CrapsterZ

Well, I'll give you that, but I never believed that Loghain was resolved right from the bat to let Cailan die, that he only TOTALLY "accepted" that the king's death was necessary when the king proved to be foolish and naive (again, my point about being a poor wartime leader.) If you take into account the time it took for you to recover after Tower of Ishal, and getting to Lothering ON FOOT (plus the fact that you would've been delayed in traveling out of the Wilds, since you're trying to avoid the horde), 2 weeks doesn't seem that implausible to have occured after Ostagar. There are definite inconsistencies, I will admit - Jowan having been bribed to poison Eamon, but between his escape and capture and Loghain's proposition for him it just doesn't seem likely that Eamon was poisoned for two weeks and prior to Ostagar (maybe he paid off Jowan before he arrived at Ostagar, but I think that is highly unlikely) I think his Plan A was not the one he executed and he did plan on helping to win the battle right up to a point (in Ostagar) where he decided the king was not going to be a capable leader during the Blight and saw that he was the only one able to do the job. Possibly. I still believe that when you first meet him he was not dead set on letting the king fall, perhaps undecided about the plan, maybe.

Heh, thanks. I think that's the first time anyone has ever given me credit for my thoughts, people usually just get pissed off xD And well, admittedly I haven't played through the dwarf origins seriously, so my thoughts my change.

I believe the blood and ritual simply transforms it the taint in the DS to that similar to the Wardens - that they can still hear the Calling, but are no longer compelled by it as other DS are. So is it simply the fact that the Wardens are both physically able to suppress the taint's corruption of their body for a time and a combination of sentience? After all, we know that DS are capable of some level of intelligence - the Emissaries and Alphas tell us that much. Perhaps the ritual and blood is simply "turning on" the free will part of the brain and perhaps tuning down the DS taint's 'power' inside of them and replacing it with the Warden taint. Of course, this begs the question - what is responsible for a race to be sentient and self aware? Is it simply a mental function or is it tied to having a soul? The former is more likely to be the foundation of DA's lore, since we know for sure that the DS are soulless and the ritual as far as we know doesn't involve giving them souls all of a sudden. So we have an intelligent, self-aware being that is at the same time soulless, then we'd also have to ask how exactly does DS magic work - since the DS have no souls and cannot enter the Fade, or do they have a different kind of connection to it (like Arcane Warriors and Fade Shroud?) from the Magisters' intrusion to the Golden City?

