tartarsauce2

I think you have that backwards, you're trying to change what already exists and works without sufficient justification (I hear the arguments about higher quality but given what we know and see the math just doesn't add up to being better value for the increased cost to the community at large or dynamic) I've already provided some ideas on how to go forwards with a sort of monetization that wouldn't necessarily backfire as well - so insinuations towards a religious disposition don't work with me I'm more into culture at large and religion is just a part of that and given that my family history has some *pretty well off members* and I'm not doing so well, because I used to share your attitude, and found myself lacking in work ethic until I changed my considerations around... well I found this quote is helpful - that said the kinds of things I was working under/for weren't inspiring, so I found something that was that, something intrinsically rewarding and modestly secure financially - but based on the premise that work ethic yields the potential for rewards, not the promise treat them right or somebody else will, never think you're irreplaceable "As one might expect, hubris is not necessarily associated with high self-esteem but with highly fluctuating or variable self-esteem, and a gap between inflated self perception and a more modest reality. Hubris is usually perceived as a characteristic of an individual rather than a group, although the group the offender belongs to may unintentionally suffer consequences from the wrongful act. Hubris often indicates a loss of contact with reality and an overestimation of one's own competence, accomplishments or capabilities."

then I think it's safe to say that as a community we really don't need paid modding and we're fine with a hobbyist intention, the great power of intrinsically driven hobbyist communities is that even if they wouldn't have made it someone else would've *because they can* or they got sick of waiting for someone else to do it - we can do without prima donnas even if they do better work occasionally than the "average scrub" there's a reason that original anonymous "delivered" so often, and as for community, it exists, it exists throughout various websites, not just this one that kind of attitude still exists, even if the formal designation has been overrun with "I made pun meme I am funny, please clap" types of folks similarly, intrinsically driven quality production still exists despite the lame copycatting of lesser types, this all ties into what I said about reputation being king your contempt for the community, in this case so many who download but don't rate or donate etc, who ARE in fact buyers of bethesda's stuff, partially because there is access to mods, doesn't do it service, the free mods stuff is out there, if you don't like it don't make it, by this point it's become a free service to bethesda in a sense - as a way to support the system as a whole, maintenance, upkeep, whatever keeps the whole thing going if it becomes untenable people will stop modding, but don't expect others to make way for your dream career move when there's no reason to welcome to street busking, online edition, pander for patrimony, but offer an ugly face and you're never getting anywhere - this isn't the secure employment world here stop acting like the world owes you a job, you don't owe them service either Fiat voluntas tua means "Thy will be done." It is a quote from the Lord's prayer. A Canticle for Leibowitz is a post-apocalyptic science fiction novel by American writer Walter M. Miller, Jr., first published in 1960. Set in a Catholic monastery in the desert of the Southwestern United States after a devastating nuclear war, the story spans thousands of years as civilization rebuilds itself. 2.2 "Fiat Homo" (Let There Be Man)2.3 "Fiat Lux" (Let There Be Light)2.4 "Fiat Voluntas Tua" (Let Thy Will Be Done)and remember just how much of the music in game is common domain while you're at it https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/3mtmao/a_canticle_for_leibowitz_the_inspiration_for_the/

eh, false hope leads people to do things they otherwise wouldn't sometimes "A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon." - "a modder will work long and hard for the possibility of paid mods being a thing." -Napoleon Bonaparte really screwed them over but this is what happens when you don't think things through all the way to the end when initiating largescale changes to a situation - the validity of the idea at large being irrelevant to this part, but not thinking things through makes an otherwise valid theoretical conceptual idea invalid in reality [insert bush mission accomplished aircraft carrier picture here] the fact that we're posting is evidence of a community, so I don't understand this "community" quotations thing, and it was a debacle, not a "debacle" debacle- a sudden and ignominious failure; a fiasco. fiasco- a thing that is a complete failure, especially in a ludicrous or humiliating way. blindly charging at gold rushes leads to disappointment, my family history includes two people who did a lot of hard dangerous work for a long time to get famous, both pioneering in canada, one of them actually doing gold rush stuff before returning from it nearly starving, gold rushes ain't good, blindly rushing off to do large complicated things as if they're everyday chores ain't good - the other one was doing linguistics and cultural/anthropological work essentially and returned to england and got famous for it - in other words the framework for that market was already set up via the intellectual environment, etc *and* it was about the time the fur trade was expanding, the company he was working for in question had particular interest in being able to talk to people from those regions for business reasons - so interests naturally aligned, there's no sense in being bitter about perceived opportunities that don't actually exist, that's an error on the would-be opportunist's part not others') and yea, they're famous, and he kind of swindled newcomers in a sense lol, and this all has some amount of bearing on this whole topic, pioneering things in already existing communities takes a lot, and I mean a lot of work and hobbyists are not liable to fall sucker to snake oil they care too much and know too much - anyways this quotes excerpt is in regard to one (I've linked both family members though) of my family and his relation with one of the poor suckers intent on "gold rush" get rich quick style stuff - who recovered and realized it's not quite that easy and THEN succeeded The Livingston farm prospered. Becoming an example of the region’s agricultural potential, it was shown to visiting notables such as the Marquess of Lorne [Campbell*] and Alexander Mackenzie, and was used in publicity to attract prospective settlers. In the late 1860s Livingston had already begun to pioneer the agricultural development of the west by bringing the first pigs into the Saskatchewan country. In 1882 he brought the first threshing machine into the region, the following year he introduced the first binder, and in 1886 he imported 350 fruit trees from Minnesota. Livingston is also credited with pioneering the cultivation of different types of grass and the raising of cattle. To some degree Mackenzie and the Neils had fallen victim to roseate talk about the employability and high wages of stonemasons in the New World. Though Mackenzie was offered a job at Montreal, he and the Neils chose to move on to Kingston, where, it was rumoured, better pay was available. This mistaken notion, and rock that was too hard for his tools, inadvertently set the footings for Mackenzie’s business career as a general builder and building contractor. His ability to learn new skills quickly and his firm, direct way of handling workers rapidly enhanced his reputation. Over the next several years he served as a foreman or contractor on major canal and building sites in Kingston, http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/livingston_samuel_henry_harkwood_12E.html http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/howse_joseph_8E.html

update, because I need to be more cogent it appears from testing and doing finger counting to figure out how long it takes that the bolt action receiver gives properties that delay it, I've tried to add a 15 second attack delay to see if that affected it at all (because you can add properties in FO4edit and it seemed like a good possibility to get around the issue) ANYWAYS, I figured that with the stuff, if you press fire again after you press fire in scope mode it'll stop firing (so you can still do burst fire, it's still doable, but it's a little annoying sorta) in hipfire mode you have to hold fire button instead the bolt action mechanism appears to be the determinant for how long it takes between being able to fire automatic (thus the burst is sort of under your control heh - but the way to make this balanced is to make recoil annoying - the bolt-action pipegun already has a lot of it so yeah) another way is to lower the actual automatic firing speed itself (kachunk kachunk kachunk instead of ratatatatatat) the reload speed itself is about 1.5 times longer than the firing mechanism bolt animation would be, so you have some options in manipulating things it's not quite true to form, but with recoil, you'll naturally be trying to keep it in bursts unless you have the finned barrel the upshot of this is that it actually becomes useful for the bolt-action pipegun if used on it :devil: I also found what I hope are some potential leads in the VATS animation files under "camera shot" in the main fallout4.esm so far I have had no luck finding anything that would limit an automatic weapon to actually firing a short limited burst attack speed delay/secs in FO4Edit pertains to VATS attack speed delays, kablam... ... ... ... .. kablam! etc I'm done for the day oh, one more thing, another potential work-around is to have a very short wind-up phase with heavy recoil - in the properties section there's a thing called "holdinputtopower" a barely noticeable windup + heavy recoil could work as a way to interrupt firing just through natural player behaviour without being too jarring if done right, there's also the wind down, so it kind of works...in a weird way, if you're just starting a fight it'll be more noticeable but if you tend to do burst after burst in quick succession it'll be quite natural

