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Blitz54

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Posts posted by Blitz54

    Force install to C is a no go

    in Vortex Support

    Posted

    I have an SSD C drive, and have plenty of space free on it with a bunch of things installed. So i don't really see much of an issue.

    I mean I have plenty of space on mine too, but I'd rather have only Windows and other very important programs on it. Vortex and NMM are not part of those very important programs :P

     

    But I do hope they allow us to change install location come full release. I hate having things auto install to where they wanna be.

    Wanted: NMM Testers and Focus Group

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #36910965. #36911220, #36923925, #36926780, #36929315 are all replies on the same post.


    prinyo wrote:

     

    In response to post #36893740.


    Jinxxed0 wrote: I dont want to share my profiles because I modify just about every single mod i download and at least 60% of the mods i use come from somehwere else or are my personal mods. I dont want to download other people's profiles either. so please don't ruin the experience for those of us who don;'t want that stuff. Don't be windows 8/10

    Then don't share your profile or download other people's profiles, then...

     

     

    I read this reply as a promise that the new profile uploading features will be implemented as truly optional with no impact on the people who don't want to use them. That's good news!

     

    Such a reassurance is needed, because only several months ago the profiles themselves were added as an obligatory to use feature with far reaching consequences for people who don't want to use them but have no way to switch them of.

    (You can't "not use the profiles", by design you are always using some default profile. Even if you never create a profile you are using the one the software created for you with all the consequences of the virtual install logic)

     

    jinxxed0 was simply expressing the concern that I also (an other users) have that the new features will not be entirely optional and will create additional problems for the users who don't want to use them. So it is really nice the have the assurance of the site owner that this is not going to be the case.

    Dark0ne wrote: It would be a huge breach of privacy if all the mods you use in NMM were automatically shared with everyone on the internet. So, naturally, this is going to be completely opt-in and can safely be ignored if you have no interest in it.
    phantompally76 wrote: Would it have killed you to word it like this initially rather than to go out of your way to try to make Jinxxed0 feel stupid? He's a supporter for God's sake. Why would you do that?

    I wasn't aware it was going to be an opt-in, either. I don't think most people are. Everything about it has felt invasive, unnecessary and overcomplicated. I haven't forgotten how upset people were when they installed 0.61 in good faith, had to reinstall their entire mod stack (which may have taken years to collect, tweak and get to play nice with each other) and when expressing their disappointment were essentially met with "Well, you should have read the agreement more carefully. It was right there in big red letters, you contemptible morons". This is why I'm still using 0.56.1, and I asked two pages back whether this still happens when you upgrade. I didn't receive a response, so I have no intentions of upgrading, simple as that.

    Are you going to condescend me and try to make me feel stupid as well? I suppose you have a better claim to do so than you did for Jinxxed0, because I'm not a supporter or premium member (and this is a prime example of why I am not), but come on, man. I understand it's your site, your rules, your little kingdom where your word is law, and I get that. I just don't understand why you would go out of your way to make people who have given you money feel stupid because they don't know as much about the software as you do. Ignorance does not equal stupidity, and misinformation does not warrant such condescension.

    I like this site, and I like being a part of this community, and I appreciate the webspace. And I understand this is a business and source of income for you. But sometimes, man, sometimes I have to really bite my tongue when I read your correspondences with the community. And I don't think I'm alone.
    DuskDweller wrote: If you don't want to use the new functionality, just ignore the new tab, NMM won't force you into it.

    If you just want to backup your profile for you and only you to access, so you and only you can download it using your Nexus credentials on a another pc or after a complete system reboot, you can just have an online backup.

    If you want to share it you can click on the button to share it, if at any time you want to hide it from public you'll be free to do that by simply pressing a button.
    Dark0ne wrote:
    In response to post #36910965. #36911220, #36923925, #36926780 are all replies on the same post.


    prinyo wrote:

    In response to post #36893740.


    Jinxxed0 wrote: I dont want to share my profiles because I modify just about every single mod i download and at least 60% of the mods i use come from somehwere else or are my personal mods. I dont want to download other people's profiles either. so please don't ruin the experience for those of us who don;'t want that stuff. Don't be windows 8/10

    Then don't share your profile or download other people's profiles, then...

    I read this reply as a promise that the new profile uploading features will be implemented as truly optional with no impact on the people who don't want to use them. That's good news!

    Such a reassurance is needed, because only several months ago the profiles themselves were added as an obligatory to use feature with far reaching consequences for people who don't want to use them but have no way to switch them of.

    (You can't "not use the profiles", by design you are always using some default profile. Even if you never create a profile you are using the one the software created for you with all the consequences of the virtual install logic)

    jinxxed0 was simply expressing the concern that I also (an other users) have that the new features will not be entirely optional and will create additional problems for the users who don't want to use them. So it is really nice the have the assurance of the site owner that this is not going to be the case.

    Dark0ne wrote: It would be a huge breach of privacy if all the mods you use in NMM were automatically shared with everyone on the internet. So, naturally, this is going to be completely opt-in and can safely be ignored if you have no interest in it.
    phantompally76 wrote: Would it have killed you to word it like this initially rather than to go out of your way to try to make Jinxxed0 feel stupid? He's a supporter for God's sake. Why would you do that?

    I wasn't aware it was going to be an opt-in, either. I don't think most people are. Everything about it has felt invasive, unnecessary and overcomplicated. I haven't forgotten how upset people were when they installed 0.61 in good faith, had to reinstall their entire mod stack (which may have taken years to collect, tweak and get to play nice with each other) and when expressing their disappointment were essentially met with "Well, you should have read the agreement more carefully. It was right there in big red letters, you contemptible morons". This is why I'm still using 0.56.1, and I asked two pages back whether this still happens when you upgrade. I didn't receive a response, so I have no intentions of upgrading, simple as that.