I've stated my views on Loghain before on another thread, and no doubt he is a villain in direct opposition to you in the game, but I can understand him. The Loghain vs Warden conflict highlights an important conflict we see throughout history - between the honorable and righteous path and the one where the ends justify the means. You as the player are the character which sees that the Blight must be stopped - but not at the expense of morality (depending on your choices in game anyway) - and Loghain is the ruthless leader who will do whatever it takes to see his flock of sheep safe, even if it means leaving some behind - even the most valuable one - to save the rest of the flock. I don't doubt for a moment that Cailan was a poor leader. As much as I got the idea he was an honorable and good king, I do agree with Loghain that his fascination with legends and glory did blind him to the dangers of the Blight - and that he was a poor wartime leader. He was right to say that their quarrels with Orlais were a thing of the past and that seeking aid from them might not necessarily be as dangerous as Loghain claims, but he was a politician, not a general like Loghain was. Let's face it, throughout all of history the only kings we see riding into battle were either bred from a history of fighting or battle, or incredibly stupid. Granted, kings did go to the battlefield, but they hardly ever JOINED the battle - like Bann Teagan mentions, they are "skilled enough to know there are others far more capable". Cailan was blind to that, and Loghain was justified to think that Cailan was "a child wanting to play at war" as he likens the Warden to. Not saying that what he did was right, but if I were in Loghain's shoes I'd understand what must be going on through his mind "If the king wants to fight, I'll let him see how foolish it is, even if he dies. Let someone else smarter be king and lead the nation" Unfortunately, the someone was the Warden, and not him like he thought, which was why when you opt to execute him, he says "I can rest easy knowing Ferelden is good hands." He is humble enough at least, to admit defeat and recognize the merits of both a capable warrior and wartime leader ie, you, to accept his death - his most beloved, Ferelden, would be safe and he could rest easy. Loghain is a zealot who would turn against even his best friend and family for the greater good, though his means are by no means right, I can admire that in an adversary. I would have course say he was the true villain of the game, not the archdemon. (Dealing with the DS is simple: Kill. Loghain? How do you exactly go about defeating him WITHOUT the political repercussions against your order?) As for Howe's involvement, if you question him before you fight him, he does mention that another motivation was that Bryce Cousland supported the king's call for aid from Orlais, and Howe saw it as an act of treason for allowing them to even set foot in Ferelden, thus he and Loghain had similar goals. I don't believe that he was working with Loghain at all - since if we assume that all the origin stories occured at the same time (this we at least know since there are events in game that seem to indicate this) with varying results depending on who we play (ie, Jowan escapes the circle but his mage friend might not have been spared, if you're not a mage), then Arl Eamon's poison would've occured AFTER your origin story and sometime after Ostagar (Loghain was already there with the king and I'd highly doubt he'd be able to arrange for Jowan to be released from templar custody if he was in charge of the army there) Taking also into account that Morrigan tells you you've been unconscious for two-three days after Ostagar, and taking in the possibility that you would most probably not have gone directly to Lothering (remember that the horde is still in the Wilds) and taken detours along the way, we know that Arl Eamon was possibly poisoned after the battle of Ostagar and before your arrival in Lothering (where you find Ser Donall). Possibly a week or so, and it would make sense that the templars would've been somewhere in the area between Redcliffe and Lothering and Denerim, where Loghain would most probably have passed by when they caught Jowan, then we can say for certain that Eamon's poisoning was sort of a "last minute" plan, or at least, it wasn't Loghain's Plan A (which was, I believe, to really win the battle at Ostagar up till the point where he became convinced the king was not amenable to wisdom, as he puts it, as we clearly see in the strategy meeting cutscene) Alistair has his faults too, no matter how you look at it. He is unwilling to put the threat of the Blight above his vendetta against Loghain (ie, something he is SUPPOSED to do as a Warden), and storms off because of it. I like all the DA:O (well, most of them) main characters for the way they are, that no matter their alignment for or against you, each of them have their own personal motivations, fears and flaws that work for and against you. Back on topic, I'd say as to DA2's content, remember that Flemeth did warn the Warden during his task that "the threat is greater than they realize" could she simply referring to the Architect and his schemes or is she foreshadowing that the Blight is not truly over or that a greater evil is behind it? Remember that she also says Loghain believes the Blight is an army he can outmanoevre and does not recognize the true evil behind it, and she does NOT confirm Alistair's conjecture that it is the archdemon. Could it be that something else other than the Architect's plans caused the start of the Blight, or threatens to bring it back even before Ferelden has fully recovered? Very likely. Remember that everything Flemeth has mentioned in her dialogue with you has foreshadowed some part of the plot - she sends Morrigan saying that her magic will be useful (ie, keeping you alive after you slay the archdemon) and the line about her "paying Morrigan a visit" may well be a major plot point for introducing Morrigan in DA2, it seems the most plausible way to me, that Morrigan, regardless of whether the Warden has romanced her or accepted her offer to do the ritual, would turn to the Warden - who presumably has defeated Flemeth once and stood against the Blight - to keep her safe, child or no. BW has a habit of dropping clues in the most mundane places, so it's really nice to try and dissect everything they tell you in the game and how they phrase it.