microtransactions are a scourge and destroy every community they're in pretty much now - that and my general disdain for monetizing otherwise free hobbyist communities aside... I was talking with a friend on the phone about an idea I had to agregate various mods, have bethesda scrub through them, clean them up a little bit, bugtest/fix them, then put them together into a DLC that's actually notable in size - paying based on contribution via a portion or % per every 50-100 units sold (instead of calculating for every unit in real time - might screw someone over 5 dollars but I'm not entirely sure that matters if you can get a DLC that'll sell thousands of units - might be overthinking this aspect a bit, just an idea) would also probably appeal to console people more because it's "one buy, simple to grab" but they said the legal department would say no to that, my only thought was "tell the legal department to shut up and do their job not interfere with marketing" :ninja: I don't know if people have any understanding of what this as a business would take with a large corporation, liability is a serious issue in fact, that's why I said give it to bethesda to scrub, this starts getting into contractual obligations and so on territory though and if you try to short around it by doing it with already existing mods you get redundancy issues and the negative PR of taking things away from the community at large to sell things (if the mod is good enough to garner community approval it's probably not really able to be improved on much further which takes away from the things bethesda could do to make a release version of theirs better enough to get people really interested in actually buying - wasteland workshop's situation is an example in a sense of this issue - I'll be buying it myself later regardless though, once I've got enough money after paying bills to eat as well) I grew up with a parent who did contracts as a programmer for a living and worked at home a lot, he doesn't do contract work anymore, he works for a company, it's a lot simpler and safer for him monetary wise so there's a lot of issues with the entire idea of paid mods to begin with said person worked on some pretty big stuff too which I don't want to say in case any of it is something I'm not supposed to talk about, was mostly about databases, if they're facing the issue then modders will too, sorry make no mistake, I want to get good at modding so I can make a portfolio of work and start making games for a living or something down the line, or at least programming - myself but I seriously doubt that aside from content modders (people that put in new skins etc) that this paid mods thing would do a lot, fact is bethesda's sales points are generally speaking the creation kits + the large worlds, they bank on loyalty in a sense, this is exactly the wrong thing to be trying to get rich quick off of, it'll screw the entire relationship up - look at blizzard's desperation with WoW for instance, and what that fiasco with so much of diablo and starcraft led to, betrayal is not forgotten quickly - and reputation is king

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4322/? "Added experience-based damage boost to player, every 10K experience is +1% damage (This should fix enemies that keep getting stronger as you level up, while weapons remain the same, resulting in bullet sponge enemies)." find out what this magical spell is, then see if you can retool it based on level instead of experience I guess reverse engineer it

stupid me and titles, anyways, this should work in reverse as well, if you want to make a slower weapon... use a slower animation! (try making a switchblade as slow as a super sledge or wooden board) changed that one thing, started swinging a baseball bat like I was kylo ren having an autism ragefit (the "anything else?" one) - one handed though, so it's slightly limited to what already exists, still I didn't see any stabbing motions - so I think that part is handled by something else also changes transweapon to transweaponsmall as you can see (although I have no idea if that helps, but judging from what people are saying about swingspeed based on animation speed... who knows, but if you change only that and it doesn't work, try the transweapon thing too

it's an odd sort of thing, but it's real and it doesn't do any animation problems AFAIK I'm just posting right now SLIGHT ISSUE, IF AIMING DOWN SIGHTS, BURST WON'T END UNTIL MAGAZINE IS EMPTY IF HIP-FIRING, IT WILL TAKE TIME BEFORE YOU CAN FIRE AGAIN (about similar time to reload time, although I did change it to be shorter so it might actually be the bolt action thing, but probably not) I was looking to make the bolt action rifle's .38 receiver mod automatic, because I changed pipe guns of all types to use .38 naturally (for personal interest in balancing modifications etc I'm slowly experimenting to make an idea of the ultimate mod setup eventually) - note that pipe revolver is something like 35-38 damage, pipe bolt action is about 42-44 naturally, I upped hunting to 62 and normal .44 revolver to 48 (pipe guns are lesser versions but with cheaper ammo - not solidly for much atm but I'm working on an idea for a total overhaul to ALL BALANCE ingame once I'm done and am doing things to see if they work for now) for the record I copied over-right or just used one from weapons balance overhaul that pre-existed ANYWAYS... point is I took the modification, created a new over-ride, added automatic where bolt-action is, where bolt-action was, put "set" "automatic (fire?)" "15" oh WOW does it have a kick, huge recoil and everything, BUT, it's automatic, AND it has a delay if I stop firing that I can't get around (atm I literally just spazzposted this just found out about this) HOWEVER.... if I let go of the fire, there's a forced delay that's about the same time it takes for the bolt action animation to take place, but it doesn't show the animation! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO FORM ID FOR THE MOD RECEIVER 0021048c is referenced by --> this mod form ID 00210483 (this is the one I copy as over-ride thingy'd)

synths are simultaneously based on I, robot and the music video for "technologic" or rather the robot in it, early robotics used that sort of setup when trying to get them to show emotion even FO tactics which is arguably the most terminator based in one sense, up-ends the relation in so many other ways, also of note is the recent "tay tweets" incident where a certain type of internet denizen managed to essentially teach an AI learning construct experiment/PR stunt by microsoft various, really, really, funny(politically incorrect) things - but then we run into the part where microsoft wiped it while we're not quite at the level where self awareness is available, it's getting closer to that point where we have to actually question what it means to be human the big thing on the synths is that there's uncertainty, whereas with the normal robots they're completely aware they're robots, and this makes people feel safer, while at the same time they're actually more dangerous than synths because where they act human, the robots are fully aware of their situation and yet *still* insist on being homicidal maniacs from what I can tell, thanks protectron! you COULD say that the BoS views it as terminator, whereas the railroad views it as I, robot and the institute just is like... "we're modders" Buy it, use it, break it, fix it, Trash it, change it, mail - upgrade it, Charge it, point it, zoom it, press it, Snap it, work it, quick - erase it, Write it, cut it, paste it, save it, Load it, check it, quick - rewrite it, Plug it, play it, burn it, rip it, Drag and drop it, zip - unzip it, Lock it, fill it, call it, find it, View it, code it, jam - unlock it, Surf it, scroll it, pause it, click it, Cross it, crack it, switch - update it, Name it, rate it, tune it, print it, Scan it, send it, fax - rename it, Touch it, bring it, pay it, watch it, Turn it, leave it, start - format it.

I finally got this to work after getting it to work then finding out that the update did something and I have no idea what and I spent my time making the mod go to a later mod involving institute and replacing all instances of "institute laser" of any kind with this http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/7818/? plasma defender looks nice, so does the fusion rifle the apollo looks like F1 laspistol and potentially cool, the van buren las looks... well I'm sure you'll be able to make it look half decent at any rate, I'm a bland aesthetist myself (although I've been won over before) if anyone can do it looks like you can :p if it shoots lightning ensconced laserbolts it'd work wonderfully

I first made an account here, before I could get fallout 4, to comment on how much I basically hated the idea of paid mods, as a canadian I hate the price differential in dollars as well, I waited until the game went on sale instead of dropping 70 or was it 80 otherwise? my premise was that a monetized community quickly degrades in actual value and worth given this, I feel it's okay that they're not rushing the creation kit out and that DLC also exists, given the power of modding, this is a real and serious potential destabilizer to the usual method of DLC releases/expansion packs, given that they've already built up a large fanbase of modders, and that previous DLC from previous games lends themselves towards creation of content after realizing how much is here I'm fine with dropping cash on DLC for even relatively "minor" things, albeit I do notice elements of bare bones'ing the design, via the damage types system (for disclosure I've got automatron and will get wasteland workshop but I'm not using either until I've done the vanilla game and then tested my ideas of balance/etc and then I'll use them) I realized after I started obsessing over ideas on how to mod the game for both balance in the damage/defense style as well as logistics of loot, which types of ammo are used by which weapons, and seeing the sheer volume of various gameplay editing mods, especially large comprehensive ones like arbitration ,new dawn, LZ institute, to name just a few, I decided that it was okay - this time around at any rate, I've had a blast and sunk like 250 hours into the game already, although a lot was restarting(basically doing my own testing of gamebalance over and over again early game due to my obsession) and I've not got past halfway yet to this end, I don't mind the CK being delayed, there does need to be some give and take, in this case, what I suggest is a "continue good work, continue loyalty" give and take, I'd like to see extra attention put towards creating quest hubs similar to fallout 1-2 of special interesting things that you can do and move on from that are a "singular area" as well as inter-regional quest compatibility by bethesda, their strength is the storylines content mostly, although they do have god flavour items too, the physics enginges get lulzy and potentially continued support to get ideas smoothened out and put into baseline game itself, "bethesda listens" and I "fanboy" and this works, blizzard stomped on a classical private server recently, the obvious implication is they're desperate for people to move back into the formal servers, the games industry is definitely feeling the heat in a way, and so on, skyblivion and morrowblivion, skywind haven't been treated like this, bethesda appears to play nice, so to that extent I'd like to support them as long as they do this, precisely to comparitively punish bad faith games companies, and reward good faith ones - I still maintain that monetized communities are bad faith one... POTENTIAL way out, is for modders to essentially form content packs, bethesda scrubs them up cleans them, puts them in keeps them from bugging out (testing/actual work etc) and then a conglomerated content package of various mods with funds being split gets done - basically sourcing out work in group contracts maybe they do polls asking for what people want to see and well known modders who are good at what they do offer to do it - etc etc the community votes on who does it, the worst form of paid content is microtransactions, look at any free to play game, that under any circumstances is like, "nope" - what this does is keep things at about a DLC/expansion pack level and size of organization, generally speaking its' much better and for consoles don't they ignore mods mostly anyways? but DLC is different, DLC is convenient, console players love convenience, this is literally how you market to them properly, you conglomerate and conveniencize sales if someone wants to mod a single item into the game for free, well, fine, this also then means you can't just prevent others from modding in single weapons, but at the same time you're providing something that's content quality tested, is definitely vouched for by the existing community, you get value - and the easier way of getting money to some of the more serious content creators - while bethesda still has to work to earn it :wink: and keeps the flow going to boot - remember the orange box? you know how steam's monetized older games that were free mods? the best of the best are monetized though, the sheer volume of people interested in the stuff means that even lower prices lead to larger sales and more money - note that this isn't a retro-active thing, this is a "going forwards" thing, retroactive is generally speaking a "nope" as well, although admittedly with enough stuff already out it's POSSIBLE some of it could be retro'd, ehhhh it gets ugly either way on that topic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronage AND KEEP IT INTERNAL TO BETHESDA DON'T LET ANYONE ELSE HANDLE THE THING (except maybe steam, same way it deals with other DLC since basically that's what you're doing)

he's already made a quest mod using a beta of the creation kit it involves subways and crashing a train into a giant mirelurk queen for one http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12101/?

seconded in a heartbeat the idea of running around in a leo suit with a dobergun(rocket launcher) is giving me butterflies

if at all possible, I'd like to see megamasterlist compilations, where all the files from a particular modder that's prevalent are loaded up all together, and then if for some reason a variation exists on a particular weapon, an over-ride file can be found for that exact weapon, for instance if a weapon mod maker has 7 guns, then you get the big list of all 7, but then you get the override mod for the 1 you want, thus instead of 7 files you have 2 damage thresh-hold by talkietoaster (power armour image) adds DT framework(makes DT capability in the game itself at all), DT patcher uses that framework to add DT to various pieces for actual gameplay, toughness enhanced changes the perk similarly and now I'm actually going to use that perk mod instead of the +40 DR one, but manually edit it to only give .5 DT and 15 DR because reasons - and give adamantium skeleton .5DT each level as well, will let you know how it works out I guess :tongue: I had to go down a few mods because there's a 256 mod limit with nexus mod manager before it gets so incredibly sketchy and I was finding crashes and things disappearing so to add to the wishlist, aggregating mods into more singular files if that's possible (I don't know enough to know for sure if this would lower the load on computers for putting weapons into the game) because having like 50 weapons mods with 50 files increases the load problems I suspect makes removing broken things easier too though so its a tradeoff the reason I want to finish the game is because I want to get through and get a feel for balance (as opposed to thinking great thoughts on the matter because that's usually useless) - and then I can experience the story and all that and experiment and restart with wild abandon because I'm gonna get crazy - and start playing with integers I don't understand just to see what happens because I need to learn this way but I realized there could be issues with aggregations like giving people credit, donations and so on there's also no community resource for ammo either, the entire way I deal with balancing in my head is dependent on whether LOADS or ammo tweaks is being used I also was also thinking of an "explosive power" perk replacing demolitions (the name pertains to both thrown power and kaboom) which allows throwing weapons to be thrown like grenades (put similar physics as frag grenades on all the items from that throwing weapons mod) and for pool cues with knives on them to be freely switched between "thrown" and "melee weapon" as well as making pool cues potentially held like hunting rifles, with the normal attack animation being a stab effect (similar to bayonet gunbash) - needs a leather or two, pool cue, switchblade