    Are you going to condescend me and try to make me feel stupid as well? I suppose you have a better claim to do so than you did for Jinxxed0, because I'm not a supporter or premium member (and this is a prime example of why I am not), but come on, man. I understand it's your site, your rules, your little kingdom where your word is law, and I get that. I just don't understand why you would go out of your way to make people who have given you money feel stupid because they don't know as much about the software as you do. Ignorance does not equal stupidity, and misinformation does not warrant such condescension.

    I like this site, and I like being a part of this community, and I appreciate the webspace. And I understand this is a business and source of income for you. But sometimes, man, sometimes I have to really bite my tongue when I read your correspondences with the community. And I don't think I'm alone.
    DuskDweller wrote: If you don't want to use the new functionality, just ignore the new tab, NMM won't force you into it.

    If you just want to backup your profile for you and only you to access, so you and only you can download it using your Nexus credentials on a another pc or after a complete system reboot, you can just have an online backup.

    If you want to share it you can click on the button to share it, if at any time you want to hide it from public you'll be free to do that by simply pressing a button.

    Indeed, it seems like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about something.

     

    I wasn't aware it was going to be an opt-in, either. I don't think most people are. Everything about it has felt invasive, unnecessary and overcomplicated.


    Are you claiming to speak for the majority here? And you talk about my audacity...

    Considering that using profiles in the new build of NMM (0.60 onwards) is completely optional, it would be very hard to force people to share profiles they may or may not even be using! As you've said you don't even use any versions of NMM 0.60+ onwards, I understand why you might be confused. But don't try and claim you talk for the majority in your post because of your own confusion on the matter.

     

    "Well, you should have read the agreement more carefully. It was right there in big red letters, you contemptible morons"


    Indeed, at the time of the 0.60 release of NMM and the subsequent issues, I admonished the people sending us death threats, thanked those very small amount of users who'd given us meaningful bug reports, and I expressed a shock that so many people blindly install updates of beta software that's well known and documented to have regular buggy releases. I also encouraged people to read the release notes and any warnings prior to clicking "next" continuously on future updates until the update process is finished without reading anything.

    I still stand by that. Sorry if that some how insults you.

     

    Are you going to condescend me and try to make me feel stupid as well?


    I'm going to talk to you the same way I have talked to everyone for the past 15 years on this site. If you feel like this is condescension then...er....ok!?

     

    I just don't understand why you would go out of your way to make people who have given you money feel stupid because they don't know as much about the software as you do. Ignorance does not equal stupidity, and misinformation does not warrant such condescension.


    Personally, I don't understand where you got the idea that I was treating Prinyo like an idiot in my response. Or indeed, why you felt the need to come in and White Knight him like this. Perhaps I'm just blind to it, or perhaps it's that seeming(ly obvious) chip on your shoulder again? I answered his question, and gave him a good reason why we would never do such a thing to boot as well. If you think that's rude or insulting then...er...ok?

     

    I like this site, and I like being a part of this community, and I appreciate the webspace. And I understand this is a business and source of income for you. But sometimes, man, sometimes I have to really bite my tongue when I read your correspondences with the community. And I don't think I'm alone.


    I am, and always have been, blunt, direct, to the point, and openly lacking in every PR skill going. I'm bloody sure you're not alone in your distaste for how I interact with certain situations. Do you think I really mind that? Of course I don't. I've been doing this for 15 years now. The way I talk hasn't changed, and likely won't change. Some people like the blunt approach I have, others despise it and say I have a (misplaced) superiority complex. Frankly, I don't really give a rats. This is just who I am and how I do things.

    I feel like you've blown up over the most ridiculous thing. Re-reading my original response, I really don't get why you got your knickers in a twist over it. I can only assume that you have that chip on your shoulder from the 0.60 release, which you didn't appreciate, and as such it's manifesting itself now over the silliest of things so you can get your point across to me about how you dislike how I talk to people in certain situations.

    Thanks for letting me know you dislike how I talk to people.


    Roasted. So. Hard.

    Valve/Bethesda announce paid modding for Skyrim, more games to follow

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24565684. #24565749, #24565819, #24565874, #24565944, #24566139, #24566154, #24566189, #24566214, #24566264, #24566339, #24566349, #24566439, #24566459, #24566504, #24566524, #24566569, #24566579, #24566644, #24566769, #24566779, #24566819, #24566909, #24566934, #24567024, #24567079, #24567154, #24567239, #24567264, #24567269, #24567344, #24567354, #24567469, #24567539, #24567564, #24567664, #24568174, #24568504, #24568524, #24569644, #24570059, #24570684, #24570944, #24571509, #24571604, #24572384, #24582389, #24582414, #24582584, #24582599, #24582694 are all replies on the same post.


    Brumbek wrote:
    Zaldiir wrote: Wait a little bit. See if the updated donation system here on NexusMods will make more people donate. :thumbsup:

    If it doesn't increase the amount of donations, then I don't blame you for wanting just a little bit of compensation for your hours of work. $1 or $2 is definitely not greedy - just a shock for a lot of people.
    athiust wrote: Your awesome you have caused alot of joy in alot of people and have created satisfaction and an echo within the community
    RJ the Shadow wrote: What I think is an option, and an error on Valve's part for not thinking of/considering this, is to make payment optional.

    Was there not a thing in the music market (with CD sales only suffering more as years go by) where some artists put up a "pay what you want, or nothing at all" for the mp3's and the sales made for them reached above what they had earned on previous works?

    A non-negotiable option should have been to have the mod for free, with payment a convenient option (ideal with Steam have it's Wallet).

    There ARE people out there who want to vote with their wallet. But they're not given the option. Instead, they are forced to offer their wallet or are refused the content. And as made obvious, Valve will paywall anything, not even trusting us to use our money to show thanks.

