Harkonian

Not possible maybe. :(.

It always seemed odd to me that if I break into someone's home and the homeowner sees me they comment, "Oh, you shouldn't be in here." rather than just immediately attacking or calling the guards. Can someone point me in the right direction on how to use Creation Kit to modify homeowners' reactions to be more aggressive when encountering an intruder?

Creation kit is finally out. Let's get this done!

Sneak levels up very, very quickly. By the time my character reached level 9 I had a sneak skill of 40, which made the game absurdly easy. So, yes, stealthy play needs to be made much harder. In addition, if you don't want the improved stealth play, there is no requirement that you install the mod...

Well, almost any implementation would be better than the current one. He is right, what they should do instead.. is a progressive sweep of the entire area.. as intelligent people may do. You are a security guard, with a gun, and no phone to the police. You know somebody is on the premises, how do you go about ensuring they are gone? You perform a sweep, you check everywhere. If it is dark somewhere you use light. So bandits might use torches where zombies might just sweep the area and all the corners two or three times. Have them go anywhere that is open to travel. If the problem is behavioural, fix the behaviour not the time they perform it for.

Since version 1.2 patch is being release tomorrow, maybe Bethesda can finally focus on getting the creation kit released so mods like this can happen.

This idea is addressed in this mod request: http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?/topic/467158-take-the-stupid-out-of-the-ai/

Are there any cheap books that give you skill levels or quests/map locations? Just curious, because after a couple of hours of playing, I stopped reading the cheap books. I just look at the price -- any book that is worth more than 30 or so will increase your skill or be useful in some other way. I've never found anything useful in the cheap books. They are just filler, as far as I can tell.

There is room to discuss the amount of time NPCs should be alerted for. Even 15 minutes would make you very sorry you weren't more careful playing stealthily. But also, keep in mind that having the NPCs alerted for a long time does not prevent you from still attacking. It will just prevent you from getting all the stealthy perks, which I think is a reasonable penalty for being discovered. Then don't download the damn mod.

LOL...let's keep this on topic. Non-lethal kills and horse AI are great ideas for mods. But this thread is specifically regarding NPC detection and reaction in order to make stealthy play less hacky.

Do you have a link to that mod?

The mod and the tutorial are so full of win.

I think the point he was making is you should not get any warnings. If you are found inside a home, that person should immediately start attacking or at the very least call the guards. It does not defeat the purpose of being a sneak. If you are playing stealthily and you are breaking into a house while the owner is home (during the day?) or awake (not late enough at night?) then you are doing it wrong. For whatever reason -- bad luck or bad planning -- once you are caught the penalties should be dire.

Completely agree with this 1000%. It's already too effective at 50 points without adding sneak bonuses. I'm now @ 85 which is even more ridiculous. To offset this somewhat I've increased the combat difficulty and have purposefully _not_ used any of the sneak's"+ % sneak chance" perks. Although it does make things a bit more difficult, the real solution is to make sneak a bonus that mostly doesn't apply once combat begins. I like how splinter cell handles it, but something like this could possibly make this mod too complicated. I'm still not convinced that allowing sneak's 3x bow damage and 15x/30x dagger damage once NPCs have been alerted is a great idea. Essentially, a sneak has no penalties between mode #1 and mode #2. It might be worth it to consider some extra lesser damage in mode #2 though -- say 1.5x for bow and 7.5x/15x for dagger once alerted. That along with keeping alert states longer might work. And I'm not kidding when I say that once NPCs reach mode #3 I want it to be painfully long -- at least 10 real-life minutes -- before they drop back down to mode #2 and that mode would stay around for some minutes as well. The purpose here to to severely penalize someone playing stealthily who is seen -- whether by bad luck or poor planning. You won't be able to just run away, wait for the NPC mode to reset a few seconds later and retry.

Ah, good idea. Should have just used no clipping to check it out. I have to say, this is one of my favorite dungeons to date. Curious, did you find the secret chamber only accessible from a certain point? So far, the two walkthroughs I've seen didn't go to it.

If you stand in Geirmund's Hall at the point shown in the map below, you can hear a tapping in the walls -- as if someone or something is entombed behind them and trying to get out...does anyone know if this is significant, or is it just ambiance? http://i.imgur.com/bFDed.jpg

Maybe experienced modders can chime in if this sort of thing was doable in Oblivion? NPCs have three modes: Mode #1: Normal Mode #2: Alerted, but no enemy sighted, Mode #3: Enemy sighted In mode #2, you can still perform sneak attacks. However, your scenario would call for sneak attacks to work (sometimes?) from the back if the NPC is in mode #3. Essentially any attack from the back would have a chance of a sneak attack? Assuming this is doable, this could cause some unintended consequences. For example, shooting a dragon in the back as it does a strafing run over you could trigger a sneak attack -- which seems wrong, IMO. In addition, maneuvering behind NPCs during melee with a dagger could trigger a sneak attack as well, which also seems wrong. I think the mod as I originally suggested would force improved tactics for stealthy players because the penalty if you are actually seen -- having to wait 30 minutes before being able to approach the NPC group again -- is high. Your suggestion would dilute this quite a bit as well as introduce possible game-breaking changes.

There were some great suggestions in that post, but I didn't incorporate it into mine because it goes well beyond the scope of the intent of my mod suggestion. The additional behaviors ogridum wants would require actor voice-overs and way more complex AI programming. In addition, a path finding algorithm is one of the hardest computer science problems to get right -- which is why you still see issues with it in today's games, even though developers have been trying to nail it for the last 20+ years of gaming. In the interest of making the mod as achievable as possible, I'd like it to focus specifically on alert and detection behaviors. That actually seems like a great name for the mod: Alert and Detection Assistance Mod -- ADAM.

The A.I is so horribly bad right now, particularly if you are playing stealthily. Most encounters go something like this: *sneak up near NPC* *thunk!* put an arrow into the back of his head *hide* NPC looks around, "Huh? Who's there?" A few seconds later, NPC says, "Must have been my imagination." and walks away...with an arrow in his head. rinse and repeat until NPC is dead. So, I'd love to see a mod that does the following: If an NPC is injured, he will stay on alert for a long time, possibly until he completely heals or 10 minutes IRL time, whichever is longer If an NPC finds one of his companions dead, he goes on alert for a long time If an NPC goes on alert, he also alerts all nearby NPCs Once you are detected, the alert status will last even longer -- 30 minutes IRL. If there is any evidence of intruders -- even if the NPC was not alerted by a visual or injury -- they go on alert. For example, if you shoot an arrow and miss. If the NPC can see the arrow, they go on alert. Excessive noise or light will cause NPCs to go on alert Other sneak related A.I. stupidity not directly related to fighting, but which also needs to be fixed: If you are caught inside a room or house you broke into, the NPC should react stronger than saying, "Can't I get some privacy?" You just broke in! At the very least attack, or call some guards or something. Don't just ignore me while I wonder around. If you are playing stealthily and get caught inside a building you broke into, you are doing it wrong and there should be a penalty for that. Traps should kill you. Period. If you are quick enough to drink a potion or cast a heal spell before you are dead, fine. But otherwise, if you trigger a trap you should die. As it stands now, you can completely ignore traps. I have yet to have any trap bring me down to even 1/2 health, much less kill me. I thought the following suggestion/information was also good: