ripple

Gods, I wish I could find the very first person who started this misinformation and take their computer away from them. This is one of those enduring Skyrim modding myths that just refuses to die after all these years, no matter how much we try to dispel and quash it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, plugin cleaning, when done correctly, will not break mods. It will, however, prevent "bugs" and issues resulting from duplicate to master entries overriding changes from other mods, and most importantly, potential instability triggered by mods calling references deleted by plugins earlier in the load order. There is never a reason to keep UDR records in a mod. The Bashed Patch will not fix your random CTDs. It will, however, merge conflicting level list records from mods you are using, so they will work as intended.

No load order management tool is perfect. Just like BOSS, LOOT is not "always right", but "mostly right." However, anyone who wants to manually manage their load order would ideally need to be able to interpret plugin records in TES5Edit, so they can check plugins to see if any manual adjustments need to be made via setting custom rules in LOOT (or the BOSS Userlist Manager, if using BOSS). Load order are optimized on the basis of conflicting records. Conflicting records of plugins loaded later in the load order will override those from plugins loaded earlier in the load order. If you can manually make your own custom compatibility patches using TES5Edit, then load order matters less.

No idea. Did you make any edits to the game ini files? After making those saves? Does this happen even if you make a new save after starting a game now?

1) The LOOT log indicates a number of plugins required cleaning. 2) You'll need a Bashed Patch, as the LOOT log indicates several plugins in your load order has been Bash Tagged and contain things like conflicting level lists that require merging via a Bashed Patch. 3) CTD on loading after character death is a common issue with heavily modded load orders. It may be better that the game CTDs than allow the player to continue to play and create corrupt saves.

1) Cleaning (when done correctly) does not "cause CTDs." If the author has stated that an "dirty edits" should not be cleaned, the LOOT log will indicate that. In fact, even when a mod author indicates a mod's identical to master entries are intentional, there is still no way to "break" the mod by cleaning it. Moreover, there is never any reason to have deleted references (this can cause instability). Deleted references should always be undeleted and set to disabled, via cleaning. 2) You should download and install the official patches. 3) You will also need a Bashed Patch. As indicated by the LOOT log, several plugins in your load order have been bash tagged, containing things like conflicting level list edits that need to be merged via a Bashed Patch.

Post your complete BOSS log or LOOT report (with all messages enabled), whichever you are using to manage your load order.

1) As bben said, you haven't really provided any details about your CTDs. Are they random, persistent, reproducible/not reproducible? Where and what was your character doing? More details will help. 2) Go through your LOOT log and address the "error messages" and advises. For example: You have the DLCs, so you should use the unofficial patches for the DLCs. 3) Uninstall this mod: Killable Children - Quest Important Protected.espUse this mod instead: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/13202/? It doesn't cause child actors to stretch in size (for using adult furniture) and quest related child NPCs are flagged as essential until their related quests are completed.

I have been manually downloading the Mods to the Data folders.This is the first problem. Most users should be using a mod manager to handle mod un/installation. This is to ensure mod resources will be fully uninstalled when you need to uninstall a mod (sometimes necessary to update a mod), and that mods that package their resources as loose files will not be left behind as orphan files (particularly important for loose scripts). NMM, the Mod Organizer, and Wrye Bash are all solid mod managers, the Steam Workshop is not a mod manager, even though it pretends to be one. NMM is reliable and simple to use, MO is the most powerful mod management tool of the three but comes with a steep learning curve. I recommend a complete clean install of the game and then installing mods only using one of the three mod managers mentioned above. The second thing you will need is a load order management tool. You will need this, it is not optional. You can use either LOOT (currently the most popular one, and basically handles all of your load order management needs without having to micromanage things) or BOSS (no longer receives regular updates, but I still use it because it gives the users greater control--I like to micromanage). Pick one, learn it (should be a Gopher video tutorial on YouTube). The third thing you will need is TES5Edit. You will need this, it is not optional. When you run LOOT or BOSS, it will automatically arrange your load order in a way that best optimize your selection of mods, but it will also generate a report for you. The report will indicate if any of the mods contain "dirty edits" that need to be cleaned using TES5Edit, along with a link to a webpage containing video and written instructions on how to use TES5Edit to clean mods containing "dirty edits." The fourth thing you will need is Wrye Bash. This may be optional depending on what mods you are using. Wrye Bash is primarily used by most users to generate a Bashed Patch, which will merge some conflicting mod plugin records. Without a LOOT or BOSS log, I cannot say for certain if you need it, but I wager at least a few of the mods in your load order contain conflicting level lists that need to be merged. If you were using, say, 3 mods, you might be able to dispense with all these tools. But since you are diving into building (what looks to be) a sizable modded setup, I advise spending some time to learn the "tools of the trade" necessary to maintain a clean and reasonably stable modded game.