    It differs from Paypal Donations because the question is directly forced upon the user. Whereas a Donation button can be skipped or ignored.
    Being asked on the spot if you actually want to pay nothing for the content you're about to receive, plays on our sense of morality.
    Velgath wrote: My biggest problem with the new system as-is is it kind of screws with people using alternative modding tools like Mod Organizer. Your mod is very worth a fee, but I still wouldn't buy it if it were on Workshop... that said, I may have just clicked a button on your profile page.
    Brumbek wrote: Thank you for the comments. Again, I'm so torn. I view myself as an average person. I don't want to be greedy or unfair. Sadly, this new system will bring out the greed in many. Valve, itself, is already pushing $1-3 weapons/armor. Then there's my mod and others like it...so much effort and passion into it. I hate to say human nature is the real issue here...

    SMIM does accept donations on Nexus of course (much thanks to you and others who have donated), but in truth my total donations has been very, very low. So for Steam, I see why they want to force a price...people just won't pay if they don't have to, even if they adore a mod and wouldn't play without it. I'm not judging. I will continue to develop my thoughts. Thanks again to everyone who makes this a great community.
    heero328 wrote: Do what you have to do. I don't believe anybody would blame you for charging around $2 for SMIM. For what the mod does, that's incredibly generous on your part. I think many are more concerned with the long term implications this could have on modding and the adverse effects of it. It's not necessarily the issue of mod authors receiving money, but the fact publishers and developers are now trying to get a piece of the pie as well.
    1erCru wrote: Torn? Um, you have 2.3 million unique downloads. If you charge $2 bucks for the SMIM and take 25% of the cut thats over a million bucks bro.

    This is a game changer.
    A1Shareef wrote: Its not greedy but think about the modding community as a howl, i bet if you write this in the description of your mod people would be happy to donate you anyway. Its not worth for 25% killing this Community and putting Gamers out there into Electronic Slavery. Plz think about it.
    boulegue wrote: to be honest before the paid service for the steam workshop came out i have never even seen the donation button (im not using SMIM since i play on a potato) but you sir defnetly deserve donations or payment period.
    you can also set up your mod on both the steam workshop and the nexus and just see what happens
    ambria wrote: @ 1erCru
    That's presuming everyone who'd downloaded would pay though.
    As someone who's made music and put it on bandcamp I can tell you the drop off between downloading for free and paying is huge, even with a tiny paywall like $0.50
    I'll have 100 download for free, but only 5-10 with that paywall there
    Blademaster1215 wrote: All I'm going to say, while I very much love SMIM, and I appreciate the work you do. I would uninstall SMIM right now if you started paygating. I'd more than happily donate to you -- In fact I'll drop you 10 buck through the Nexus donation system if you don't do paygating.
    Psijonica wrote: what is the difference if I pay or donate? If people think that they will get donations then they might as well sell them.

    I will never donate or pay. I will sooner stop playing these games altogether just like I don't buy music any more... There will always be a way to get these mods for free...

    This is a sad sad day indeed... sadder still is that the Nexus sees it's future in begging people top donate money for their modders... this place lacks vision and the Nexus will fall apart if they don't change they way they conduct business.
    SirTopas wrote: Brumbek, I understand your position. You've put in a ton of work on SMIM and you certainly have kept it supported and working. You certainly deserve compensation for your work, but does Steam/BethSoft deserve 75% of the proceeds?
    RJ the Shadow wrote: Torn or not, if you join in the paywall game, the rules will change. Nothing guarantees you'll get a lion's share of those 2.3 million unique downloads to be turned into people paying.
    And you'll still be paying a huge part of the result to Valve and Bethesda.

    If this proves a successful venture (for Valve) in the end, there is very little stopping these companies from looking for ways to counter websites like the Nexus. Valve has proven well enough to happily chase after any angles that make money, consequences be damned.

    I know, I know. It's real easy for me to talk like this and not be in your position. It's very easy for me to say that taking part could set a worse precedent for the future. And I am, deeply, sorry that you are forced to find yourself in this position.
    But it doesn't make it any less true.
    EvilDeadAsh34 wrote: @1erCru

    You think that many people would download it if he charged? Think again.

    Don't get me wrong. I love what he did and i have made compatibility patches for one of my mods to work with his, but if he charged i wouldn't use it. That goes for any mod.
    1erCru wrote: that wasnt my point. My point was simply that a mod like SMIM could generate enough money to make millions of dollars assuming that eventually all mods will be pay to play ( I'd bet on this being true after 5-7 years, its what happens when you monetize just about anything )

    Even a fraction of those numbers is hundreds of thousands of dollars. I was clarifying that this isnt about making some " extra coin ". Top modders will get rich off this.

    Free modding is dead.
    IgnacyOrder wrote: Im for rewarding a modder who did spend a lot of time on his work. Im not a fan of iddea that all mods will be charged. Especially before testing them out. I mean I saw a crowbar for 1$...

    I hope donations will work better. Especially since modder will get 100% for his work than 25% only
    Uranium - 235 wrote: I think in part the reason donations are low is because Nexus has no unified, easy way to do it. Logging into a paypal and s#*! is just way too much work, not to mention Paypal is garbage in its own right.

    If I had a 'Nexus Wallet' or something where you could easily chip $0.50 or $1 in the direction of a mod with a single click of a button, that'd be one thing, but the other problem is you have to get people to fill their wallet.
    RiffyDivine wrote: Don't make me pay steam and I'll give you two dollars but since I paid for it I will expect support and updates since I now bought something. This adds expectations on you since you are selling a product now.
    Brumbek wrote: Thanks for the continued input. To be clear, SMIM will NEVER, EVER be removed from Skyrim Nexus. It will always be free here, ALWAYS. I've never enjoyed sharing donation info because it makes me seem like I'm pressuring people. But changes to Nexus to improve the visibility of donations would be fine of course.

    As for Steam, I understand people not wanting modding to die or something, but honestly I doubt that would happen. The type of people who overcharge or force people to pay are generally not the people we want in our community anyway. Also, there's no denying thousands of people on Steam way overspend on nonsense stuff. Just look at DOTA2 and CS:GO. Artists put out a simple skin and make lots of money. It pains me that people pay so much for so little...plus it tends to drown out the truly worthy content...and in my mind SMIM is worth $2 for the convenience of using Steam Workshop for casual users.