Rationalization - skip if boring let me start with the fact that I'm running about 260 mods at once in my load order list, I'm grabbing everything almost with a few (temporary I hope) exceptions like the anti-tank rifle (I just don't know how to incorporate them as I haven't finished the game even yet and I wish to do this before getting truly serious in this) - I'm aware of realistic location damages, armour DT and so on, I've been through almost every mod file in search of the ultimate modding setup for a fallout 1-2 feel (even getting classic power armour balancing in tandem with unbreakable PA and reduction of fusion core usage etc after trying out a few health pool enlargement options) sometimes the enemies feel like they're all made of playdough, putty, plasticine, they don't have huge differences, I want to fix this through perks, weapon/ammo changes, health and Damage Resist/Damage Threshold changes, I have to admit I'm pretty overwhelmed by all the new weapons mods and it's pretty inspiring the main thing I notice is that there's not necessarily a comprehensive balance to it all and I feel like this makes it unnatural feeling when adding a weapon in and it just OP destroys everything, and a little disappointment, when it's a 1-2 damage boost with different skin and ammo usage (M9 vs pipe pistol, I want them to both be in game and both relevant in their own way) this list is by no means exhaustive and merely a starting point - I still need to finish the game to get a proper view of the full balance but I've been tweaking things to work and feel balanced as I go along so it's been slow ------------------ synths should have higher DT but lower limb health and damage resist so that they fall apart to physical force easily enough from big shots (tough but brittle) whereas ghouls should have a spongy sort of low limb health situation higher damage resist but lower damage thresh-hold (zombies and skeletons) I have pretty much all the new weapons in mind, including LAEP, crecy, celtic, survival knife, and the guns as well from weapons overhaul, USP, M-14, the real guns etc etc etc in mind in mind with this, also damage thresh-hold, and adapting different weapons and armours to actually incorporate different damage resistance types, and making enemies more... particular in their weaknesses/strengths the idea isn't for "realism" or one headshot kills, but a sort of situation where armoured targets are much stronger, but even automatics can do a little damage against them unless they're absolutely the worst of the worst unlike the completely unforigivng damage thresh-hold calculations of the original fallout series' AND I WANT TO DO THIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OCKDEdtWys -------------------------- I feel like tweaking values so that damage thresh-hold matters more, upping the health, and upping the damage, higher values allow for more nuance, at 30 damage, 1-6 DT per piece of armor matters, but isn't gamebreakingly annoying like it is with an 18 damage pipe pistol shot, automatics should receive about the damage reduction they receive now when the baselines are at an upped value (30-6 instead of 18-6) and perks should increase damage by say 5% per point with 1-2% armour penetration for rifle, etc etc etc fist and melee weapons should give some damage resistance on their own, while not realistic per se, it enables a melee character to be a bit more meaningful in its own right, melee weapons can then have a balance of attack speed, damage per hit, and DR, so that you don't just make better weapons by increasing damage into unstoppable one hit kills necessarily ------------------------- Pipeguns, Pipe Revolvers, Pipe Bolt-actions all use .38 - all pipe guns are worse than a similar proper gun counterpart, keeps pipe guns around as a stand-by you can always rely on to an extent,by making .38 the currency of the realm you also don't unfairly disadvantage automatic pipeguns because you'll be carrying the bullets around anyways probably (we all know how bolt action becomes preferable when low on ammo) - by keeping bottle caps as a form of low weight/no weight semi "credit card" you allow usage of said cheap currency without overly penalizing yourself as well, but it does harm your attempts to get just plain better guns - it's a tradeoff all ammunition gains weight .38 is at 0.05?standard bullet weight is 0.08heavy bullets are 0.1rockets are 0.8greandes are 0.6------------------put bottlecaps as misc, allow for drops off various sensible NPC mobs, .38 becomes standard currency in a sense, keeps the ability to shoot but all guns that use .38 are somewhat weaker, but always okay for a standby armour penetration more ubiquitous, but low amounts, AP notes for ammo are starting point for considerationammo types (other games standin for fallout 1-2-tactics)[light].38 (low armour penetration) 10% AP 70% dam 2-5 seconds of poison at 1-3 DPS (no idea what actual amount for balance)5mm (standin for 5.56mm in other games) 30% AP 60% Dam - design pretty much to almost exclusively be used in automatics to offset low damage, high AP offsets unfair DT amounts.45 (has no armour penetration) 100% dam (standard) 2mm ECM (40% AP) 150% dam (rare, light, the holy grail of ammo) [normal].44 (20% AP) 110% Dam5.56mm (standin for 7.62 in other games) 20% AP 100% Dam.308 (standin for .223 FMJ in other games) 30% AP 120% Dam 10mm (20% AP) 90% Dam [heavy]shells 0% AP.50 cal (40% AP) 130% Dam and potential for 1-2-3 bleed damage for 1-2-3 seconds (1 for 3 seconds or 3 for 3 seconds or anything in between)fusion core N/A AP PKVVD uses .44 40% AP lower damage than "that gun" - balance to be slightly less damage compared to "that gun" against robots but little else, faster firing though by a bitmagnum uses .45 20% AP similar damage to PKVVD - slower firing equivalent to "that gun""that gun" uses .44pipe weapons use .38hunting rifle uses .308thommygun uses .45assault rifle uses 5.56mmcombat rifle uses .308-------- laser goes from all energy to half-energy half-fire, incendiary lights on fire to boot and reduces direct damage only a little plasma does a little bit of EMP OR radiation damage on top of doing half-physical half-energy LAEP is also conceptually included, does more energy with a bit of EMP on top railgun gets a new magnesium shotgun effect round, very low spread, 40->10% AP, adds say, 5 fire damage per pellet, 5-6 pellets ---------------- I'm thinking generic legendaries should be removed at some point while actual legendaries from named entities with their special effects become more prevalent (the Wow! factor of a thing) while certain, particularly light (critical hits do 1.3X damage and crit rate increases 5-10% faster) could be available as well as an option ------------------- LOADS and Tweaks ammo mods dirty, normal/medium, and clean ammo (names not entirely accurate but it's what I got for now) dirty means incendiary, poison, bleed augmented ammo, good for slower firing weapons like pipe guns to make up the difference (smart peasants use these) normal means a slight boost to damage but less AP, or more AP and slightly less damage, but nothing drastic (ye average landed gentry) clean means depleted uranium rounds, things high tech, high level, high shot output weapons could spam, like a .50 cal machinegun (only the best for a king) details on components, what types of ammo drop off who and how many are beyond me as of yet, this is just a framework conception still

thank you, I'll try that SUCCESS! thank you, I managed to make a raider armour baseline be 30DT 15 ER (just for obvious testing purposes) AND I managed to figure out what values are what for DR and ER on the tempered modification for raider armor, and get it in the load order so that valdicil works properly to show it although the basic armor value itself gets over-ridden by a later mod that affects it but not modifications ( compatibility to get it to load after and still retain its sorting icons from valdicil etc is beyond me still but baby steps once this is solved... yay) I'll make this and then try a DT thresh-hold alteration to them as well for independent usage there was a different video showing the same process (something about bathrobe to testrobe) I thought I was doing step by step that, but I did new record instead of override, I managed to hard reset the situation by deleting mods into recycling bin, uninstalling any plugins, uninstalling NMM and all associated files etc etc, then reinstalling it and just using the mods I knew were safe already (cause I know they're standalone to the process) - oldschool nuke and repopulate stuff using some care had a glitch at one point where trying to modify receivers made for a crash, loaded up a different game (I've restarted a few times but had a while where I was playing vanilla game) and used standard open(no mods) and NMM open and TLDR things work again so I'll try doing it right this time and get back to ya on it oh, also, an oddity, I successfully just FO4Edit did override and it shows in the list (plays nicely) with other mods it looks like, EXCEPT.... fallout4.esm and armorkeywords.esm show this modcol_armor_Synth_Torso_Size_B_Materials [OMOD:00046DAD] RaiderOverhaul.esp and DT00Core.esp (realistic armor DT and headshot damage) show this I remember previously I was doing a mod and some valdicil stuff was popping up showing modded armors as synth armors, with the name "robot armor" modcol_armor_RaiderMod_Torso_Size_B_Materials [OMOD:0018B198] but I've changed it and it shows properly as raider armour so I'm happy now regardless this isn't so much of an issue I think, because I uninstalled some stuff back then, but it's... a funny thing (that I don't understand but I'm not trying to do everything atm just some simple stat edits for armour and DT)

