I. Introduction Hello. Who am I and what do I have to say to you? http://lh5.ggpht.com/_T4yxNEL7_K4/TLJXBi1Mh2I/AAAAAAAAAos/qsqjCvM4g10/thief%20box%20cover.jpg Let's start with Skyrim: they say it's THE game of the year. In the following paragraphs, you may find me bitching about the imperfections of Skyrim (especially when it comes to the thieving skills). But to tell the truth, Skyrim may as well be MY game of the year - I just want to make the game better. About my subjective experience with Skyrim's gameplay: this game is basically a simulator of tomb raiding and house breaking. It's a thieving game. On the other hand, warrior player builds are, at its best, just mediocre and mages are plain pathetic. Both of these are rather uninteresting. The focus is on thievery. And I wish for a significantly improved, more challenging and realistic thievery gameplay. It's obvious the game was designed to be playable and enjoyable even by some of those, *cough*, console half-wits, *cough*, which comes with a great price for the rest of us: it simplifies the gameplay too much. So, who exactly am I to preach about better thieving skills? Well, I do have the experience ... A) Having played a lot of other thieving games (Thief series, Splinter Cell series, Deus Ex series, Two Worlds series, Hitman series ... and who knows what else) B) Having tried a lot of those "thieving skills" in real life - sneaking up on people, lying my way out of things, pickpocketing them, lockpicking locks, climbing ropes and walls ... C) Having participated in game design - from Unreal Engine based mods to pen-and-paper D&D-like designs. So i understand what it means to assemble some sort of working game mechanics. However, I'm not a programmer - therefore, i can't do this thievery overhaul alone. But I sincerely hope to find someone who can implement the specific changes (once the CK gets released ...) Now on to the actual suggested changes ... II. Execution General tweaks and ideas Set timescale to 5 (or less). Currently, Skyrim's timescale is set to 20 (meaning that in one real minute, 20 in-game minutes passes (i.e. one in-game minute is set to last 3 seconds)). This time change rate is understandable for a generic character (to see some change and variety in the environment while playing), but it is too badand hectic for thieves, because thieves thrive in the night. Let's assume that the darkness remains for 12 in-game hours - that is 720 in-game minutes, i.e. 36 real minutes. 36 minutes is not much of a time, if you wish to use the darkness to hide yourself from those undesirable during a big "job" - for example the meadery quest for the thieves guild (it was already dawning when I finished sweeping the building. WTF is that?) "Unlock" the game - allow skill increases above the 100 cap (since any able thief can get their sneak skill to 100 in no time). I know, there's the Elys uncapper (http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1175), but I'd like to wait, until someone interconnects that mod with a functional "more perks" mod (there's the Caos Advanced Perks mod - http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3717 - but that one is actually broken). Penalize the crimes committed during the night. Nighttime is the time of crime, and crime should be discouraged by the local authorities. I suggest multiplying all the crimes penalties by two, when comitted during nightime - from about 10PM to 6AM ... (i.e. an assault for 80 gold pieces (2x40), a murder for 2000 gold pieces (2x1000), etc.) Add treasuries, vaults (interiors). In the vanilla game, there are no real treasuries! The Jarls of the regions should be loaded with money (commerce money, tax payer's money, etc.) and flattered with various gifts from the people all of the time (all sorts of things, ranging from golden statues to expensive equipment). Robbing a vault filled with riches should prove to be the ultimate challenge for an experienced thief. Some of the rich citizens may have their own vaults, too. Add some random NPCs (mainly) to the towns - travelers, merchants, beggars, thugs, commoners, etc. This would create generally more opportunities for pickpocketing and backstabbing. It could also boost the atmosphere - Solitude, for example, which is the capital of all Skyrim, seems so dead and unpopulated sometimes. Add more filthy places to the game! I'm a dirty thief and I'd just love to obtain a big, filthy, disgusting housing of my own - a personal retreat to store all of my loot, preferably somewhere in the sewers, filled with spider webs, piles of stolen ale, rotten beer kegs and skeevers (note: i know there's the Thieves guild, but that area just doesn't feel personal). In this regard, the five houses available in the game are all just waaaaay too small, boringly clean (after "upgrading") and noticeable - this just doesn't cut it for a shadowy thief. I'd like a dark, creepy place - like the possibility of buying my own crypt (with the previous occupant being a mad, demon-summoning, virgin-sacrificing cultist ... and me not even knowing that (an idea for a quest there, maybe?)). When I'm talking about the need of adding more filthy places, it generally doesn't have to stop with just houses. Oblivion had a nice, filthy sewer system under the city (one could even use the sewers to break into certain houses there), and back in the day, there was a "Suran Underworld" mod for Morrowind, which, basically, created a whole black market under a city. As far as Skyrim goes, big cities like Solitude, Whiterun or Markarth could surely be expanded with some of this filth. Another thing, the Thieves guild is nice, but with all the tombs out there, i've been thinking specifically about a "Gravediggers guild" mod, for some of the more sinister characters out there. Sneaking, enemy AI Let me mainly whine about the all-imperfect AI of the enemies searching for a sneaking character here ... The AI of the enemies does not *really* search for the character. I.e. when I'm concealed within the shadows and I sneak attack and enemy with my bow, the enemy goes EXACTLY to the spot from where i fired the arrow, trying to find