    For clarity, SW currently doesn't allow us to truly limit prices. We pick a default price and then the range of $0.25 to $99 always shows in the list. You can force a minimum but not maximum! I do not want to let users pay over $2 because I don't want to engage in extortion! But currently I can't limit it...hence why I'm undecided.
    Rigmor wrote: You will eventually isolate yourself, maybe not you IF all your work is your own. But take my mod, employs a team of over 12 voice actors, who pays them? never mind about the other mod authors works included, with their kind permissions, and I worked over 1300 hours in the CK, but I cannot (wont) charge a fee. It's untenable. So why should YOU make money, but not ME? Already the split is showing.

    It will eventually be greed wins the day, modders will change the way they do things cynically based of making money. The users, should speak with their wallets, and NEVER entertain this disgusting act Valve and Bethesda (shame on them) have unleashed, a pandoras box, endorse and donate yes. Pay to play NO!
    RJ the Shadow wrote: More like pay for the luxury of having it modded...
    sigh
    1erCru wrote: Rigmor you nailed it. This is real bad stuff. The money involved is just way too much.

    Greed never loses
    icecreamassassin wrote: @Brumbek

    I too am very torn for sure. I've spent well over 5000 hours on my mod in the 1+ year it's been in development, have a half million views, 100K downloads, 2000 endorsements and maybe $120 in total donations? if I were working at McDonalds during that entire time instead of modding I could have made over $20,000. Yes I do mod because I enjoy it, but I think the VAST majority of users takes us for granted under the pretense of it being a community aimed effort, which I am very big on, but the fact of the matter is that most people won't pay for anything they can get for free if given the choice, sad fact of the matter. I do think though that the lack of exposure of the donation option is at least a little to blame. Half of folks who would donate don't even notice it and I know that if it popped up a little more often like on the download sever like the endorsement reminder does, more folks might give a few dollars. I know I certainly didn't notice the button until a user asked if I accepted them and then I looked into it and realized I could set the button up.

    It's a hard thing because there are so many legal and ethical ramifications to consider
    HeloMAN wrote: +1 To Rigmor.

    How many mods use SKSE or other assets that aren't theirs? It's unfair to take payment for something you may have spent alot of time on...but isn't all yours. Rigmor you earn mine and many other's respect.

    While I currenlt don't use your mod (and never have), I may in the future, and when I do I will surely hand a few dollars over as thanks for your work if you accept donations. Don't cave in like these greedy traitors.

    While I can understand some people's "need" to make some money off their work, theres just too many things wrong with it. Plus, if they really can't work on their mods because of limitations, then stop. Modding is about the enjoyment, not about money, and if you cease to enjoy it or simply cannot do it, then stop.

    EDIT: LOL one of my posts was deleted, nice censorship nexus mods! Can't believe they are supporting steam's workshop BS.
    ambria wrote: I'm very skeptical that even the biggest of the big modders could "get rich" from this.
    Because of the aforementioned drop off from free to pay wall, plus the 75% cut taken.
    It would have to be a very big and popular mod, and those normally include a lot of mod resources, voice actors, quality insurance testers, you name it, and the mod author would have to be giving all those a cut??

    I think the best a mod author could hope to make out of this would equate to minimum wage when compared to the hours they put in.

    But I could be wrong, I guess we'll see
    ramccoid wrote: We are here to play a game, it's a game not life. We mod to make the game more enjoyable and we share that experience, so others can enjoy the difference we have made. Where does money come in to it.
    antipax wrote: 1erCru: 2 million downloads over a few years, and unless he removed SMIM from the Nexus, people will still download the free, old version from here, not to mention who already downloaded it won't have to download it again, especially just for an update as it works pretty well.
    RiffyDivine wrote: You've got to remember that if a high price is set for a type of mod, let's say armor mods. If I charge 25 USD for it then the next guy to upload one will go s#*! I like 25 USD also then you set a standard of high prices and people will pay it making it a standard. I'd sooner pay you to not be on steam.
    iceburg wrote: You're mod is a delight and a necessity.

    It scares me that someone may realize the profit in stealing other peoples mods and placing them up for sale on steam. Now we mod authors need to monitor our mods on the nexus, and on steam, or someone could profit from our work!

    Seems like a nightmare situation to me.
    jediakyrol wrote: holy crap, man...don't know how I've passed over your mod before...I am downloading, endorsing, and sending you a fiver right now!
    mcguffin wrote: Just a thought:
    Endorsements show the number of people who actually care enough to just click something to say thank you, so people who will give money will be far lower, imho
    Brumbek wrote: @Rigmor: great points. Charging for mods does suddenly make us competitors. I obviously can't say your whole group deserves less than my mod. I would never want to imply my mod deserves anything. But this is the nature of the free market I suppose. People will pay for one thing over another. And often what people pay for is less deserving than something else. Valve are masters of getting people to pay for dumb stuff. CS:GO knives prove the insanity of the human mind.

    @icecreamassassin: point taken.

    Now I'm even more torn than ever! Thanks guys!! ;) At the end of the day though, the honest truth is I've come back to modding today because of this announcement...I'd like to think not out of greed but just...practicality?
    mkess wrote: Maybe the donation button should be a button direct behind the download button, with "If you like this mod, donate" Or something like that, with direct use of paypal. As a matter of fact, paypal was fdeveloped exactly for that reason.

    The button to be able to pay someone for his time and efforts should be more in palin side, and it should be worked into the mod-manager, too.

    Directly beside the endorse function. Because if you think about endorsing something, you are only one step away from spending a little money on it.

    And make it very easy to spend money. No registration. Only ONE click. I sometimes do not give any money at all, if I have to register with at least 10 data fields. Holy crap, are the insane? It should be as easy as taking a coin out of my purse, and gve it to someone.

