the chief reasons that paid modding was rescinded was because of the firestorm that arose from the modding community not only when formerly free mods were being put behind a paywall, but many of the paid mods had content in them with questionable ownership issues (due to various reasons). And I am certain Valve and Beth were also concerned with the possibility that even some of the paid mods might end up being outright pirated as well, and thereby being liable to the mod authors for failing to secure their mod store properly. It's a very thorny, complicated subject that none of the decision makers seemed to have paid any attention to going in. And it's not as if other industries hadn't handled such matters themselves already and worked out workable solutions (see e-Publishing, app stores and the like,). My beef is that with console mods, as with the paid mod fiasco, Beth not only tried to re-invent the wheel, it was still just a half-arsed effort. The "wheel" in this case had just had a hub and spokes, but no rim, making for a helluva' bumpy ride.

While you are complaining about over generalization of the console crowd, let's not under specify the exact parties involved as well. The mod thieves are a subset of the console crowd, while the mod authors are a subset of the PC community. The thieves undoubtedly have PCs of their own, but I seriously doubt if 99.9999% have a freaking clue about programming (or how the real world works), let alone cracking DRM. If you were to pit each of these two subsets for their respective communities against the other, I think we can safely say that the mod thieves would be absolutely overwhelmed. They'd be farts in the wind against atom bomb explosions. I am not crazy about DRM myself, but I am open minded about its possible merits. Would any DRM scheme be 100% bullet-proof? Hell, no. But I am pretty certain that it would raise the cost of entry for the thieves and reduce the level of trafficking in stolen mods, perhaps to the degree that Beth might be able to properly curate their user-created content in a timely fashion. The other consideration is this: IF Beth really wants to reintroduce paid modding at some point, even they would have to recognize that their plans would be all for naught if the rampant level of mod theft we see persists. (And I find their weak response to this all the more intriguing, as I am pretty sure that if Valve took the same reaction to, say, people lifting copies of the actual game and DLC's off the Steam servers, Beth would be up in arms too. IOW, they take their own IP rights very seriously, so why not those of the MA's?)

You guys rock!