I'm using NMM and FO4Edit I used a trick?tutorial? I found on youtube I right clicked in FO4Edit and selected "copy as new record into" and then made a new file <new file> and renamed it "armor rebalance mod" and it's an esp file all I tried to do was change damage resist and energy resist values for super mutant skin, feralghoulglowing skin, feralghoulreaverarmor 1-3 and metal, leather, raider, combat armour, synth armour and both helmets, supermutant armour, and a few other small pieces (it's a small test attempt at changing some values so that the game's armors feel more varied and will be useable later game for different purposes better I've only changed DR and ER) I copied each of the armor files into the mod file I made via said trick from youtube, got a warning about changing the name or something, but I just used the already-existing name, could this be the problem? I checked the other mods that alter those kinds of things and it didn't seem like it now, NMM I've managed to get to recognize the plugin exists in the plugins tab of NMM, but it's not in the mods section at all, and I cannot install it or get it installed either via the "add mod from file" furthermore, FO4Edit does not bring up the file when I "attempt to alter" values for armor in the fallout main ESM or addons (not actually changing anything just getting past the warning where the editor shows the mods that reference the file, like a new dawn, DT, fallout.esm etc) - my esp thing is completely considered as separate I have no idea what I'm doing really, which is why I tried to keep it simple for now somehow I still managed to make a plugin mod that gets ignored upon loading the game also, the game crashes when I try to mod a receiver but I think that's because I started changing profiles and some of the things I took off were weapons mods and so on and at some point I managed to make the game crash when it should load the opening video piece umm... uhh... I didn't change anything except remove some stuff from the load order with the mod manager

other things, such as magnesium 2mm ECM that MIRV's into flaming projectiles (I don't know how MIRV works, is it possible to implement a sort of situation where after a certain point the shot fragments but instead of scattering like an umbrella the pieces keep most of their momentum and turn into projectiles like a grenade might but damage like bullets do) the idea is that as a special ammo, it can shoot more or less like a regular 2mm ECM with less damage but an incendiary but at a certain point it fragments into flaming peices that do some incendiary damage too (it becomes more of a fire hazard and loses it's armour piercing capabilities aside from fire) damage type resistances being implemented is another thing I'd be interested in doing, the prefix system is nice and neat and cool and all but is under-used, I would aim to change that, as I mentioned above, perks matter for all of this stuff as well one of the perks I was thinking of was a thing that adds a 5/10/15/20/25% damage of main shot thing for energy weapons as a different kind of damage - at rank 10 int perk but reduces the experience gain you get by like 1.5% per thing - VANS becomes an option baseline pick whether you want it or not, and nerd rage moves to rank 1 - could use the graphic for VANS for the new perk and call it something like Party V.A.N.S. (very arbitrary negative stuff) because the beams/bolts (I have a mod that changes them into laser bolts) could also have a tinge of hue based on the type of damage that accompanies it (including just more laser, but never physical) poison should be more useful, introducing an antidote system would be great, essentially the poison system would operate as the opposite of the damage/heal system, poison would degenerate health, and the antidote would instantly remove some of the max potential for that degeneration - the opposite of where a bullet wounds you, then you take a stimpack and it regenerates health slowly over time better access to things like hub flowers etc, with more complex creation of materials - as much as I love blood pack creation with the cannibal overhaul, it doesn't entirely work with less loot and ammo (in regards to humans I think, although I'm not entirely sure it does work with animals though), a patch on less loot and ammo's side would fix this right up but I've been playing with a few mods that have more taxing/rewarding creation methods, like cleaner water (gives espresso or whatever and uses clean coffee cups I've never been able to find but I did make a dirty nicotonic once!) ammo tweaks enables some really interesting methods of creating ammo, cheerful butcher enables me to use animals for parts in an intuitive way (finally, some glue!) then there's a mod or two I think that let me craft acids and something else that's a useful component ALL of this is inspired by having tons of mods, but I just felt that there's potential for a baseline here that works even better with them all one of the reasons I'm posting this here is because I'm looking to make a "go-to" sort of mod set that "the big one" and is slightly more than a clever collection of disparate mods, a sort of melding of them but I don't want to steal resources or take credit or whatever and I don't know how modding etiquette or whatever works around here, or what counts as someone else's work etc (because I could edit the static values and suddenly I've modded a mod, I'm aware the framework stuff is definitely theirs but what do I consider the balancing decisions now? see?) and some of this stuff kind of crosses the line and then back again, so yeah - just throwing this out there to see if people like it, to see what people think about it in terms of crediting people, and so I have something I can refer to when I forget this long complex thing of what my dream is for an ultimate gameplay experience thingy note: the main focus for this thread's variation of my idea isn't realism, it's interesting nuanced difficulty and experiences - I also use CSE (commonwealth spawns extended) and more spawns, of which I've loaded the medium and the lite together, on top of CSE, and that mod that makes AI shoot more (arbitration) and harder stealth via longer detection times and distances, and darker nights, etc, etc, etc, extended floodlights, pipboy flashlight, better indoors? (60% darker etc) and that one that has mobs detect you from higher ranges and god help you if you shoot something you will be the center of another world war, the mod so I'm not averse to certain elements of that frightening realistic-ish experience, esp with ghouls and stuff, if they do pure radiation damage I'm happy (a new dawn or is it DECAY?) but stuff like "headshots only" kills on them isn't my thing, BUT the idea for my stuff is those sorts of changes are obviously mutators, separate small things that are easily changed and can be changed back, and that's that I'm also not averse to modifying how much damage a thing does based on where it hits, like "better locational damage" but the idea I've got is that somehow this becomes a baseline that others operate from, because it's so easy to make variables on, but it provides the underlying structure required to easily make changes, a mod for modding sort of, but not in load orders, but rather in gameplay) because the way things are now, if I want that sort of change, because of how mods relate to each other and do or don't work with each other, it's like stringing and unstringing 5 active grenades and tripwire mines oh also, there's a tendency for mods to make radiation immaterial as a threat I like the idea that there'd be some lower armour and energy resist, much much higher anti-radiation stuff for combat and stuff, so that maybe the hazmat suit could be pure anti-radiation, but unless you're *reallllly* cranking up the heat on radiation it doesn't make much of a difference with that modded gear, and I've found it's a bit *too* threatening, there's no room for nuance if you do, making drugs like rad-x and rad-away rarer becomes useless because you're playing gearswap all the time instead of relying on consumables so much again, like "realism" I don't want to make this based around it, but I do want it so that with a few simple mutators it can achieve it