    That's my oppinion.
    Teria23 wrote: I think you may get more people to donate if you simply state that you won't move SMIM over to the Dark Side, no matter how many cookies they offer...
    NoDebate wrote: Brumbek, I love SMIM. It's on my list with SkyUI and SKSE as mods I install regardless. All three are quintessential to improving the overall Skyrim experience. They're absolutely necessary. SMIM is high quality, unobtrusive, and fixes a great many things noticed (and appreciated) by those of us with an eye for detail. That said, charging two bucks for SMIM is not greedy. I find it to be reasonable for the work you've put into the project.

    However, as the current Steam Workshop model stands, a two dollar price tag turns into some fifty cents for you, given your work manages to sell so many copies. What has been offered up by Steam in exchange for taking the other 1.50? A little bit of advertising? A self regulated market? What has been offered by Bethesda for failing to provide appropriate meshes in the first place? Are they providing staff to assist you in creating, maintaining, or troubleshooting SMIM? I'm having a hard time now justifying the two bucks, knowing that 1.50 is going to plop on top of the eighty-some (for the game + DLC) I've given to some combination of Valve and Bethesda.

    I sympathize with your current position. You see an opportunity for some compensation and want that. I get it. What human being doesn't want to be formally recognized and compensated for their artistic work? Popular artistic work. Why do YouTubers doing mod spotlights make a bit of cash and you don't? Fifty cents is better than zero cents, right? Perhaps. However (and now I will fear-monger a bit), what does that 1.50 communicate in the long run? That a team of professionals can skip by on low-poly meshes and let ole' Brumbek fix up their Nuka-Cola machines in Fallout 4 with his FMIM? Take a 75% cut of his pricetag to boot? Smells like fishsticks to me.

    All this comes with a million and one questions regarding a "self-regulated market." To name a few... What determines the pricetag on a mod? As you've said and as I've seen, we already have minor cosmetics for a couple bucks as the recommended price tag. Chesko's Art of the Catch is essentially Skyrim Mod Early Access. Is there any accountability there? What determines a completed mod? Stable mod? Compatible mod? Can we trade mods on the Steam Market? Am I refunded if a mod no longer satisfies certain requirements? Am I refunded if a mod is no longer maintained? You get my point. I don't have any strong feelings regarding what you should do. I appreciate you communicating your concerns to the 'general public' and would welcome the opportunity to continue the discussion.

    In closing, I'll offer you a bit of background on myself. I have been playing Bethesda games since the release of Daggerfall. I will be coming up on twenty years here real quick. I'm in the middle of (yet another) Morrowind playthrough. Loaded to the gills with mods. I have mods saved on my portable drive from the PlanetElderScrolls days. We're talking at least ten years (go check out the Morrowind Mod History site). Everything from Morrowind Rebirth to the House of Armors. Modding is the life's blood of any Bethesda game, it's the only thing that allows me to play Morrowind here in 2015. I understand that no one works for free, I understand the thousands of hours people pour into intricate creations that rival (and often far out-do) the work of professionals but, the expectation is that this work has been done out of the passion of the series, Elder Scrolls or Fallout. That's what makes mods superior to any DLC Bethesda decides to vomit our way. Establishing a monetized modding scene goes a long way towards soaking up that passion. It also has me very concerned for the pending release of Fallout 4.
    Brumbek wrote: @NoDebate: great points, NoDebate (ah, the irony). You do have a good point about what it communicates if I let Valve/Bethesda take the large portion of my efforts. But my efforts would be impossible without their efforts. Ultimately, they take the majority of the money because *they can*. Those with the power, dictate the rules.

    The question I still wonder: will charging on Steam Workshop truly worsen modding? Again, it will be the charlatans and the greedy who overrun Steam Workshop, ultimately ruining it for everyone. So yes, should someone like me, a self-proclaimed nice guy who just loves modding, join the ugly fray? I don't know...I have these delusions that maybe the masses will recognize quality. Maybe I'm too optimistic. Thanks again, keep the discussion going.
    Monkeynutz76 wrote: as a part time modder myself I'm having the same delema many have donated there hard earned funds in thanks to my various mods on mount and blade FONV and skyrim but i find Very few donate .. even when they post how wonderful the mod is and heap praise upon my many hours .. sometimes months or in one case years of work ... while it is true i do it out of some sort of twisted love and desire to produce excellence in each of my mods ... yes im being cagey about which ones as many have an X disclaimer here .....the thought of being paid each download is appealing i wont deny. however i still believe that you should not be forced to pay for something you may not enjoy .... perhaps a trial period for each mod could offset the instant pain for each mod as well as a maximum fee cap so some of the greedy types can be controlled
    im not an advocate for the PAY TO PLAY system we are being forced to swallow like a load of ....
    that being said instant gratification is rather nice
    icecreamassassin wrote: On the note about competition there is literally nothing stopping modders from imitating one another's work and then basically undercutting them. Another thing to think about.
    SpyderArachnid wrote: While some people don't see it as being so bad to charge 1-2 dollars for their mod, they forget that you only get 25% of that. And ONLY if you make 100 dollars or more on your mod. So if you don't even make 100 dollars every month, you get nothing.

    And to top that off, the one thing they don't consider, your reputation. Communities have a deep hatred for people who put their mods behind a pay wall. So not only will you only be getting a few cents here and there, your reputation will be tarnished badly.

    Look at people like Isoku who did Wet and Cold. Their comments have been pruned and locked for all the stuff people have said once they found out the new updated was behind a pay wall. They are being harassed and have become the poster boy/example for paid mods on many other forums right now. A modder that people respected, their reputation is ruined now because of this.