Your LOOT log indicates several plugins contain "dirty edits" and need to be cleaned. Although I doubt they are the cause of your random CTDs, they should be cleaned regardless. Also, you seem to be missing a Bashed Patch.

You still need to clean unintentional "dirty edits" from mods. Whoever told you that you don't....just became less "reliable" as a source of knowledge for load order maintenance. You should be able to view a generated report in LOOT that tells you if any plugins need cleaning.

LOOT is fine. In fact, you should probably use LOOT. BOSS is more for old schoolers who want more control over their load order arrangement. Anyway, as suspected, you are experiencing the CTD at the logo screen when loading because you are using the "Unofficial High Resolution Patch", but you do not actually have the Hi-Res DLC plugins in your load order, which the patch is dependent on. So you need to either install the official Hi-Res DLC, or uninstall the patch for it.

Copy/paste your complete BOSS or LOOT log here, enclose it in a set of spoiler tags so it won't clutter the screen.

No, it won't. Just make sure you follow the instructions on the page closely. Clean each flagged plugin only once (no repeat cleanings) and remove identical to master entries as well as undelete/disable deleted references.

1) Download TES5Edit if you haven't already. Follow the link in the BOSS log, which will take you to a page with instructions on how to use TES5Edit to clean the plugins that have been marked as containing "dirty edits." You will need to remove identical to master entries as well as undelete/disable deleted references. Clean only the plugins that the BOSS log has advised you to clean (including the official DLCs and the patch/update esm). 2) Get Wrye Bash and generate a Bashed Patch. As indicated by your BOSS log, there are a number of plugins with Bash Tags (for level list edits), so you will need to make a Bashed Patch to merge those conflicting level list edits. 3) Consider upgrading to SKSE 1.7.2 (beta). It may be beta, but it's stable. 4) You'll need to do something about those unrecognized plugins. Right now they are loading at the bottom of the load order and overriding any conflicting records from plugins loaded earlier in the load order. Typically, most users now days switch to LOOT to manage their load orders. Unfortunately, LOOT does not provide as much log information for load order troubleshooting purposes. So if not switching to LOOT, then I advise either using TES5Edit to see if those unrecognized plugins contain any conflicting records with other mods in your load order (also check them to see if they contain "error records"--right click on the plugin in TES5Edit, select "check error"), or uninstall those mods. 5) Random CTDs are difficult to track without a pattern. Locational proximity may just be a coincidence (or could be a clue). Right now, it could be any number of things that triggers the random CTDs...it *might* be some modification to that zone in the worldspace (although if you didn't CTD there before, it doesn't seem likely), or it could be something added by a mod that is being rendered when you enter the zone (NPC, a piece of armour, even a custom mesh of an object). So start writing down details about each of your CTD from this point forward--when/where/what you are doing (in combat, casting a spell, riding, etc). The details may reveal a repeating pattern that will unveil clues as to what might be causing the CTDs. Hmmm....I remember getting a persistent CTD near Riften many, many months ago, and tracked it to "Race Menu." Apparently, it had to do with this file: nioverride.dll. If all else fails, temporarily remove that file from your SKSE plugin folder. See if that is the culprit.

You can select the option to output a BOSS log either in HTML or text format. Copy/paste the entire content of that log here (including the SKSE version information), then enclose the log in a set of spoiler tags (because it will be big) so it won't clutter the screen. Also, provide the other requested information. Also, include the list of plugins not recognized by BOSS.

If you suspect it's the spell, not something related to Whiterun, the obvious way to confirm it is to fast travel to another location and try the spell there. The Papyrus log is not a "crash log", and will not tell you why you CTDed. You'll need to do some experimenting in game to narrow down the possible causes to make it easier to track down the issue.

1) Replace your plugin list with a complete BOSS or LOOT log (messages about "dirty edits", etc). Enclose it in a set of spoiler tags so it won't clutter the screen. 2) List all mods you have installed which do not come with plugins, such as texture or body replacers. 3) Your system specs. 4) Have you made any edits to the game ini files? If so, copy/paste the contents here (and enclose in a set of spoiler tags) 5) Do you have Wrye Bash? If so, why no Bashed Patch (this is not related to CTDs)?

Thanks for this. I am starting to compile my price comparison list now.

What was the last thing you did before you started to experience the CTDs at logo screen? Did you edit a plugin in TES5Edit, per chance? Did you rebuild your compatibility patches?

It's not an issue of "missing masters." If it was, you would CTD at the logo screen, before you can even get into the game, so we can scratch that off the list. Also, SafetyLoad is outdated. You should be using SKSE's memory patch function instead. If you still have BOSS, installed, I'd like to see the complete BOSS log (including the SKSE version info, bash tags, error messages, and mods not recognized by BOSS). Copy/paste it here and enclose it in a set of spoiler tags so it won't clutter the screen. Have you made any tweaks and edits to the game ini files?

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That depends on whether you downloaded the mods manually or through a mod manager, and where you downloaded those mods from (Steam, Nexus, elsewhere).

I am looking to build a new PC in the next month or so, and I am soliciting recommendations for components. This is going to be a all-purpose gaming PC, with strong emphasis on durability and longevity. As a frame of reference, my current gaming PC is 5-6 years old, only upgraded RAM and GPU, still runs most games nicely. Due to past experiences (been at this for a some decades now), my preference for manufacturers and brands are highly particular. 1) Mobo - looking only for ASUS motherboards. - how much total RAM would safely carry me for the next 5 years of gaming? I can always add more RAM pending mobo support. 2) RAM - brands do not matter as much. I'll probably just buy the cheapest reliable brand from my local small PC stores. I do need some specifications. 3) CPU - Only interested in Intel. I7? I5? 4) GPU - only nVidia, no AMD (sorry AMD enthusiasts, but AMD driver support is just horrid) 5) PSU - I always hated calculating just how much I need. I currently have a 600W OCZ PSU. 6) May get an SSD just to install my OS on. 7) May look into getting a mid-tower, that provides good air flow and easy installation of components. My current mid-tower is cool, but it's sort of falling apart. 7) extra expenses for a stroage HDD, RAM sticks. Thanks.

You should download Wrye Bash and TES4Edit, beause they are essential tools for maintaining modded setups. 1) Either of them will tell you which plugin in your load order is missing a master, so you can either remove that plugin, or download the mod that contains the master plugin you need. 2) After that, you should make a Bashed Patch using Wrye Bash, and you will need TES4Edit to clean plugins when advised by LOOT to do so. So basically, I advise you to download those utilities now and watch some videos to familiarize yourself with how to use them.

CTD at the logo screen is a classic symptom of mod dependency issues. It's likely that one of the CoT plugin you are using is dependent on another plugin as a master, but that master plugin is missing from your load order. You can use Wrye Bash or TES4Edit to see which CoT plugin is missing a (or more) master, and the file name of that master plugin.