note: if it seems like I'm complaining about a mod, possibly, but I have the utmost respect for anything I've mentioned, if I'm complaining, it's more about the situation of modding itself having such a kludge factor in getting mods to work together (FO4CK might solve this, but even so it'll take some edits to various parts to get things to where I'd want it and some of this isn't even functionally existent from what I've seen so far in any mods and I'd like to see about changing that) btw there's a real life precedent for even damage thresh-holds failing sometimes called spall or spalling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjIy-500j00 --------------------- looking to know two things before I can really try implementing this stuff, note that the best I can do skillwise atm is edit static values in FO4edit, but I'm willing to do them for rebalancing, but I need a few answers first 1- does DT work based on total character DT or locational DT (head hands torso etc) 2 - does DR work based on total character DR or locational DR (head, hands, torso etc) 3- does DT affect energy or other types of damage or just physical (or just physical and energy but not the others) Damage thresh-hold is a useful system, and it's really neat, unfortunately I noticed it doesn't work with vanilla or mods if I want to reduce my own damage and rely on "realistic damgae thresh-holds and headshot damage" - note that some of these changes are beyond me atm, but some of these aren't and I'll be tweaking them a bit in the future - note also that a lot of this involves other people's mods, I have no idea if it's bad form to tweak like that, but my interest here is to tweak things so that with a certain set of mods, you get a certain sort of feel) I also want it to be able to scale to level, a lot of things need to scale better to level, the mod a new dawn attempts to do this a bit, and I like it, so I was thinking of damage thresh-hold and thinking maybe it could too but this is contingent on knowing more about how it actually operates, because if not then I could do a ghetto version of what I'm aiming for but it just wouldn't be quite as cool and scaling -------------------------------------------- now, the germs of this idea had been banging around my head for a bit already, but what made ti really set off was that I learned how to use FO4Edit in a moment of insomniac lucid desperation (went productively crazy - as I'm usually quite sanely lazy) when I got over my natural ADHD and learned how to use it even after poking at it annoyed me the first time, I guess when everything's a struggle, a struggle like that isn't much and it turns out that when your mind is close to dreamland but still awake it can ingest new info easily (not talking groggy here either) anyways I tend to think of ways to alter stuff a fair bit, so this isn't new, I've DL'd like 220 mods in the last 18 days I've had FO4, and logged 170 hours so, damage thresh-holds and DR - while this seems dry, I feel there's a lot of room for tweaking stuff so that some of that unique F1 flavour really really really comes out from this) I think leather should have an okay DT, in the original fallout, DT and dodging were both stat based (and both only dictated whether the attack was calculated at all, a 13 hit would count as 13 damage if the DT was 12, or no hit at all if the damage was 12), in this fallout it's a lot harder to have a naturally dodging character, and at higher difficulties with automatic weapon carrying enemies it really doesn't matter, whereas in F1 recognizing when an enemy had an automatic and using a higher DT/phys resist armour was important, in this game there's a different way to things, the combat system is a lot more FPS'ish, I'm not complaining ------------------------------------------- 1)Baseline, and then addons A) raider armour should have the highest DT relative to its DR, and it should have some okay DR and ER, in fact it should have unreasonably high DT for its DR, so that it outdoes metal armour's DT but there should be a system in place where DT can just be bypassed sort of like a lucky hit - like a mini-crit, this would allow smaller bullets the chance to do damage a bit against things with huge DT, and smoothen the system while keeping that "oh god why won't these bullets hurt this metal monster" feeling, and raider armour should have the highest chance of this happening as well, if you look at their armour it's very heavy metallically, but it's also got a lot of holes in it, a bullet's bound to find its way through metal armour should be better DR a bit, and have some okay DT, but it should have a DT failure rate half that of raider's armour basically, the idea is that while it's less overtly potent for blocking with DT, it's better made and more resilient, it can handle the big stuff better, like explosives or single shot big guns (raider armour is a low level anti-physical predominantly item that also emphasizes reducing lots of little hits the most but is also a bit hit and miss with it giving off a raider feel to using it in combat) - this would work with raider overhaul's dreadnaught armour making it a viable endgame solution to raider armour *sucking* the way shadowing works for leather for sneaking (leather is like the lightest so it's got a natural advantage to help sneaking which is always helpful even at high levels) combat armour should be a mix of course, but it should have only a lower DT and DR than metal armour, while having better ER and slightly lower DT failure rate (it's more reliable) B) this would enable combat armour to be the go-to, while raider and metal would retain a sort of niche value usefulness as a thing to use when you wanna go toe to toe with hardcore physically powerful enemies opposed to its underwhelming, leather as the lightest armour altogether, has a natural advantage in providing or not inhibiting sneak bonuses (goes well with anti-sneak mods gives it flavour) and raider armour is the thing you use if you're just power tripping leather armour is also good against energy, so that's a thing I guess, by keeping it below combat but above everything else for resist, then it can be for sneaking and good against "techy weapons" which is important because I also was thinking of making lasers a sort of "semi-fast firing but harder hitting than usual" kind of weapon this is because I find the gattling gun and gattling laser to be already attempting that, but with only DR it just kind of looks like a visual thing and so on, DT allows for an overhaul that re-imagines their place in the world and enables automatic lasers to do more damage (think of these as relative to other automatics the way the combat rifle's semi-auto is - noticeably slower and more solid on the hit) C) this makes lasers good against DT somewhat, which means it's great against raider armour, decent against metal armour, okay against leather, and not so great against combat this frees up the minigun to be a shredder, and with the occasional DT failure chance, it can do what it's supposed to, look cool like it should, and not have insanely high damage for such a fast firing weapon (this is the contemptible issue revolving around DT that has got me doing this now) that would almost, cheatingly be good against low DT things while being terrible against higher DT things (someone mentioned a static reduction of 40 armour as opposed to 40%, but I think it's fine as is in vanilla if this system can be put into place and this also allows for easier scaling) 2) scaling, DT included A) the best way for DT to scale I feel is to change the perk system slightly to incorporate 1-5 DT from adamantium frame perhaps, and .4% hp gain every 10 seconds or so for lifegiver, then to change the system (if possible) so that armours based on type give a level based increase to DT and damage increase to enemies based on level (like 0.1 per level for one armour, 0.085 for another etc) and the attachments could then be done so that some give more DT per level, or some give more DR per level, this would be how you get metal armour to be the special anti-physical piece and the dreadnaught gear (from raider's overhaul) to be like a ghetto walking fortress (with high DT, high failure rate, etc) and make addons to armours matter, not just the base armour, so that if I want a type of armour that's naturally higher in DT, fine, all the pieces will have it, but some will have more, or less and it's a real tradeoff) now since lasers would trend towards "slightly slower slightly heavier punch automatics" - the beam spreader shotgun effect would have an equalizing effect if DT affects energy, it spreads its damage into more shots, if ER affects it it keeps the damage up against incredibly resistant enemies, but lowers it against less resistant enemies because of how resistance works (if I recall correctly) - but because it's a spread it enables that "at least I'll hit something" chance of things, so that it can be useful against both fast enemies that are annoying, and heavy enemies that are resistant (especially considering the DT failure rate again - more hits = more predictable damage) - the idea behind lasers is sort of like the idea behind auto-cannons, they hit hard they're automatic but they're noticeably slower than others and if DT doesn't affect them then the way ER works will keep it relevant given that physical damage would be so easy to negate making DT/DR focused stuff way more tempting) B) fusion cells should be less available than before, there's way too many period, unless one starts getting into making the gattling laser use it and be available more readily slightly .50 cal bullets, are monsters, I feel that these should add to the gattling gun the effect of almost being a cheat weapon, but by extension they should be difficult to get, when you use them, they should add like 20% armour penetration innately, add that to the 40% minigun penetration and the enemy's left with 40% of the armour they once had but you also are chewing through money to get the effect, they should also do pretty good damage, alternatively sniper rifles and other one shot heavy damage type stuff should implement them kind of as-is this allows people to get their thing on without feeling like the *entire* game is too easy, 5mm is nice but it's a bit, common and with "ammo tweaks" suvival mode gets less survival based and more farming/grinding based unless I start making it so everyone one-shot kills each other or something even with less "loot and ammo" mod - and frankly I'd like to see the game a bit more arcadey with its hardcore survival aspects, but better refined so as to make it a challenge not just through starvation of resources or "did I get the drop on them or did they get it on me" but also through the intelligent application of available tools to the task at hand, as the situation is going C) with the above in mind, the relative resistance of things as you progress in levels should start to diverge a bit, at the beginning everything should be in fact, a little bit on the "samey" side of things compared to later where the various things take on different stats like higher health gains, more physical armour, etc etc the idea here is simple, as you gain more experience playing the game, you become better able to deal with the different variations, this dynamic not only rewards you by giving it, but it does it smoothly, level by level, guiding you to the assertion through an evolution of your enemies - I want super mutants to be beasts I can shotgun their face with and they'll not be feeling too good, but if I try to shotgun their armour it won't do very well, but if I go with generic automatics with armour penetration, they'll still be resistant, while energy weapons will be difficult to use well on these guys 3) relations A) not interpersonal, but rather ammo and gun based, if there's 3 tiers of enemies, 3 tiers of armour, and 3 tiers of bullets essentially, then what I want to see is this, when a tier matches to another tier defense and offensive wise, the goal is to have that situation feel difficult, but kind of normalish and it'd be wise although not totally necessary to switch ammo based on situation, when a tier is lower than the other, it should feel like a real struggle, if it's TWO tiers below, just... naw bro you're plinking at them, but okay if you're patient you can do it, and if it's higher it should feel like a cakewalk and if it's TWO tiers higher then it should feel like you're just wasting your time to an extent (.50 cal gattling gun vs molerats should feel ridiculous and stupid while 5mm against molerats should feel like a power trip) - plinking is still viable but prepare to spend ammo, another goal here is to have lower power bullets take on a "just throw more at the enemy and hope they die" effect to it, equal footing should feel like you want to make sure you're using the proper type of ammo (armour pierce, hollow point) to get maximum effect, and higher tiers relative to target should just be "eh I'll just shoot and kill it" light, sturdy, heavy seem to be the basic 3 methods of dictating how good an armour is, it's a good way to keep that type of resource in the game, was thinking maybe the lighter versions could be slightly better for certain kinds of tasks as well, and heavier ones for other kinds of tasks, so that when levelling there's a native DR and DT to the heavier armours so you might not care or notice, but then later in the game you start thinking to yourself "I want those bonuses from that kind of armour" and suddenly that light synth armour becomes more appealing than the heavy synth armour, or combat armour B) perks can be reworked to provide better bonuses so that underwhelming ones are more interesting, I was thinking about things like, having picking a talent in one abillity reduce your SPECIAL of a different place by a certain amount, but allowing your character to pick it up to 10, making picking SPECIAL stats important even after you've gotten them up a bit, to keep levelling and planning ahead a little more important for longer than it takes to get the bare minimum to get the abilities you want, now there's tradeoffs (awareness could just give 1 perception instead of taking anything away because it's a bit underwhelming as is and VANS could give 1 perception as well) since int is so good and perception is underwhelming might as well make it easier to get in light of this) relevant things to the task +DAMAGE THRESH-HOLD +LEVEL BONUSES - health, damage resist, energy resist, well just any resist really +HEALTH +DAMAGE DONE +BULLETS AVAILABLE (ammo tweaks style, I'm talking about distribution of chance they'll be using better quality variations of the same calibre required to fire their weapon (aka high quality .38's) if he implements low mid and higher quality bullets as well or someone else does, then it'll be interesting to see what happens) some of these, in fact a lot of this requires mods to even seem to be feasible and functional, like mods that act as framework also, I was thinking what if ghouls could throw stuff, they're feral, they're vicious, I've been in a fight or two in real life though where someone's been snarling viciously as they throw something and then engage in a fistfight, that's pretty feral, so why not make ghouls slightly more variable?

