SwampyTroll

... You have a point, actually... This is a little unnerving.

Well, you cheeky bugger. :P Good job, though. I certainly didn't see it, and this is keeping relevancy in the thread.

If your argument is based around a single fact, you should probably get rid of any disbelief towards it, now shouldn't you? ;) Keep in mind, I've said it's speculation. That MEANS I might be wrong. Yes, this bloody CK situation is shitty. And I hope that I am wrong and that it is sunshine and ponies... Well, actually, I hope it tanks. I'd rather video game companies not get quite so involved with modding.

I want vine arrows, and flashbombs too. I try not to be a lore prostitute, but that seems a little lore-shattering, eh? ;) I really think Skyrim needs guns. It's been centuries since we've seen any SLIGHT improvement. C'mon, people! We're in a war! First person to make a gun is gonna be rich as hell.

Do not assume my opinion cannot be changed. There have been situations when I've been persuaded away from one side of an argument. Not everyone on the internet is an ass. I know it's not a Valve product. But I'm now starting to question the validity of your statements. If you really have been in the positions you say you were, then I'm sure you would be preaching to different people. Bethesda isn't able to make full decisions on Skyrim. Everything they want to release through Steam has to go through Valve, keep that in mind. Skyrim for PC is available through Steam only, anything else is piracy. Sure, you can buy the product through various means, but in the end, it's still through Steam. Now, why do you keep reminding me that Skyrim is not a Valve product? I'm aware that it's not. If it was, there'd be a Valve logo on it. Part of the revenue is going to Valve, though. Bethesda is NOT directly distributing the games. I know I have no "real hard data" as you put it. I already said it's speculation. But after observing past actions, I was able to think up a very likely outcome. Now, I do see you throwing around your "experience" a lot. Be specific, what exactly did you do? You've been a little vague.

You are a beautiful individual.

I didn't know Harry Potter was the Dovahkiin. :biggrin:

This isn't Bethesda, though. This is Valve. We're using Valve examples in a Valve situation. The CK was announced, then the Workshop. What do you honestly think is going to happen? Forget throwing down everyone else. I want to know what you think the outcome will be. I have a rather unique and somewhat educated view because I have worked in the industry for over 25 years (last 12 in middle and executive management with a Sony company) . What I think is this: There is too little data to make guesses. Bethesda is the property owner and developer, and Valve is only a service provider contracted to distribute and/or handle DRM for select Bethesda products, including the Steam Workshop. Valve can not dictate terms of service for properties they do not own, they can only dictate terms for the service they provide and how the end user consumes the services they provide. They can not claim ownership or require an end user to grant them any exclusive or non-exclusive rights to any derivative works that are by definition owned by the IP owner (Bethesda in this case) just because that end user uses the service contracted by said IP owner. I've spent enough hours with corporate attorneys over the last 10 years going over contracts and proposals to know that what most of the speculators are saying is just uneducated rhetoric. Obviously there are possibilities that Bethesda and Steam could come to any kind of agreement if it suites the needs of both business partners. However, Bethesda does not have a history of behavior that warrant a lot of the wild speculation that is happening. It is foolish to assume the terms for a product that Valve owns will be applied to a product they do not own. The data we do have is this; Bethesda stated in public communications that the service will be free of charge, Steam will not be requiring anyone to pay for any user uploaded mods through the use of the toolset that Bethesda will release through Steam as a host and DRM. I'll stop here because there are a myriad of things that could happen, however unlikely they may be. What I say here is from my POV influenced by my professional experience in the industry. YMMV :thumbsup: Well while I completely disagree with your conclusion, I'm glad you at least answered the challenge in a civilized manner. Now, you are aware of how things are going to work, right? Are we making speculation? Yeah. But I'm sure you know what an educated guess is. Valve does this kind of thing all the time. And it's not like Bethesda can really do much about Valve. That's the only way people can buy the PC version of Skyrim. So ultimately, we're looking at Valve, waiting for their move. It doesn't take a genius to be able to predict what Valve will do. They'll do what they've always done; squeeze the game until they're wrung out all the money possible. And something tells me that Valve's not gonna grow a heart and make this a sugar-coated wonderland. They will do everything they can to make money off of this. Now, is Steam Workshop really that big of a deal? No. But I still get the same gut-wrenching feeling in my stomach that I did when it first came out. A video game company actually had the balls to try to pull money in from modding. Maybe you're not quite so appalled because you're used to game companies doing shitty things. That's fine. But there is a reason for all this frustration. It's like with the release of Rage... Quality is going down the drain and being replaced with the next money scheme. Edit: Small spelling issue...Compulsive behavior kicked in.

Well, there's really only two mechanisms on a flintlock... Pulling back the flint, pulling the trigger. I'm sure the Dovahkiin can figure it out. ;)

You aren't wrong. But since when has Steam ever decided to do things for the users instead of profit..? This isn't Bethesda, though. This is Valve. We're using Valve examples in a Valve situation. The CK was announced, then the Workshop. What do you honestly think is going to happen? Forget throwing down everyone else. I want to know what you think the outcome will be.

Even if it seems hopeless, don't trash the musket. Ultimately, it comes down to what people are willing to do. Skyrim has a bigger user base than Oblivion already. I'm sure we gained a few talented minds here and there.

Why would it ruin the feel? We're not talking semi-automated weapons. If we are to expect Bethesda to keep going along the timeline, then there needs to be some kind of brainstorming among the masses. Someone eventually is going to make a firearm. Why not now? Why not set this moment as the moment people move forward? I think it's the perfect time, actually. Skyrim's facing a war and is being overrun by dragons.

Well, you're right in that aspect. Maybe I should reword my statement... I doubt they'll change the conditions required in submitting mods. I see this as an avoidable issue so long as we use the Nexus. But what scares me is that a game company has the audacity to do something like this. Edit: Whoops, meant avoidable.

No, it's not copyrighted under you. That's the thing, you forfeit ownership. It becomes royalty-free. That's the terms for using the Workshop. Here, I'll give you a direct quote: "You grant to Valve a worldwide, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, assignable right and license to (a) use, copy, distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, modify, and create derivative works from Your Contribution in any media, (b) identify you as the source of the Contribution, and © sublicense these rights, to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law."

I'm sure you could. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible in the first place.