My favourite would be human noble, the environment was extremely immersive, especially after modding it with the Noble origin mod that actually makes you feel like a real noble. And you have utterely no reason to join the Wardens at the end as well - your family is doomed to certain death and you can do nothing about the traitor except to run and survive. For all the other origins, joining the Wardens is an escape of sorts, but in the human noble origin, fate really called at a bad time. And it affects the rest of the story for you - you are out to stop the Blight after just having lost your entire family to the right hand man of the same general that betrayed the Wardens, my only gripe is that the conflict between your desire for revenge and your duty as a Grey Warden didn't come out as much (only at the start of Lothering when Alistair asks you what you plan to do and in your conversations with Wynne as far as I have noted). Dalish Elf - meh, only kick I got out of it was getting to execute the shems at the start in an utterly badass fashion. The rest of it was rather boring and plain. Joining the Grey Wardens was a choice between losing your clan or your life, not a big choice and you're basically forced into it by your elder. City Elf - Okay, I like the way the human-elf relations turned out but it makes no sense that you fight through an arling full of armed guards and survive but can't dodge a simple blow from an arl's son (who probably can't fight any better than those guards) and not to mention the drama from Duncan invoking the Right of Conscription is kind of watered down. As the city guard, I wouldn't just let the elf who murdered the arl's son just be gone that easily. The Grey Wardens are said to use the Right of Consciption sparingly for fear of political reprisal, I didn't see this being brought out in this origin. Not to mention that the "wedding" thing was kind of dumb to begin with. Magi - Annoying as hell. I become tool whether I decide to be loyal to the Circle or help a friend. The Harrowing, for its exaggerated danger, seemed overly easy. Not the "you're a really skilled mage with lots of potential" easy, but a "this is supposed to be a true test of ability?" easy. The pride demon leaves you alone and says "true tests never end" - I don't see the demon coming back to make you a deal or challenge you later in the story at all. Dwarf Noble - Underwhelming. That's all I'm going to say. Dwarf Commoner - Possibly a second favourite, losing only to the human noble origin in terms of immersion in environment. The environment just didn't make me feel like I was Casteless and unwanted member of society. It felt as if I was no different from the other dwarves with Castes. I suppose this is kind of hard to pull off, but I just didn't have the "feeling" I did with the human noble origin - that I really felt like my character would've in this situation.

Actually, Loghain isn't some scheming villain. If you listen carefully to the strategy meeting at Ostagar and talk to him before you are sent out into the Wilds, Loghain actually does seem to want to win the battle. His betrayal of the king was likely a last minute decision for several reasons: A) He feels that Cailan is a failure as king when facing the threat of the Bight. Remember that Loghain didn't want him to fight on the battlefield nor did he approve of Cailan's decision to ask Orlais for aid. Also there is the fact of Cailan's fascination "with glory and legends" and that he "relied on the Grey Wardens too much". He obviously felt Cailan was a poor wartime leader. B) He did place men in the tower, we know that simply because we see tower guards fighting darkspawn and corpses scattered throughout the tower of Ishal when we go to light the beacon. It was likely that Loghain interpreted the late lighting of the beacon as an indication that something had happened in the tower or the king/Wardens had delayed the lighting intentionally and then decided to pull out his forces because he felt the cause was lost and even if they did win the battle, they would likely just delay their defeat with Cailan in charge. I see his actions following Ostagar as a plan that was quickly thought up to secure his power and prevent the Wardens from coming after him for quitting the field, so he could face the Blight on his own. He is a ruthless antagonist that actually believed he was doing the right thing right up until the point where the Warden defeats and he realizes that the Warden was a strong leader, remember that he says he thought the Warden was "like Cailan, a child wanting to play at war" when you defeat him. Right up to his very end, he believed that he was doing everything for the good of Ferelden, and I really liked him both as a villain and the thought of him as an ally (I still kill him though, there's no way I'm sparing him and letting Alistair leave D: ) He represents, to me, the most dangerous kind of villain, the kind that believes they are in the right and will anything to achieve their ends. Zealots are much more dangerous than mindless monsters.

That, and I think you forget to mention that nobody wants to have their village wiped out by an inferno if they don't pay their taxes/express an opposing view/does something the king doesn't like.

And some really cool modded items there I see :D My favourite would possible be the in the cutscene you see after Eamon is restored (or is it after dealing with demon possessed Connor?) where the villagers are honoring their dead, the lake + white boats and the way they cremate the bodies reminds me a lot of LOTR and the scene is awesome :D Least favourite would be the Circle of Magi tower. Very ugly, very out of place.