I've netted about 170 hours in 18 days I had my first "omg I can do something to make this different" bonanza and was up for 30 hours yesterday and today I was also up for an almost similar time, granted mostly I wasn't up that long each time because of it, but that's what I filled most of my time with omg and I'll probably fill more time up with it too, because now that I learned what FO4Edit is... just, omg. I have ideas. like, damage thresh-holds, but there's a chance for them to fail so that metal armour might have higher DR, but a lower DT, but it's better because the chance it has to not apply DT to a bullet is like half of raider's really brings out the feel of raider armour that way, and also game balance wise allows plinker bullets to sometimes get a scratch in, like a pseudo crit I'll stop there, I have other ideas, but this isn't the place fallout 4 is the first modern game I've *wanted* to get just because I want it and not just because it's what my computer can handle, in llike 10 years or more just. ahh - I AM GOING TO BE WORKING ON IDEAS FOR A BALANCED, ACTUALLY SCALING, SYSTEM, THAT GIVES THE FEEL, OF FALLOUT COMBAT ITEMS, but the combat itself is so different that I won't bother trying for that sort of accuracy (note I'm talking 1-2-tactics) and it's probably for the best because I like the "verticality" and so on, the smoothness once a proper scaling system for combat is in and reliable enough, then people can make quests that are like, good for any level! (I saw someone say something about how fallout is bad for quests and good for mechanics, including NV/3) so if I can do something to alleviate that and sate my thirst for amazing underlying game mechanics.... yasssssss

that seems like a pretty good basis, how might one deal with mod conflicts however? would that be a quality assurance thing that the team would deal with? how would you feel about independent mods with a "bulk bonus" for getting packs, should they be organized by the curators or the people making the mods? do you feel that this is something that should be built from the ground up and as the game is constructed? I'm thinking existing games don't have a framework to properly get into that level of interconnection between it it seems like there was mods - expansions, then mods - DLC - expansions, and how would you feel about a specific name (3rd party DLC) or adjective added to DLC to describe the thing since I'm fairly certain the language used affects how people react (not just in a propagandistic way but actually lining up the language to match existing views on what's what) since I'm pretty certain "paid mods" was the worst way to say it so that someone sees mods - (3rd party) DLC - expansions instead of (paid) mods - DLC - expansions on a side-ish note, what's your experience as an artist previous to the endeavour, you say you were thinking of quitting, it reminds me of myself burning out when playing a certain role/class in MMO's too much, but could you elaborate on that issue? it might help define some of the issues a bit better I'm wondering about a shareware model re-emerging via 3rd party DLC modding, where individuals who mod for a living (and thus have the constructive power they just don't have otherwise due to time constraints) take some of their work and showcase it as a free mod, or just a different thing altogether as a form of advertising themselves/self directed artistic whim realizations - this would keep ties between the modding community when some people move on up, and also at some point allow people to jump back and forth between projects based on money and projects for pure interest/whims

