TheFlamingRed

In response to post #24784099. #24784289, #24785139, #24810294, #24811099, #24812869, #24813719, #24813764, #24826064 are all replies on the same post. I do recall the Build Your Own Home came out before Hearthfire... Which is one reason I never got that DLC until the there was a bundle offer for all DLC s... There are certain,y some huge overlaps between the two

In response to post #24811984. #24812039, #24813429, #24814149, #24814369, #24814459, #24814579, #24814829, #24815214, #24815539, #24815809, #24815829 are all replies on the same post. Kashrlyyk has hit a big nail here and Warzones is the perfect example of this. Warzones was amazing, but through lack of development became outdated through patches (and was heroically saved only a few months ago). But let's take this to the next game.... Elder Scrolls 6 comes out, paid mods comes out. Pay £2 for a mod. Patch 4 comes out breaks mod. Mod is broken and game auto-updates through steam. Author has moved onto modding another game, as not much revenue is being got through original mod. Big Issue that would prevent me from buying a mod until all patches were out. Would a mod author be bound by contract with beth/valve to fix this mod? I can see that there is money to be made in paid modding given the figures given, but there are also now consumer rights risks that never existed before. I'm not against that approach but it certainly has flaws to work out, both from the modders standpoint and consumers. I would like the idea of 'Open Source' style funding to keep a happy medium between purely free and purely paid modding, but that is something that needs to be sorted out by the community leaders amoung themselves.

In response to post #24811984. #24812039, #24813429, #24814149, #24814369, #24814459, #24814579, #24814829, #24815214, #24815539, #24815809 are all replies on the same post. I should add at this point, that all the points I am making are off the bat of Alen. I'm not against the principle, I am saying that I cannot see myself or many modders paying for mods without the ability of testing or, and in my case, seeing some sort of time of enjoyment to money spent ratio. That is impossible to do without some sort of demo. And in addition, if a purely free but less feature version came out, I may still coose to keep that rather then pay for updated version. This leaves test periods... but how long I may wish to test compared to another may differ significantly. I would stuggle to justify to pay for something that may result in my saved game being currupted (thinking old Warzones - awesome at the time, didn't get developed and caused some horrible issues and had to remove it - though admittedly, love the fact they came back and redid it) - but I have no quarms about dealing with such hurdels with free mods... I accept that when using mods, the game will be less stable, but if it happened on something I paid for. These are problems that need to be addressed before you get people like me investing in free mods. I must appologise to the OP as I have derailed the topic a little, as I my thoughts take me through the scenarios of 'why are paid mods better for the mod author too'. I would think anyone who paid money to get these mods, would normally be more then willing to donate to them too!

In response to post #24811984. #24812039, #24813429, #24814149, #24814369, #24814459, #24814579, #24814829, #24815214 are all replies on the same post. Awesome, that is some decent money in 5 days. Again, as a normal consumer of mods, and probably about to subject myself to a lot of hate mail, I would not have got any of those mods, nor would I recommend any of them to anyone I know. The only one i recognise is Wet and Cold - is it the same version as they one that is free on here? Looking at Purity, lots of Subs and decent money. It made its way to nexus now and in less then a day, has about 3.5x the number of downloads. Its shame we didn't get to see what those figures would have looked like in a month. Would it have continued to grow, is the audience limited? All it does look like is, providing it for free makes mods far more outreaching but apparently undervalued, and paid mods get some more cash but will narrow the audence significantly. In the end, I guess it is upto the motivations of a mod maker and what they want to see happen out of their mods. Are there mod makers who want to make a profit? Would they be happy with just more donations? I look back on Wet and Cold... Please let me know if it is the same, or near same to the version they have on here... if so, who are the people playing for it? I find it hard to believe they are all new people who have never heard of it before. If many of the people buying it are from the Nexus and said "I will buy it to show my support", then something has gone wrong if they are not getting similar money via donations at the moment!

In response to post #24811984. #24812039, #24813429, #24814149, #24814369, #24814459 are all replies on the same post. That is a shame that asking for donations is now permitted. I love open source software, and in that light, I have donated to things I find almost essential. If modders would like donations to keep on developing, then I see no harm in them stating that fact. Hell, if it means they can use the money to get better hardware, take an hour off their working week so thay can mod a bit more, I don't believe donations generate so little. Hell, even a mini Kickstarter for mods or mod development wouldn't be farfetched if authers wanted some sort of donations to the modding cause. In open source, you will never make money to live off of like a business will provide, but there is a saying that "if you're providing something good, people want to give you money". By keeping donations on the hush-hush,'means that most people probably don't reliase that you can even donate in this way to mod authors... This is something that maybe Nexus should look at itself (i do not claim to know if there are any legal ramifications of such practice)

In response to post #24811984. #24812039, #24813429, #24814149 are all replies on the same post. I am surpised modders got a thousand pounds revenue out of a paid not and not through donations. That has confused me greately as I would assume that the target audience would be people who already got free mods. Still, could you point me to the figures you suggested, I cannot find where they are or what mods it was for. Where these for long standing mods or brand new mods? I really cannot find any information. I am interested to see what the size of the market would be, compared to the the current market for free mods allowing for donations. I, as stated above, would not think the average mod user would use paid mods, so the aim is definatly a niche market, and I am curious just how big that market is.