I'm a major cheater, I will admit to that. I use the Starter Booster set which gives me 1k+ damage (from crits all the time...) and +500 all attributes. I stopped using this on my current playthroughts, I'm determined to finish the game without godlike damage for once, or maybe at least until the archdemon battle (I'm not intending to go through that poo again) I almost definitely just let my character hit level 25 by the time I finish Broken Circle/Redcliffe (my first two missions). Oh, and Skip the Fade mod. I can't live without that one. Just having to go through all that crap again makes me want to puke, the difficult choice between wanting to collect the stats (so I can get my 16 cunning on warriors/mages for Coercion without adding any points in it) and not wanting to waste all that time. I've unlocked most of the achievements except disabling 25 traps (I just can't be bothered, mostly I just run straight through since they're minor annoyances) and the job board/liaison quest completion ones, which I'm going to try and complete on this playthrough with my female human noble rogue. I end up using the debugger while doing Nature of the Beast, since it's really tiresome. Orzammar was kind of annoying too, I skip the part where you have find Jarvia and kill her. Oh, and the Grey Warden castle has become my new camp (unless I wish to shag Alistair or Zev, then I go to the actual camp) Items wise, I use: Leliana Item Set for DW Rogues Devout Armor for Leliana Grey Warden Runic Armor for Warriors Custom weapons from the Dark Blades mod (looks much cooler) Sylvias Robe on Morrigan (again, from the Dark Blades mod) I don't really use WF, it's just way too complicated for my liking. That's about it, I don't really use Zev, Sten or Oghren. I've never played BM on my main character either. I'm kind of a purist so using hp to cast spells as a mage when I'm not exactly well-endowed in the defense/armor department seems stupid for me, maybe I'll try that on the next playthrough. I'm experimenting with new spells I've never used before (man, I can't believe I've never used Virulent Walking Bomb before, it's a major life and time saver when you turn off FF) Oh, and I start off with about 1K gold from selling arrows that come with the Booster set, and end with about 800+ gold from spending on equipment (the mods are bought from Bodahn, so..)

I would toss multiple fire bombs into the room in the Circle where the Sloth Demon so it'd die before it could send me into the stupid Fade.

Death Knight seems a little overpowered, perhaps adding some debuffs or lowering some buffs would be better

You have to be in a romance with Alistair, I think. Not sure if you need to be at "love" though. To rule beside you need to pass a persuasion check as well, so if your Coercion skill is maxed out you should have no worries.