why do mods exist at all? how did modding come into effect? what sorts of societal elements are attributed to it is it related to hacking originally? could it be that it kept an association with independent modification of things? if someone wants to say paid mods why not simply say independent developer, since they modify things as well but are not associated with "modding" as a hobby I've noticed that there's a narrative of "the opportunity for profit" I know that I'm looking into making gaming stuff and getting money for it, but my primary interest is that I can get money to survive and not die, while doing what I'm interested in doing anyways, is this what people are looking for? modding has always had an attribution to it that it's unofficial and free from what I've seen - as a game scenario particular form of hacking, so "paid mods" doesn't sound any good to me at all, it's part of the identity, it's the wrong wording to use, 3rd party developments might be a better way of putting it, because paid modding moves into the domain and sphere of the hobbyist modding and doesn't allow for a clear delineation of expectations for people to judge by how many people who make mods feel it's distasteful to *want* money for mods? as in to actively make mods in an attempt to get money (getting "rich")? how worried do you think others might be about this? for skyrim I heard of a a total conversion? that's technically a mod but to me that was classifiable as something of an expansion level thing instead of a DLC thing, so that the level of work and quality would validate asking for money I'd argue modding is an artistic endeavour and that the same issues facing drawn art face modding, how much money would modders get through donations if the other 92% of the using community for the base-game knew about mods more? would the types of people that don't actively go out and get mods as an extension of the game be more free with their wallets? I'm willing to bet yes, but if you're thinking the community was out to give you money you're in the wrong business if it's modding, this is why I suggest putting yourself into two camps, modding, and 3rd party developer - and you can belong in both but keep what you make listed clearly and if it's free it's a mod if it's not it's a 3rd party development as a use-title (or some other thing) but paid mods sounds odd I also feel that shining the spotlight on mods is a good thing to do, 3rd party developer/or other title attracts people with a level of prestige to the name as well, so that if you DO put it up, people are more apt to trust the naming as opposed to just being one of the "run of the mill mods with a price tag" in a giant deluge, this will also help and people are right to suspect the "noble intentions of a corporation that just wants to help you get paid for your work" but there's room to work with it and get over it, but co-option is a common tactic of moneygrubbers, and they've been quite successful around the world in causing problems, I've seen a lot of previously okay organizations get worse and worse as they make compromise after compromise - worse service for a higher price, by being too unaware of the problems that can exist from development of monetization systems, back in the 90's people would grumble but not that much since all the people affected or knowing of the affects also wouldn't have access to a computer really, and they're scared of monetary goals to a degree because of what they've seen

friends of mine feel that the triple A gaming industry is/should crash(ing), aka neotokyo is about to E.X.P.L.O.D.E. (not necessarily true but these days everything feels like it will) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architect_%28role_variant%29 The scientific systemization of all knowledge, or architectronics, is highly developed in Architects, who are intensely curious and see the world as something to be understood. Their primary interest is to determine how things are structured, built, or configured. Architects are designers of theoretical systems and new technologies. Rearranging the environment to fit their design is a distant goal of Architects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTP prelude: I'm new to mods, completely new, I mean so new that I discovered how they actually work as mod-ules that are independently put in just recently, I approach stories in an analytic manner pretty much every time so for me this post is about PC gaming, but I use more general trends as reference points to help place things in a different manner I have no programming skills but come up with all sorts of ideas and when the ball gets rolling I can come up with a full probably fully cohesive concept in 30 minutes, so it's a thing I was thinking of doing and am poking at learning the necessary skills to actually construct things that I think up - because I'd like to see about getting into game design as a career someday but I feel like I need to be able to prove myself first I've been listening to the totalbiscuit podcast, and I'd like to give a broader explanation of what's going on since my area of expertise is REVOLT and CONFLICT, that relates to what's going on since I've noticed that the overlord of nexus mods is a little naive about due to his narrow focus, his arguments are fair and legitimate for the most part but there's some effects from the real world (outside of the modding community in this case) that are outside his considerations that are reasonably well known about that change the dynamics in important ways and explains the reaction and the whole ordeal, firstly I'd like to say that this is about warnings and not simply dogmatic rejections of paid mods main body: neoliberalism provides insight into overly optimistic attitudes towards money, now I do know that many hobbyists include inter-change of goods and sales as well, so it's definitely true that this sort of thing can exist fairly decently, however gaming has elements that are different, in the environment we are in today in the gaming industry there's a lot of scummy sales practices, DLC galore is not necessarily scummy if the game model is properly done but there's a certain amount of temptation to do it inappropriately that doesn't exactly exist for physical goods I'm a socialist/anarchistic inclined person who's also completely atheistic to put forwards my bias (you might wonder why I refer to sin), libertarian socialist probably, neoliberalism has gotten a bad rap because it's ultimately responsible for a lot of expansionary behaviours by nation-states into other ones spheres, this is similar to valve being the gaming version of walmart, which comes from the neoliberal system - it's a system of ordering that has a lot of blind spots and the arguments are logical, sometimes rational but usually not wise to what's going on based on human nature taking advantage of those blind spots (chomsky calls it free market fundamentalism, sue me I agree), I don't mind a market, I think a market is possibly good creating a paid system for skyrim creates a divide - which DOES create jealousy, but it also destroys the community's amicability and disfavours the less skilled but dedicated individuals often - and helps flashy but less productive people get more of the tangible benefits, because where money is involved, manipulation of people and playing politics attracts more and more of the kinds of people that aren't as dedicated to modding for modding's sake, this is where gamergate kind of comes into the situation, roughly where it belongs intellectual properties benefit from memetic mutation and growth, running a site costs money, I think valve's main problem is that it's a corporation, trying to act "anarchistic" which is technically impossible but one can get close like how one approaches zero in calculus, but it's incredibly hard, for this reason I advise paranoia as the minimum antipathy to paid mods even if you're going forwards with them, the allure of monetary driven optimism is deceptive and is often how groups that previously puttered along less than gloriously but continually fall apart - this is where threats, mobs and let's say baltimore style behaviour comes into play, and avarice as a sin there's a lot of blame one can put all over the place when this sort of thing comes to a head, but my interest in posting is to provide some information so that people can be aware of it, and AVOID it to begin with TLDR: paid mods supporters don't get greedy, you will get greedy under the paid mods system done by valve, they try their best as a flat corporation but they're still a corporation and legally obligated to be greedy :s sorta paid mods dissenters don't threaten people? but I think you're right to be worried, but there are some reasnoable opportunities that could help encourage modding without threatening the modding for modding's sake aspects and not encouraging gold rush monetization schemes in general: look for ways to make donations a little more plausibly helpful! like a popularity thing, or mod of the week/day, that's community oriented, possibly with the overlord or some "untouchables" in terms of sheer popularity judging things - look for alternatives, thread them together as a cohesive package and be patient - also note that judges may not have any paid mods? well something like that, anti-corruption is a VERY important topic and central to this whole damn thing, because naive optimism is dangerous just like uneducated backlash, one is about "getting new things" and the other is about "keeping existing things" but it's ultimately about ground, the commons exist as an important anglo tradition BECAUSE it solves this problem for mutual usage amongst interested parties in history as one option - how you'd implement it I have no idea it's your community not mine (yet) *mod edit* You may actually be thinking this way, may have some points somewhere, but most of this comes off as senseless rambling and baiting. There is no good response when you open up saying "the AAA industry should burn". There is no good response when you come off stating clearly that you are an "expert" in causing revolt and conflict. There is no good response when you fall into politicized nonsense making claims about a thing you know next to little about. Thread closed with the strong suggestion that refrain from similar postings until you have a better sense of what this community is about. If you are just here to cause a stir, kindly move along and save everyone the headache. - Vagrant0