    So while I get that you would like to make a buck here and there for your hard work, think about not only the money but what is going to happen to your rep if you do.
    FishBiter wrote: It amazes me that the focus here is on how greedy the modders are... rather than how modders are being tricked into letting themselves and their work be exploited for someone else's gain.
    NoDebate wrote: Okay, my Chrome crashed and I lost some of my DOOM WALL OF TEXT but, I am typing feverishly (no I'm not actually sweating, that'd be grody) as we speak. DOOM WALL OF TEXT IS COMING.
    Solongchu wrote: I agree with FishBiter if the modders were getting the 75% and not Steam I would consider paying for mods like SMIM.The way they have it set up the modders dont really get anything for their hard work and like others have said alot of these mods depend on resources that are not theirs and wont work without them.
    I really wonder what the skse team think about this.
    Aerial_ace wrote: For a mod like yours i would have no issue with paying some money, its just when some one go $2 for some crappy sword or armor, no
    NoDebate wrote: Brumbek, without going into great detail, though I presume one could find volumes on the subject, the Elder Scrolls used to exist as something of a 'niche' RPG. Overtime, as all good things do, the Elder Scrolls series continued to gather popularity and support, booming with Oblivion. Skyrim launched the Elder Scrolls somewhere into the stratosphere, where everyone and their grandmamas (that's grandmothers) were playing, talking about, or otherwise experiencing Skyrim. Now, regarding those volumes, we of the longtime veterans have noticed a trend (and yelled at each other about it in great excess) in the Elder Scrolls series. A move from buggy cRPG to buggy AAA title. Skyrim, now the gold-standard for open-world 'RPGs' (I would argue that one cannot have an RPG without classes or stats - a debate for another time) is once again trying to push the market in a particular direction, to redefine what it means to be a modder.

    Now, this is where you stop me. Hey! Debate! What about CS:GO? Dota 2? TF 2!? Those are the real innovators, they started hat market choo-choo train, that's really what got this rolling, right? In part, yes. I suspect Valve was motivated by the rampant success of user generated content within their own sphere of games. Heck, I've easily spent 300 bucks on Dota 2 cosmetics. The model works. Why? It's quick, easy, simple. Cosmetics have no game impact, can be mass produced, and be shown off. They're symbols of status, antiques, and currency. Points worth making so long as we are here. Genuine Timebreaker? Price inflated thanks to supply and demand. Consequence of not owning a Timebreaker? Minus five points for Gryffindor? Otherwise, nothing. What's in a Chroma Case? An 'Exceedingly Rare Special Item!' Will my CS:GO experience be drastically different if I do not own a Chroma Case? One could argue yes, I will suffice with a firm 'no.' So, we've established that user generated content has existed in a fashion that has little to no impact on the individual user experience. Let's bounce around a bit.

    Back to Bethesda! So how are we redefining what it means to be a modder? Isn't SMIM just another form of cosmetic bundled together in a neat little package? Yes and yes. Are we radically changing Skyrim by having not having SMIM installed? I'm obsessive compulsive so, yes. In reality, no. Skyrim is not a new game with SMIM installed [though sometimes it feels like it :(]. Morrowind Rebirth, Fallout Wanderer's Edition, New Vegas Enhanced Content, Project Nevada, Requiem, SkyRE - these are all total overhauls. Someone looking for a particular kind of experience, often goes to these types of "gameplay overhaul" mods to do so. Why does the player seek out these experiences? Because Bethesda has failed to provide the appropriate experience in the vanilla game. It's the consequence of success. In the process of becoming the "gold standard" Bethesda is forced to make difficult design decisions in order to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Systems get scrapped as "too spreadsheety" or "difficult to implement" or "detrimental to the new player experience." These "gameplay overhaul" mods provide the player with something the core game does not. The ability to customize or redefine the core experience to something more desirable. Now do note, I am not suggesting any of the aforementioned mods currently cost money. In fact, none of them do (to my knowledge). However, what happens when similar "gameplay overhauls" are only available at cost? When all the work and talent goes to developing the next "gameplay overhaul" available for Fallout 4? At say (arbitrary price, for the sake of even math), 16 bucks? Wait a second... Didn't I just pay 60 for this game? Why should I have to pay a modder 4 bucks and Bethesda 12 bucks for something that should be in Fallout 4 to begin with? Can't you expand my choice of available options in the vanilla game? What happened to the class system in Skyrim? Is it accessibility or cutting corners? Is there anything in Fallout 4 that can be snipped off, shoveling the workload on to modders, who then in turn give 75% of their proceeds to a pair of companies that invest nothing in the project?

    Let's try the previous exercise again, with a different twist. Tamriel Rebuilt, A World of Pain, Falskaar, Wyrmstooth - these are all significant content mods. We're talking about hundreds, if not thousands of hours combined. These hours include new areas/zones, NPCs, enemies, quests, weapons - the stuff of expansions. What happens if these user generated expansion packs become the only sellers on the Steam Workshop? With only 25% of the profits going to the people who made these expansions? Where's the pressure for Bethesda to create their own expansion packs? Why not just turn all their DLC into followers and cosmetics? Houses and quests (sold as mini-adventures of course)? Think of this in terms of simple efficiency. If you're expending say (arbitrary number incoming) 100,000 man hours, 100 guys working at 1,000 hours each, to drop the next big expansion for Fallout 4 while a team of modders can do the same work, without the benefit of salaries, wouldn't you just opt to let the modders do the work? You can focus your efforts on the next big release, new IPs, new sources of revenue. As the saying goes, "build it so the modders can fix it."

    Now, granted, this is all doomsday type stuff. Fire in the skies (smoke on the water). I could very easily argue against what I have just suggested. That stuff up there sounds like utter nonsense. Of course Bethesda isn't going to abandon their expansion packs, churn out fresh IPs, and outsource their work to modders. Right? But, do we want to risk the potential outcome? What happens if the worst does come to pass? I certainly don't want to see that happen. Now, I very well know SMIM will not cause the MODDING APOCALYPSE. Charging two bucks (or any number of bucks) for the content you have created is your right and is reasonable. However, can't modders take a second and say, "Hey! If you see enough value in the modding market to suggest a paid scheme, can I get a fair share?" Aren't Valve and Bethesda turning enough profit by investing near-to-nothing in the mods they host on the Workshop? Most consumers are reacting negatively because they like free stuff. I like free stuff. You could call that entitlement, sure. I call it simple caution. We won't know how far off Fallout 4 is until after June 14th (or whatever the reveal date is). Is it in our best interests, as both mod consumers and mod creators, to jump in feet first and not consider the potential consequences? Do we want to solidify the Bethesda Mod Market on a game that is almost four years old?