In response to post #24748294. #24748909, #24748959, #24749014, #24749054, #24749074, #24749089, #24749114, #24749169, #24749269, #24749289, #24749409, #24749439, #24749529, #24749564, #24749574, #24749674, #24749709, #24749814, #24749884, #24749889, #24749954, #24750114, #24750204, #24750249, #24750254, #24750279, #24750544, #24750564, #24750709, #24750814, #24750904, #24751449, #24751489, #24751899, #24751974, #24752079, #24752334, #24752454, #24753799, #24754219, #24754259, #24754609, #24754739, #24754979, #24755419, #24755704, #24755774, #24755999, #24756039, #24756394, #24756489, #24756599, #24756669, #24756944, #24757404, #24757709, #24757794, #24757819, #24757959, #24758109, #24758244, #24758549, #24758604, #24758779, #24758789, #24759069, #24760799, #24760824, #24765454, #24765899, #24766564, #24766884, #24767039, #24767164, #24769074, #24769604, #24770129, #24770469, #24770524, #24770899, #24771494, #24771584, #24771729, #24771929, #24772554, #24773334, #24811954, #24812669, #24812944, #24813194 are all replies on the same post. Looking purely at statisitcs is very misleading. Know that Youtubers can have thousands of subscribers, and some of their videos only have a few hundred views. Videos with millions of views may only have a few thousand people click the Like or Don't like button (1-10% is quite normal), and even less people will subscribe to a person, despite probably watching almost every single of their videos. Its a fact that most of a fanbase is actually completely silent. I am subscribed to Linsey Stirling, a violinist who dances a bit - I have never clicked like on her video, never once commented. To her, I am silent, not contributing. However, in her case, I bought both her albums through amazon - I have told lots of my friends about her who may one day buy her album and been to her gigs on two occassions. When I was teaching, there was one video I would show a class as I thought it had a good message within the video, and from that, one student (who was one of the students who was interested in dance anyway) inquired directly about her. This girl maybe completely inspired by her and her life changed because of this video (unlikely but... small events in childhood can effect out lives). The point is, the silent downloaders, who are probably the majority of any fanbase, mods in this case, appreciate what you do. We may not endorce or say thank you or comment or anything like that - and maybe some may deem us as ungrateful or unworthy to have these mods, byt know that most of us who remain silent appreciate the work you do, will spread it, and get enjoyment from it. When people release things for free on the interent, be it a mod or a youtube video, I hope that knowledge alone gives the mod makers, the youtubers, some satisfaction by putting your mod out there.

In response to post #24811984. #24812039 is also a reply to the same post. This is probabily the view of many modders who really don't say much in the community and simple download mods and play the game, of which I am one and know of several others of similar opinion. It's not like we're heartless for not posting a comment and saying thanks, but we test these mod, enjoy them in our own way and recommend it to our friends if they're good. To carry on the main point here, if Paid Mods were introduced from the get go of Skyrim, and SKYUI was a paid mod - I would never have paid money for it without trying it first - even though it's a mod that noone plays without. The risk / reward ratio wouldn't have been worth my money. If a mod required SKYUI, a mod I didn't pay for, I wouldn't have even looked at that mod once I read that dependancy, and I feel that many others would have done the same. Like said above, I would never pay to test to see if I liked a new mod. I am like this with games in general too, if there is no demo, no friend who has it, no Let's play whose first hour makes me think "I need to stop watching and get this game", I simply don't play that game. Falkstar via Gopher's Let's Play, may be the only mod I would have ever paid for if it was a paid mod on release. His spotlights probably would not have been enough for me to get any utility mods, or combat mods, or apparance changing mods, as I look at my money in a 'Pounds Per Minute of Enjoyment' ratio, without any first hand expereince as to whether I would enjoy something or not. Skywind and Skyblivion and Haar-Nien-something would have been the only other mods I may have paid for, given the size and scope of their respective projects (though whether they will ever be finished is another thing) So Beth/Valve were smart to use a game that already had famous mods that perhaps people would pay for, as it would be very hard to get new people using any paid mods - so looking at that scenario... SKYUI again as everyone knows it, Let's say they released V1 of SkyUI free, but V2 onwards paid... Well, I'd have installed the original version and I remember well how amazed I was at how better the interface was - however, this is their main selling point. V2 onwards did add things, but if they were behind a pay wall, I will probably only stayed with the original, If other mods, free or paid, required V3 with mod configerator - this would not be enough for me to buy it also, I'd just not be testing these other mods (aside that, a feel a lot less people would have made this a requirement had Mod Config been a paid for only feature). I love SKYUI, but without knowing better, I would have loved the original and would have comfortably lived ignorantly how much better V4 is and keep my money. I do not know how many people actually donate, or how much people were earning for the brief amount of paid mods, but I would not have assumed it would have been all that much different to them in the long run, especially if most of the audence of mods are people like me (I cannot even recall the Nexus policy for modders asking for donations but I would hope it is not opposed to such practice). Maybe I will be seen in a bad light here for being tight, unhelpful for not providing income to the mod makers. I also have no stance on this paid/free modding argument as it kinda slipped under my radar until I red this post. But even though I do not post very much, nor endorce all mods i download, or donate. What I am though, is a big appreciator of the mods here, someone who advertised people I know to try mods I know they will enjoy (I cannot count how many times I have recommened SKYUI to people who still play Skyrim unmodded, and iNPCs to basically everyone who loves the game. While I am not contributing much myself, I hope through my advertisements, and the network of advertisements of mods I give, that someone will be donating, endorcing, becoming usefully active in this community. Anyway, this was just how I see things from being a very much outside / conveince user of this site and mods in general. I mean no disrespect to anyone, and all statements correspond only to my own thoughts. Take Care Red