I think Flemeth plays the sort of "anti-hero" role in DA. Her intentions are good, despite her possession by a demon. Perhaps her means and intentions are the result of the conflict between the human and the demon within her? Possibly. She did warn the Grey Wardens that the Blight poses a greater threat than the Grey Wardens realise. (My theory is that she knows of the Architect and his role in the Blight that occured in DA:O) and hands them the treaties. This raises two theories for me: 1) Flemeth actually has been manipulating events from the get go. She definitely has a lot of questionable actions, and I question whether the Grey Warden Cache we were first sent to locate truly wore off a long time ago or that Flemeth had stole the treaties so she could get the Grey Wardens to come and find her, which would also make sense as to why Morrigan was spying on their progress in the first place - Flemeth sent her out as a scout. 2) Flemeth has no ulterior motive but to ensure that the Blight is stopped, despite her questionable actions as I mentioned before. Take into account that she is willing to risk Morrigan dying on the journey at the hands of darkspawn ("I give you what I value above all else") and that she chose to save the two newest recruits of the Grey Wardens. Why the main character and Alistair specifically? If she had that kind of power surely she could have saved the other Wardens as well (at least gotten them out of the battle if not bringing them back to her hut, remember that Morrigan was "watching the battle" and did nothing as well, perhaps on her instructions?) I attribute this to the fact that Duncan knows about Flemeth, and that when Alistair mentions Morrigan and her mother to Duncan when you return from the Wilds, and we only get to learn Morrigan's name but not Flemeth's, it could be a intentionally missed out detail to at least ensure we don't mention the name to Duncan, who would then suspect something is up (and I also question how the main character and Alistair would forget to mention her warning of the threat of the Blight, that was just asking to get raped in the butt.) Taking into account that Morrigan says Flemeth gave her the ritual and if you question her about she tells you that the Old God's soul is something worth preserving, I'd surmise that Flemeth's intention is simply to have Morrigan bear a child with the soul of the Old God with the Warden, and if rumors regarding Alistair are true - a child immune to the taint - we have a being with the Old God's soul who is no longer able to tainted by the DS, which serves two goals: 1) Preserving the Old Gods, whether they are really gods or not, it is undeniable they have great power and making them immune to the taint, and from my conjecture regarding magic - that it is tied to the spirit rather than body, the Old God is able to use the "siren call" to control the DS as well. Meaning you effectively have a sapient being capable of controlling the DS without the need for destroying the lands. Flemeth might simply use this as a way to prevent them from reaching the remaining Old Gods and tainting them and keeping the DS away from the other races, or she could want to manipulate the child to unleash an army of DS upon the lands (the latter I doubt, since the Warden is at least capable of subduing her if not killing her outright, and the child could just as well turn on her) 2) A powerful ally against future Blights, or the Architect (assuming the premise that the Warden didn't kill him). Immune to the taint and with the powers of an Old God? Even if the child could not control the DS he'd be virtually unstoppable against them, reason enough to conceive him. This plan was however, foiled when Morrigan learned of Flemeth's plans to possess her, and getting the Warden to kill her. Which is why she tries to make a deal with the Warden instead of just attacking him outright like she does with anyone else who hunted her in the past. She wishes to live and despite her insinuations that she will hunt down Morrigan, it may simply be to confront her about the chilld, since at that point the Warden doesn't know of Morrigan's intentions yet, and Flemeth is still playing her manipulation game with the Warden. To that end, she would be willing to give away the actual Grimoire to Morrigan or the Warden because it is a small sacrifice to a larger goal - getting the soul of an Old God, whether her intentions are as I have theorised or not. If we believe that Flemeth is actually an "anti-hero", that is, that she is one of the good guys despite her actions and ruthlessness, then her actions of possessing the daughters to prolong her life makes sense, she is prolonging so that she may help the heroes (including Maric, Duncan and the Wardens in Calling and Stolen Throne) in a future way past her time, since we know that she does at least have some degree of precognition. Remember that her deal with the demon was that she would "trade her future for power", she could have well chosen to become an immortal corpse, not taking a new body once her revenge was sated, which might be what the deal entail in the first place. We do not know for sure if the demon gave Flemeth the ability to possess her daughters or if it is a ritual she came up with herself using the demon's power so she could serve her goals to that end. Whether one believes Flemeth is good or bad, I think the point here is that she is far more cunning than she leads us to believe and I'm guessing the details Flemeth reveals to us directly as well as through Morrigan is but the tip of the iceberg for her plans.

I kill him simply because I can't bear to let Alistair leave (come on, Alistair and Morrigan's comic relief OVER Loghain? Are you kidding me?) If I were the Warden, however, I would not necessarily have spared him. But like Arl Eamon said, one's ability to be see reason as the victimised party is strained. I would leave his fate to the Landsmeet and let the nobility decide his fate (or Alistair, as king). I am, however, disappointed with BW that they did not include an option for that, or for us to convince Alistair to stay on as well. SURELY in the entire journey, where we could persuade STRANGERS to fight in battles against their own inclinations (Loyd, Dwyn) and similarly for Leliana to stay in the party after tainting the Ashes, we'd be persuasive enough to convince Alistair, the character's closest friend and companion to give Loghain a second chance? I understand the need for drama, but it seems a little inconsistent. I guess in the end I just can't have the best of both worlds ):

I think Zev did mention his mother had several relations with men, so we don't exactly know if his father was really human, which is likely not, considering him being an elf.