    Anyway, I could ramble for ages. I rarely get out and type this much on... Anywhere. Y'all feel free to pick it apart as you please. I'm going to go dig up some Ancient Dagoth Brandy and imagine what the MODDING APOCALYPSE will be like. However, I will leave you all with a quote I find... Appropriate. Let's not allow Bethesda to get so caught up in making money, that they forget what makes this community worthwhile.

    "Their collaboration with the Empire may have given them unrivaled political and economic strength, but their hearts weren't with the Dunmer people." -Adril Arano, on House Hlaalu.
    Brumbek wrote: @icecreamassassin: interesting point about people copying other's work. That's the thing about SMIM though, ain't nobody insane enough to copy it. It is too grueling. So in a sense I can see the Valve system working...only the best mods will consistently sell. This assumes Valve has a proper way of sorting and ranking paid mods, which is unclear. But yes, the easy nonsense mods will overrun the SW with imitations galore. Again, I fear the truly quality mods will be lost.

    Anyway, I still am torn...but never fear, all this has caused me to update SMIM to 1.75 finally. I will always, ALWAYS put the latest and greatest versions of SMIM on Skyrim Nexus. Withholding updates is diabolical. So in this sense, all us Nexus users never need to fear the SW. SMIM's true home is the Nexus, and I believe sincere and honest modders will gravitate to the Nexus, even if we allow SW to be a pay option for SW users.
    Elegost75 wrote: So your internal dispute is if you should upload on SW but keep it on Nexus for free?

    If so, just do it.
    Ramon1 wrote: I don't think it's greedy to ask money for your work, I just hope that the Nexus can devise a way to help with this, so you don't have to give a Valve/Bethesda a dime for your work. The best suggestion I've seen is some sort of ad based partnership, no idea how can they encourage people to donate more also, but I hope they can find a middle ground for non-greedy modders like you and also to keep the mod scene open and free, they way it has always been.

    marthgun wrote: I REFUSE to allow you (i will hunt you down) to get sucked into the shekel shoah that is steam.

    Pandora's box has been opened. The skids have to be greased for modders to make money, we should accept that reality. But no way should you sell yourself short by allowing valve to steal from you.

    25% is absolutely unacceptable. The fire rises. It will burn this thing to the ground. we need a rebuild initiative. Do not go to the dark side until the rebuild commences. the more high quality artists make the move now, the harder it will be to get an acceptable compensation.
    GenBloodhorn wrote: So does that mean youre not joining the dark side?


    In my opinion Brumbek, I feel that you could put SMIM on the Workshop for a price. I don't know what price, but considering some armor are 2 dollars by themselves, it makes you wonder how much you technically "could" charge.

    But I say this because you said you'd continue to update nexus to the latest version always. The way I see it, the mod is free, and it's accessible on a great site, easy to find. If someone is willing to pay whatever the price is on the Workshop, that's fine too. I say why shouldn't you (an author of a mod in nearly all Skyrim installs) not make money off of the "not so smart" people that only use the workshop for mods?

    But beware, comments on SMIM will still be spammed by upset people who think that wanting money for something they use is greedy. So I suggest waiting for a while to see how this whole workshop thing goes down.

    Automation Tools for TES5Edit - Suggestions Thread

    in Skyrim LE

    Posted

    Suggestion here.


    I think a database of all the alchemy properties and their common values would be very handy. I myself messed up with the magnitude and length of alchemy properties on my ingredients. Which made for overpowered game breaking potions. I would love to see a script to check all the properties on the ingredients, and make them equal with vanilla Skyrim values. I would gladly gather all the values for the properties, and I would also put them all into the script if a template was provided. I think this would be a very handy tool, as it could fix mods like Bugs 101 which is constantly said to have bad values.


    Of course this seems like one massive script. So that's why I offer my help. :P

    Latest site updates

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    Thanks for the update people! I noticed the Notification globe looked different than before, pretty sure it used to have a number beside it all the time. Been waiting for Notifications to be worked on for a while now, so I am very happy with this. :)

    A Open Letter to Alchemy Modders

    in Skyrim LE

    Posted

     

     

     

    Even people who work for free are held accountable for damage done in negligence by their work. Updating a description takes a few minutes and lets users who care either way know what they are getting.

    Actually in this case no. Modders strive to make the mod as amazing and perfect it can be, but it is the users decision to install it in the first place. A modder can't be held responsible for any damage done from "negligence" or lack of knowledge. The only way the modder can be held responsible for any damage is if they purposely uploaded a mod or malware to damage the persons game, save, or computer in general.

     

     

    You've misunderstood my point or ignored it entirely. Take your pick and read carefully.

     

    The subject wasn't save game corruption or damage to the saves or games in any way. The "damage" is mods waltzing about pretending they are balanced or not citing possible unintended exploits.

     

    For instance an armor mod that fails to cite that the chest piece grants 10,000% health regen. This is a failure of negligence on the author's part to properly describe his work. Users install and suddenly notice they aren't dying or taking damage. This is on a new playthrough so they can't figure out what mod is giving them their godlike status.

     

    I would hold the mod author accountable for that kind of negligence. It isn't the user's fault for installing it, their only recourse would be to open every mod in the creation kit and understand entirely all of its systems.

     

    I don't think it is too much to ask of authors to describe their changes especially ones with outlandish gameplay effects like 1200 seconds of slow time in a potion.

     

     

    "if they purposely uploaded a mod or malware to damage the persons game, save, or computer in general."

     

    As you can see, I did list game. Which included unintentional exploits, errors, and other things related to gameplay. So I did not miss the subject. I simply added more points of things that could also happen.

     

    If there is an armor mod that is way OP and is not cited in the description, that doesn't automatically mean the modder doesn't care. It means they missed a piece in the description, or they made a typo in the settings in their .esp, and maybe by some odd chance, they purposely did it to mess with peoples playthroughs.

     

    "I would hold the mod author accountable for that kind of negligence. It isn't the user's fault for installing it, their only recourse would be to open every mod in the creation kit and understand entirely all of its systems."

     

    Again, no. It is not the authors fault. It's up to the user to download the mod and use it. Just as any other program you download. You always run the risk of encountering bugs no matter what it is. If the mod looks sketchy, don't download, don't endorse, just keep on scrolling.

     

    "their only recourse would be to open every mod in the creation kit and understand entirely all of its systems"

     

    You should do this regardless. When you go to buy a car, you make sure to research it and understand possible flaws and problems with it. Would you just walk into a dealership and say "I want the red one" and buy it on the spot? If not, why would you do so with your game.

     

    Let's use an example here. Midas Magic. Great mod, but it was made before the CK came out so there are issues with it currently. The author is no longer on nexus and does not update the mod anymore. Is he/she in trouble for not updating their mod to the new Skyrim version? Are we mad at the author for providing a great mod for earlier versions, but leaving us outdated with bugs later on? Answer is no. They took their own free time to make a mod for people to use, they didn't and DON'T owe us anything. Same as any author.

     

    I think that covers it all. Kind of hard to type with no key on my C and V keys. Gotta press the bubble for it.

    A Open Letter to Alchemy Modders

    in Skyrim LE

    Posted

     

    Even people who work for free are held accountable for damage done in negligence by their work. Updating a description takes a few minutes and lets users who care either way know what they are getting.

    Actually in this case no. Modders strive to make the mod as amazing and perfect it can be, but it is the users decision to install it in the first place. A modder can't be held responsible for any damage done from "negligence" or lack of knowledge. The only way the modder can be held responsible for any damage is if they purposely uploaded a mod or malware to damage the persons game, save, or computer in general.

    A Open Letter to Alchemy Modders

    in Skyrim LE

    Posted · Edited by Blitz54

     

     

    Yes, I have made errors in my mod. It's expected. This was my first ever project involving modelling, textures, scripting, and modding in general. Some things I did not know the issues of before. Example. I only used health potions, nothing else. So I never knew about the alchemy potion exploit until later.

     

    That's really not an excuse. It sounds like you dove right in, mucked about with a system you have no interest in and didn't bother to understand, and then never tested it.

     

    That is one of the rudest and honestly, just plain dumb things to say. You realize modders are not here to be perfect and make a mod that suits everyones needs for free. They do this out of the kindness of their hearts. And in no way did I jump into a system I had no interest in. You think because I made a mistake like ALL mods have at one point (why there is an option for version number), that I'm not interested in Skyrim? My mod was a learning experience. I used it to get better at modding in general so that next time I mod something, I will be better prepared. This is what many, MANY of the people in the modding community have done.

     

    It is YOU as a user to decide what mods to install. If a mod mucks up your system, that's on you. Yes the modder made the issue, but you didn't have to use the mod in the first place.

     

    EDIT: I don't have a problem with OP pointing out issues in anyone's mod. But the way he had delivered it on both mine and 101 Bugs wasn't in the best way.

    A Open Letter to Alchemy Modders

    in Skyrim LE

    Posted · Edited by Blitz54

    Alchemy ingredients in official content have standardized effect values for a reason. Use them. Think about how your ingredients affect the balance of the game ("Hey, is it really a good idea for me to make these fish power up enchanting nine times more than anything else in the game?") or whether they make sense at all ("Fortify Barter, magnitude 6, duration of... 0 seconds. Yep, that looks good."). Think about whether your arbitrary values are really necessary ("All ingredients in the base game have Slow at 50%, and the description of Slow is locked at 50%... Let's make this one 17%!"). Test your stuff ingame. Have some quality standards, for Talos' sake ("Should I maybe check what vanilla ingredients have for Paralysis duration? ...nah, let's make it 60.").

     

    And above all, please do not make ingredients with Fortify Alchemy. I swear, this is just... There's a reason there are no Fortify Alchemy potions or Fortify Enchanting enchantments in the game, people! The Fortify Restoration glitch and Fortify Alchemy/Fortify Enchanting loop were bad enough, you don't need to make them even worse!

     

    Sincerely, the guy who just spent about an hour patching two other people's mods because they were amazingly imbalanced, and is very frustrated right now.

    Yes, I have made errors in my mod. It's expected. This was my first ever project involving modelling, textures, scripting, and modding in general. Some things I did not know the issues of before. Example. I only used health potions, nothing else. So I never knew about the alchemy potion exploit until later.

     

    But if you're going to be so disappointed and angry at a modder for putting their time and effort to help make Skyrim better for others, then at least research everything yourself. "Target moves at <50>% speed for <dur> seconds." That is the description of slow. Yes, many of the alchemy ingredients use 50.00 magnitude. But not all vanilla ones do. Large Antlers use 5.00 at 30 seconds. When you make a potion using Large Antlers and any other ingredient using slow, it shows up at 50% for 32 seconds. BUT if you use it with my fish that has 17.00 mag, it stays at 50% but the time goes way up. Same if you make an exact duplicate of large antlers. It becomes 50% for 194 seconds. Way wrong. But this is in vanilla Skyrim. The large antlers should actually be fixed by the USKP team, but the fact is it broke the rules, so I assumed the rules could be bent as well.

     

    And although I do not have a 60 second paralysis in my mod, I don't see the issue. If you were paralyzed by any kind of poison in real life. You really think you would get back up in 5 seconds? Especially from a poison that paralyzes you instantly. In fact in MY opinion, all the paralysis potions and effects should be longer. Maybe slow the char down first, and then finally come to a stop.

     

    I will thank you for some of the issues though. Barter was an error. But again, first time modding so I messed up. I was worried more about the ingredient value equaling a nice number, that I totally forgot it needed a proper duration and Magnitude.

     

    Now that this is all cleared up, I'd be glad to try and fix any major issues you found within my mod. That is, if you are a bit more polite about it. :smile:

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