me there. I may be hidden just a few feet away, but the enemy doesn't search further. An improved AI should search for the trespasser in the general direction from where the trespasser emerged, BUT the AI should move further, looking into a lot of shady corners in there (where the trespasser might as well be hiding). The "cooldown" times after spotting the trespasser should be higher, and randomized. I.e. the enemy might be searching for the intruder for anywhere in between 60 seconds to 180 seconds (just an example). An enemy that was sneak-attacked before and lives should not stop searching for the trespasser at all. "I guess he must have gotten away" with an arrow in your back just seems so unrealistic (it would be much better, if a sneak-attacked enemy who didn't spot the trespasser started searching around in frenzy). The enemies should use some intelligence while searching for the trespasser. I.e. they should light a torch while searching for a thief, who was almost spotted for the second (or further) time and/or who sneak-attacked someone. A random torch for every second or third cave/dungeon bandit should bring up some interesting gameplaychallenge. It would also be nice to add the ability for the player to stick to the walls (a 20% sneak bonus for that, perhaps?) Though in this case, it's just wishful thinking, I'm afraid - since in this game, there are no walls, just 3D models and colission models (sounds like a diffcult implementation of such a feature). Add a blackjack (!) - a sturdy club that knocks out anyone (it doesn't kill the target, though; and when found by some of the other antagonists, the knocked-out character can be brought back to consciousness). I believe a weapon like a blackjack would require some intense scripting, though. Add a possibility for sneak gameplay using two-handed weapons - I'm thinking about a "Shadow slayer" perk, that increases the sneak attack multiplier of two handed weapons to, say, 4x. As far as sneaking itself (and detectability) goes, the difficulty of sneaking should be altered by the "difficulty" of the floor and some of the world objects. I.e. sneaking on a lush grass should be, say, 50% easier regarding the sound, as the grass serves as a natural sound supressor. Sneaking on a rock surface (or just the cave insides) should be considered a "normal challenge". The most challenging surfaces (50% harder?) should be metals and creaky wood blocks. I also noticed that sneaking while all leveled up in this discipline seems too easy (no more a challenge, duh!). Therefore, how about an increased detection in the lit areas? It would be nice, if a sneaking player were actually able to throw noisy objects such as bottles around (a new "throw" key, above the possibilities of the current "pick up an item and push it" key), to distract the guards/ enemies. Lighting I want 1-st person self-shadow! Now! Torches, lanterns and other unusual lights should also cast self-shadows (immersion-wise, it would be nice). Also, i suggest equippable lanterns, just like torches. To spark up the sneaking experience a bit, how about editing the variety of light reach and gradients of certain lights? On a similar note, let me just mention the Realistic Lighting mod: http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4323 And the most significant feature of lighting to add is: the ability to put out or light back up the light sources (i.e. to turn of the lights on and off). Also, restrict this to certain types of lights (possible for candles, impossible for lanterns and other closed light sources (not to make the sneaking experience all too easy)). The player should be able to achieve this either by (de)activating the light directly, just like any other in-game object, or by using a water arrow / fire arrow (mentioned in the next sub-chapter, regarding archery). Archery Ever played one of the Thief games? The game included a variety of special-purpose arrows - water arrows (served great to put out torches from a distance) fire arrows (to do otherwise or light the guards on fire), noisemaker arrows (to draw the attention of the guards in a desired place) and moss arrows (to "silence" a small portion of the surface from movement sounds). There is the "Thieves arsenal" mod for Oblivion, just so you know what I'm talking about - http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9655 Sidenote: me want other, enchanteable arrows as well (frost, shock, paralysis - arrows for the purpose of increased dagmage output and/or trickery). Archery also *needs* area location damage - i.e. a shot in the head should be considered a head-shot and be almost always lethal (for victims who are not wearing any head protection, at least), a shot in the legs may slow down the overall movement speed of the enemy, and a shot into an arm may decrease their combat ability (one handed, two handed, etc.) I want crossbows! Slower to reload but significantly more lethal, they should provide an interesting alternative to bows. Throwing daggers and/or shurinkens also seem to be viable options to consider in this regard. Stealing in general The current in-game mechanic of surrendering all of the stolen goods upon arrest is plain retarded. The arresting guards just do not have some "general database of stolen items" at hand while arresting a thief. It would also be waaaaay too unrealistic, if the guards cared about every stolen apple and put so much effort into returning it to the right owner. Likewise, the victims of a theft may not even notice that some insignificant items are missing from their person and/or from their homes (or they just may not bother reporting to the guards that such an insignificant item went missing). On the other hand, the more expensive an item is, the more probable it is for the victim to report that the item went missing AND the more probable it is for the item to catch the guards attention, once found among the items of an arrested thief. Suggestion: to replace the current surrender-all stolen goods mechanic with a probability function (to surrender the items that catch attention). I suggest a logarithmic value curve - item of value 