bilotheretard

omg this is going to be one of my favourite mods ever Re: the eating, I don't think there are any mods that currently play the animation while seated, so if you could do that it'd be brill.

No worries. And I might have gone overboard, cause I spent hours tweaking that haha. Yea. I just wanted to show you an extreme example. That drawing still has thighs that are a lot shorter, but the shins are not too far. I am ok with how it is now. Like I said the animations can't cope with too much change. And also it's quite close to morrowind's except those had humongous feet. Ugh I need to sleep. I'll send you the skeleton tomorrow. Don't worry you can do whatever you want it is completely seperate from the mesh. Edit: stupid phone autocorrect changed separate to desperate Sen it won't clip, the bones scale ANYTHING skinned to it. Texture stretching yea, but it looked fine to me. You can see for yourself later. I dunno, it may look fine standing, but if the shins are any shorter it looks really awkward in motion, kinda like a stump

I think you might have um, misunderstood every single thing I said. First of all, it's the same body. The only thing changed were the size of the bones in the skeleton. Everything scales accordingly, including any armour or clothing. Second of all, it doesn't take an anatomy expert to see that even now the shin is waaay too short, digitigrade legs have extremely short thighs, not shins. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bee0YyXyJ-4/T06F5vC7TmI/AAAAAAAAAy4/SRdGKcjwwk0/s1600/HumbirdlegCCS11.jpg But fine, sigh, hopefully our local anatomy expert will back me up on this. Thirdly, I don't have any trouble exporting stuff, I was talking about the original workflow I was going to use, in order to avoid gaps between the feet and shin. But let's not get into that anymore, just tell me what the plan is to remove the gaps. and lastly, can you please tell me what the heck is with the pointed behind, I asked if that was the result of cutting off my tail, but you never answered me.

That looks really lore-friendly. Skeleton tweak: Looks much more natural with shorter thighs and longer shins. I would like to go further but: a. it seems it can only be scaled uniformly so I really don't want to make the thighs too skinny. b. this is a far as I can take it without clipping while doing things like sitting down getting too bad. The upper body is also scaled down slightly to make it proportional to the smaller thighs so note to self: increase race size in ck by 1.01. http://i.snag.gy/IVB3G.jpg Do you know how to fix the gaps or do you want me to try and do it? It's not as easy as I first thought, because since the 0 and 1 bodies are already made, welding the legs then later breaking them could potentially upset the vertex numbering. My original plan while making it on my own was to make it seamless first(which I did) then create the _1 mesh by scaling it up equally at the joints. Obviously we can't do that now. So I dunno I think I'll try to weld and break and hopefully the vertex order stays the same.

and yeah I meant breaking it off again after that. In case you panic again about me joining things to the body

Looks good derok. The skinning especially is surprisingly good. Are you sure you replied completely only on copying it without any manual adjustments? Now I remember the other reason I wanted to tweak the skeleton though- it would look a lot more natural if the thighs were shortened and the shins lengthened, but it's not worth messing with the mesh and armour. The nice thing about skeleton changes is it readjusts anything skinned to that bone. Don't worry people have done this sort of stuff thousands of times, since morrowind. I just need to confirm how to do it right. I think I'll shoot xp32 or someone a pm. There seems to be a small gap more on the right foot, I don't know if it's due to the vertices not lining up, or skinning differences at the joint. Either way welding the feet to the body and/or reskinning the joint will make it seamless. What's up with the pointed backside? Did you use my edited body and cut the tail off, or is there some other reason for that?

Thanks, I'm hanging around the forums all the time because I'm supposed to be doing homework and I'm procrastinating mad. So this is the perfect opportunity for me to work on this before the deadline comes close and I really have to get serious haha.

It's a heavily modified CBBE. After the initial editing I had to line up the body to the feet, going polygon by polygon. Then I used the texture to Zproject sections of it onto the seam where the body meets the feet, to smooth it out. The main problem is the texture itself, keeping the strands of fur in line, rather than the topology. I can get it mostly hidden, but since it's fur, I suspect that the hardest part will be making the normal map congenial to the body's. One thing at a time, though. Sent the body with a slightly modified texture to Derok, and am awaiting his reply/criticism. Not sure how it'll turn out until I'm told, since my knowledge ends at shape and color. :confused: As usual though, Bilo, PM any questions or requests for information or files, and they'll be yours as soon as you want them and as fast as I can make them. Also, throwing my opinion in on the merged tail, I don't really care one way or another, but if merging the tails is to involve me at all, you must know three things. 1. The original UV map will be utterly destroyed. 2. The models must be repainted from either shoddy texture projection or from scratch. 3. It will increase the production time on the bodies, thanks to the often unreliable topology features of the Zspheres. But again, I don't care. Just inform me with what to sculpt/draw/edit/merge/create once (and if) some agreement is made. However, the way I see it... Feet > Tails/bodies. One thing at a time. And as for the rump, Furrywolf... what can know but time? Time rules all things. Mountains may turn to deserts, valleys to hills, a lovely round bum to a hag's sad sag. We shall see. :psyduck: Oh right, I thought you were talking about the mesh. Hmm I thought you'd be pretty good with that since you can paint across meshes in 3D. Blender 2.5 had some really good tools for 3d painting, but 2.49, not so much. Zbrush must have some nice tools since from what I remember, you texture entirely within it? While I was texturing Khajiit a long long time ago, in photoshop, I found that using the clone stamp tool at 80% opacity had satisfactory results. Sure it's a little less "HD Clarity", but it wasn't noticeable for me. So yea I admire what you're doing but if you can't, don't worry about the sharpness too much, it's a worthwhile tradeoff for blending more smoothly and it's only a small area. Yea the normal map might be a bigger problem, it should basically need to be rebaked if you don't want a small flat spot at the seams. I can do that but photoshop is not aware of where the seams are and will mess them up, so I'll then have to use Blender 2.49's(basic) tools to repaint the seams, but obviously it won't match up to the diffuse texture anymore. Buuuuuut I'm sure Zbrush should be very well equipped for this, I think one of it's primary purposes is baking normal maps from extremely high polygon detailed meshes. So like you could sculpt in every line of fur and transfer it to the normal map. About the bodies, that's fine. I didn't mean to say do it now, just before clothing and armour or they'll have to be redone.

Uh I never mentioned dinosaurs. Lots of animals don't have segmented butt cheeks, like fish, birds, snakes, amphibians, lizards, and Morrowind's argonians. I gave it some thought and although there should be no real effect if the tail was cut off further down a bit, the base transition area needs to be part of the body to avoid clipping. It's the only way- the armour needs to be skinned to it as it swings back and forth. Let me break this down for you since you didn't understand my post: Cloth is ductile, if there is some cloth around the tail and the tail swings- the cloth should move with it Steel (or whatever daedric is made out of) is hard- it would restrict the movement of the tail where the opening is, because an argonian's tail does not bend steel as it swings back and forth try and imagine putting your hand in a sock and opening you hand- it would deform, but if it was a steel sock nothing would happen. That's how bodies are skinned, and the base of the tail is the same.

What body texture did you use, was it Bethesda's? How I got rid of the seams and or abrupt transitions on the argonian leg was I welded it together with the body then smoothed joint and surrounding are before breaking it. I don't know how zbrush works but I can do it if you'd like.

Exactly, but if the tail is already part of the body you'll have two tails. That's why I said the solution was to remove the tail from the "tail armour" mesh. It should work if it doesn't clip badly. Or you could just do it the easy way and make it part of the cuirass.

Oh really, I'm curious as to what it's considered in the item menu. A cuirass? A hat? I'm aware of the tail biped slot, but I meant there isn't actually a item category for it, even greaves and cuirasses were merged. If it's considered a cuirass and you're allowed to stack it with another cuirass I guess it would be fine- if it wasn't for my next point, which is that the tail biped slot won't be used if when the tail becomes part of the body. However, I just thought of something that could work, providing the armour fits the tail perfectly. If you save ONLY the armour parts in the nif and leave out the actual tail mesh, if it lines up perfectly with the tail, and it is skinned correctly to avoid clipping, I think it should work, because luckily the tail is a relatively simple shape and shouldn't really deform. It wouldn't be possible on the body for example, because you need to skin it differently for soft armour, which allows it to move; vs hard armour which restricts movement.

That's a really bad idea. You might pretty much have to redo it from scratch. I don't even think a specific "tail armour" is possible, if there really is going to be any tail armour it'll most likely have to be specific to each cuirass instead.

@Drohung those are fairly common problems with setting up Blender. Try googling them or contacting Blender support. I can tell you you don't want the newest version though, I think it's 2.49b

Thanks I appreciate it. I'll get back to you regarding the skeletons. re: Bethesda artists, what you're talking about is not really related to technical workings of the game though, and anyway to each their own but I really like what vsions did for the beast races, working with what he could(shared body parts). Apparently beast legs were planned but there was no time. The "claws" actually don't look bad if you consider that they're more supposed to be like sharpened nails, but yes yours do look rather magnificent, good job. I see, so we still don't have someone who can skin %*-{. I suppose I should put myself to really learn it. The copy script works pretty well but did you move the vanilla body and elongate the feet to match yours? Oh well I guess as long as you're satisfied with the results. Yes I'm very interested to see what you've done. About the tail, I think merging it with the body is a very good thing. I think it would be a sorely missed opportunity if we didn't do it, since all the cuirasses need to be redone for the legs anyway. Personally that's the second biggest thing that bothers me, maybe not on the Khajiit since it looks quite natural with their small tails, but on Argonians it looks like a pole joined onto a butt, and clips through clothing back and forth. Argonians really shouldn't have butts at all. It does work and there's no need to tweak the animations. As you can see in my screenshots. Like I said in my previous post it's only the transition between the tail and the torso that skinning needs to be revised. Discovering that I can actually do that was one of the highlights of my working on the mod, because I wasn't even sure we can use the tail bone on the body mesh. I'm willing to handle everything with the tail if you'd rather not. Yeah, I missed morrowind where women could wear trousers and men could wear skirts. Sure yea, it's great that you know how to script as well btw. How about a script that just stops the player from equipping normal footwear (using the exact message from morrowind would be a nice touch), then we have the new beast specific armour that can be crafted or looted from beast npcs. Since there aren't many beast npcs I think it shouldn't be too hard to manually remove footwear from some and give some the new foot armour. Oh lastly, you haven't told me what you'd like me to do with the file page. Do you want to start a new one or shall put you as the author on the old one? Regards, Justine