Maybe but we all know that Leliana is talking out of her arse; the Spirit Guardian called her on it too... Is it wrong how much I enjoyed hearing the Guardian do that? Don't get me wrong, I like Leliana and think she is great, but sometimes I just roll my eyes at her when she goes on and on! But I think, with her at least, she really was trying to change her life and be a 'better person', it's just that she really couldn't change completely deep down even if she was trying to tell herself otherwise. My thoughts on that anyway! But yeah, I do agree that her ideas of the Chantry are way better than the Chantry itself! She is more like ... the um ... what do you call it people ... gosh I'm blank! But you know the churches that have every kind of people from tattoed up to gay and no one thinks anything of it, just fully accepting and usually have really loud and wild services. ... gosh I am so blank on what I heard someone call them once! But anyway, that is how I see Leliana's views on how things should be, just with a medieval twist! I believe you're referring to Charismatic churches. And it's not that no one thinks anything of them, it's just that Christianity is about loving the sinner and hating the sin, exemplified by Jesus during his life (dining with tax collectors and talking to prostitutes, etc). There's this quote that says "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than standing in a garage makes you a car." This is what Leliana (despite being totally wrong about her 'vision') represents - the idea of the New Testament in the Bible, that God loved mankind even despite our sins and sent Jesus His Son (in DA, mirrored by Andraste, who is called the Bride of the Maker) to die for us on the cross (Andraste's death by fire) while the Chantry represents the Pharisees who thought themselves "superior" because they thought their actions and deeds made them holy (similar to how Leliana describes some of the Chanters about them living in the Maker's sight.) as well as the Catholic church in medieval times (and yes, the judgmental "holier-than-thou" people who claim to be Christians, as a Christian myself, I find these people absolutely hypocritical as well) It is also interesting to note that debate as to whether Andraste was really the Bride of the Maker or just a really powerful mage is also similar to debates to Jesus' divinity in the early ages of Christianity and also the difference between Islam (which says Jesus was a prophet) and Christianity. I'd advise against using the Chantry as the exact representation of Christianity though. Keep in mind that this is an RPG and there will always be critical differences between Thedas and Earth :) That said, the Chantry does provide an interesting element to the game and certainly adds flavor to the lore of Dragon Age. Annoying as some of the Chanters are, it's really amusing personally for me to go antagonize them (getting them to slip up and NOT quote the Chant of Light at me for once. Heh.)

Just throwing in another theory: The Grey Wardens definitely have a different kind of "taint" from the darkspawn, since we know that their blood can be used to create sapient darkspawn who are separated from the hive mind and Calling of the Old Gods. It could be that some property in the Wardens' biological make up or blood that transforms the taint to have the opposite effect of the darkspawn taint. This would explain why not all people are able to survive the Joining and why Grey Wardens are so formidable in battle - they carry that ability in the genes or blood. It could be possible that this gene or property were possessed by the Tevinter Mages who entered the Golden City, whether it became tainted by their sinful nature or their magic had gone awry in there, it caused some form of mutation that turned them into darkspawn instead of the usual Abomination. Perhaps there were demons even more powerful than Pride demons who only existed with the Golden City, or perhaps it has something to do with the Old Gods or the spirits of dragons in general, which could also explain how the Reavers gain their abilities from the High Dragon's blood. The Grey Wardens who had never been possessed by these spirits or been affected by whatever was or is in the Golden/Black City would be able to "suppress" this taint or transform it. This process could also explain the Calling - that the taint "evolves" within the Grey Wardens or perhaps kicks into full effect when they have their Calling, which transforms them into the darkspawn-hybrids. It also explains Avernus' research that allows Grey Wardens to access greater abilities through their tainted blood. It might also have a link to the Arlathan elves, since we know they walk the Fade during Uthenera (sp?) which might explain the quickening of the elves when the Tevinter Imperium showed up, though I don't really have an idea as to what that link could be. Perhaps the Golden City was where the elves went during their slumber and something happened there or that its taint caused by the Imperium magisters somehow cut off their immortality? Possibly. I'm not sure which occured first exactly, so this might be really shaky grounds. I'm not the biggest expert on DA lore so there may be some parts of the world that disproves my theory, but it's just my thoughts.