10 - 10% probability to identify as stolen, item value 1000+ - 100% (making this value a probability cap). It could also come in handy to implement the speech skill into this equation: i.e. something like 1.1 (base value) minus (speech /100) multiplied by the aforementioned probability. Example 1: item value 1000, speech 30: 1.1 - 0.3 * 100 = 0.8 * 100 = 80% probability of identifying the stolen item. Example 2: item value 1000, speech 60: 1.1 - 0.6 * 100 = 0.5 * 100 = 50% probability of identifying the stolen item. Example 3: item value 1000, speech 100: 1.1 - 1 * 100 = 0.9 * 100 = 10% probability of identifying the stolen item. To wrap things up with this new suggested stolen items mechanics, the player may as well try to sell some of the stolen goods to a common (non-fence) trader. Based on a speech check and the overal item value (similarly as above), the player may: Succeed - sell the item to the merchant. Fail mildly - the merchant refuses to buy the thing. Fail horribly - the merchant calls guards on the player. Pickpocketing The in-game pickpocketing mechanics also seem to (mal)function in strange ways. As an example, if i sneak up on a bandit and steal some of his items, the pickpocketed items are flagged as stolen. However, if i don't pickpocket the bandit and slit his throat instead, i can then go straight to looting the bandit's cold, dead body - taking all the bandit's items legally (without the items being flagged as stolen). WTF? - the bandit is a murderous criminal, and even if that is so, he's being legally protected from pickpockets? Riiiiight. Pickpocketing difficulty should be varied depending on what is the target doing. I.e. pickpocketing from a sleeping character should be a child's play (definitely easier than it's now); pickpocketing from sitting character should be kept at the "standard" difficulty, pickpocketing from a standing character may increase the diffculty a bit (20%) and lastly, stealing from a walking character is always A LOT more difficult (50% more, mayhaps?) Pickpocketing freezes time. Well, this is odd. To maintain realism, I'd at least suggest only being able to pick one item per steal, since picking more items requires the thief to move his hands back and forth (into the the pockets of the victim, and then back into his own loot bag). Currently, pickpocketing difficulty (and thus leveling from pickpocketing as well) is being computed based on the item's value. WTF? Pickpocketing difficulty should be computed based on the item's weight instead (an overpriced ring doesn't burden its owner; a sword or a bow does). Exceptions should be made for the weight-less items, though (gold, arrows, etc.) Lockpicking This is the most ridiculous skill implementation of them all (really, really needs to be redone). Currently, lockpicking is based on two principles: 1) to find the "sweet spot" within the 180 degrees the lock while 2) not breaking all the picks. Both of these principles are astonishingly stupid. Why is that so? Because in standard (cylinder) locks, there is no "sweet spot" in some supposed 180 degrees of an area; picks also don't just break so easily (just search some lockpicking videos on youtube to get an idea what proper lockpicking looks like). Here are a few more examples of better and/or more interesting and/or more challenging implementations of lockpicking: Oblivion (this is actually very close to the real thing): ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ussHjbGsfQ Two Worlds 2: ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6qBapqp62Q Thief 3 (lockpicking shown at 7:30): ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yxoEr5qeEk (in the last 3 links, replace "ttp" with "http" to get the address - I crippled the links because this forum wont allow me to post the addresses straight up, meh) Therefore, i'd suggest thinking about redoing the whole lockpicking minigame into something more interesting. Skyrim lockpicking should not, at the very least, freeze time - since this opens up the possibility of being caught by a guard while in the middle of lockpicking. This increases the challenge a bit and makes a good use of those invisibility spells/potions. Even a master thief can, realistically, spend some 10-30 seconds attempting to open just an average lock. In this regard, the perk from the lockpicking tree that allows "undetected" lockpicking should be abandoned or at least replaced with a "slow time while lockpingking" perk. Wait, there's more to it! Another WTF moment - being able to lockpick the lock from afar. Imagine a ten feet long fence, that has the lock positioned in the middle of it (there are these, among the dwemer-themed objects). Currently, the player can activate the farthest edge of such a fence from afar of his reach - if the player is actually five feet away from the edge of the fence, and the edge of the fence is another five feet away from the actual lock in the middle of it, the player is lockpicking a lock from ten feet away. In this case, such a player must be some weird, nimble telekinetic. WTF indeed! The player should be able to lockpick the lock only when directly facing the lock. Smithing and alchemy How about involving these two skills a bit? Smithing: forge traps! From the classic bear traps to a whole new set of other traps (i'll leave that one to the invention of other modders). Alchemy: imbue the traps with various effect (i.e. gas traps). Also, add flash bombs (i.e. http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Flash_Bomb), gas bombs, etc. Sidenote: the player should also be able to grab the existing bear traps and carry them with him, for further malicious use. III. Closing thoughts I know that there are some mods out there (even now, in the pre-CK era) that deal with some of the suggested parts of the overhaul, but in the end, it would be really handy to have all this as a single, complete mod. Go ahead and feel free to discuss any of the aforementioned suggestions (they are, in no way whatsoever, final). Based on your feedback, I may as well add/remove/edit some of the suggestions in this post. And good luck with your stealing, you taffers!