Just read about the script. It's a good idea for the alpha version, but it shouldn't be necessary on release, as Skyrim already lets different races use different meshes unlike Oblivion. This was the whole origin of the mod and the esp(which was made through hex editing and fallout tools before the creation kit even came out!) already includes seperate "beast versions" of all open toed footwear. But obviously now they need to be seperated for both races and cover every single footwear. So definietly no scripting needed for cuirasses. However, I do personally support a Morrowind-style "beast races may not wear boots" script but I doubt the most of the public does, your call, it's nice easy and lazy though. Either way we can still make beast race specific footwear.

I've just jumped on this thread from Derok's message so I'm not fully following but it looking really impressive so far boys! I never would have imagined you'd have got this far when you first contacted me, before you knew how to use blender. Just goes to show you can do anything if you put your mind to it. I've been busy with homework and a bit of an acting career but I never fully abandoned this mod like I promised and I haven't played Skyrim since I started it(think I got as far as high hrothgar). I just recently renewed my enthusiasm by checking out other mods, and was ready to start the mod again before Derok contacted me(not that I've gotten my homework under any control) but this is really a relief that someone so capable has taken an interest, and I'm more than happy to take a backseat role, this is my final year to pass haha. I can reopen the mod and add you, or you can start another page and I'll take mine down if you'd like. I don't mind I'm was only doing this so I can play it not for glory or anything hah. It's good to see you Senviro. I don't think you have to do that do you. There's tons of skeleton mods that modify the proportions of body parts. All we need is to relocate the ankle and toe bones for much longer feet. I was in contact with a Bethesda artist(vsions) about it and he said that was a good plan, as they themselves used that as a quick fix method for the digitigrade vampire lord during gamejam. I needed to contact the authors of one of those mods to clarify how it actually works, because both the beastskeleton nif and the actual body mesh has the bones and I don't know if just one of them are important or ヾ(´･ ･｀｡)ノ” Have you skinned it? How do the animations look? Where I last left off I was stuck with polishing the skin weights as the toes distorted during certain angles. The tail was pretty good just needed some tweaks around the joint area to make it more smooth. I can give you the latest files I worked on, including the tweaked skeleton and roughly skinned mesh(not uv-mapped though) which isn't on the nexus page. But hey did you actually use my blend file at all? Or did you contact Senviro and work behind my back heh xD

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/images/6041-1-1353298116.jpg Anyway that's an -ish, at least we know everything's possible. I need someone good at skinning to help me touch it up, just around the tail transition and the feet. The feet are fine for most animations but turn into mush at certain frames while running and jumping. I really can't do anything because I have no idea how to improve it. PLS ANYONE Also does anyone know an easy way to make the heavy mesh? I would just use Bethesda's mesh but I can't cut and weld or the vertices will explode. Is there anyway to copy the shape for the top of the mesh without disrupting the vertex order?

http://static.skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/images/6041-2-1352540828.png http://static.skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/images/6041-1-1352540827.png Trying to get round to skinning it. The skeleton has no toe joint, so should I skin: the toes as the feet, the ankles as the calf(static) and the knee as the knee? the toes as the feet, the ankles as the knee and the knee as the thigh(static)? the toes as toes(static), the ankles as the ankles, the knee as the knee? If you've seen how the Mass Effect series does it, it's really ugly- they use the toes as feet, and the calf is a pretty much non-existent lump behind the knee. I was hoping to not go there. If anyone wants to try playing with it please let me know

I'm pretty sure everyone thought the same thing. For one, Snow White is not thought to wear armour. Anyway op, that's a pretty generic armour you shouldn't have trouble coubling a few things together. In fact it looks a lot like Oblivion iron armour I think.

What about the facial animation?

This is doing my head in- my armour meshes seem to work fine with most of the races BUT high elves, who probably think they're too good for it and give me and instant ctd. I really can't figure this out. Anyone have any clues? I also test my meshes by replacing the underwear mesh with it but I can't see that being responsible.

Those are just settings. Unless Boris himself posted in the comments?

No sheaths either

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