Gopher

And how did you manage to get shot by a wimp like Benny and some Khans in the first place? I mean if you were a level 1 wimp yourself, it makes sense, but apparantly you are this awe inspiring badass courier who wandered the divide and went places entire battalions feared to tread. And yet a schmoe like Benny gets the drop on you? No, sorry, just not buying it. Benny and his goons would never have gotten the drop on such a character, and would have died if they had tried. Sorry, it just does not run. It is yet another major flaw in the main story of the courier. This reminds me of a bad 'thriller' that ends and has me asking five thousand question starting with the words 'wait a minute, that doesn't make any sense ...'. They need to go back to a classic fallout story for the next game. Keep it simple. You are level 1 and dont know dick about the world because you grew up in an isolated vault/village and give the character a history, with friends and family, and then give him a simple but believable reason for leaving. And for gods sake dont add things in the game that require you main character to be a grade A moron to actually progress the main quest. No more Bathesda special starts please. Give me a classic fallout start any time.

Yes it is, an no I do not think there is anything wrong with this. They are responding to what the customers seem to want, and where better to get your ideas than the mods people download? Fallout New Vegas owes most of the 'new features' that FO3 did not have from mods they basically ripped off. Hardcore mode? Weapons mods? And crap loads more. The reason we love Bathesda is the open nature of the game where they give us unparalleled support for modding. They in turn benefit from this as they dont have to fix half the bugs or release new content to keep their game sales up. And yeah, they on occasion package some of our ideas as their own and sell em right back at us :) Cheeky? Maybe. But seeing as I probably have over 2000 hours played on their last 4 games and spent less than 200 dollars on all four, I feel I am some what ahead on the deal.

This brings up another problem I have: If the courier was such a tough badass before the Goodsprings incident, why was he such a complete wuss at the start of the game? One bullet to the head and he lost all his skills, specials and perks along with all his memories? And even worse, how did Benny and some wimpy Khans take out the badass courier? I mean the way Ulysses talks about you, you must have been a lvl 30+ mean machine back them. And I took benny and khans out at lvl 8 without breaking a sweat. The whole story sort of falls apart the more you look at it. See at least the innocent vault dweller character in Fallout 1 and 3, and the innocent tribal in Fallout 2 had perfectly good excuses for being total wimps at the start and posessing no knowledge of the world.

Could be worse, we could be arguing over hats :) I suppose, but its silly to get angry at Obsidian for making you shoot a nuclear missle that could have killed people when it didn't. I don't mean to be rude, but please read the thread before posting. Or if you did read it all, go back and read again. I am not abitrarily angry about what happened, but over the fact that it totally destroyed any immersive quality to the DLC. It basically turned that DLC into a mechanical process where you treat your character as a mindless avatar with no real existance or personality. I am angry that they made me do something only an idiot or a sociopath with suicidal tendancies would do when my character was neither. I knew I was releasing a missile, and I had no idea who it would hit, and indeed was worried it might just explode right there and then and kill me. This was not a morally grey choice or a difficult but neccessary decision I had to make. It was a premeditated act of insanity that I took for no other reason than the game mechanic required it to progress. I did it because I was sat at a keyboard and if my character died or killed a millio people it was not real. It may have been the least 'Fallout' like moment in my Fallout gaming history.

Could be worse, we could be arguing over hats :)

I think I am gonna mod this DLC. There were two things I was pretty sure of: 1. Opening that silo door was a grade A stupid thing to do. 2. Ulysses needed me to find him way more than I needed to find him. I just knew I was carrying something or had something he needed. I even guessed what that was correctly. So for me, the perfect ending would have been to get on the phone with Ulysses, and tell him I was leaving him there to rot and let him go mental or force him to come to me. He needed me so badly it was painful to hear. It would have been exquisite payback for all his depressing speeches to leave him stuck there :)

Dunno, I guess I just figured finishing the launch sequence meant launching a nuke. And as for me not knowing that, then how did I know the door would not open until I opened the silo. All I can tell you is I spent hours looking around for alternatives because I had zero intention of opening the silo and I had no fore knowledge. It just seemed blindingly obvious to me, and my in game character should be smarter than me. When I finally got frustrated enough to pull it, sure enough exactly what I expected happened. Realistically my characters only choice whilst remaining an intelligent righteous man is to abandon the DLC. To be honest even playing evil I would consider releasing the silo door an act of unbridled stupidity unless I knew exactly what was going to happen and where (or specifically make sure where was not 'here'). And considering the Fallout world, I would say it was one of my number one rules : Dont mess around with intercontinental thermo neclear weapons unless you are pretty sure you know where they will land :)

Basically I have decided to play it to the end to have done the DLC, then I will load the save just before I opened the silo and do what I should have done at that point: Go back the Mojave and leave that depressing loony Ulysses to stew in his own self pity. I just wish I could take the new ED-E with me. I will finish this playthrough imagining this fuming moron sat in the Divide trying to find new ways to convince me to come back and chuckle to myself that skipping a DLC makes a better story than doing it :)

Well it's something I guess, but it does not exactly zing does it :) I just really hope in FO4 they start the game off with a bang like they did in FO3. A real history, and some sort of 'emerging from innocence' Fallout moment at the start. Preferably a vault. Hey I love vaults. Sue me.

Then you would be wrong. My good guy is not a passifist and has gone to war many times. I play the regulator type character. Bringing justice to the wasteland etc. But randomly letting off nukes that may kill thousands just because I want to chat with some depressing old hippy who left me a message is definately what I would consider 'bad guy' behaviour :)

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Thats fine, but you would hate FO1 and 2 then :) But I actually like those open RPGs too. I loved Morrowind, and really like Oblivion and Fallout New Vegas. They are fun. But I just prefer true RPGs. And by a 'true' RPG I mean one in which you play a role. Not just an alter ego of yourself, but a role. You have a history, a backstory, an emotional hook into the game other characters. Games like KOTOR, Mass Effect, Fallout etc. They put you in the character the way a movie does, but give you control. Not control over his past, but control over his future. In New Vegas my problem with the lack of 'role' is compunded by the lack of reason to do anything. You say you were compelled to track down the guy that shot you, but that is because you dont really care about the Courier. In real life, had it been YOU that had survived a robbery by a mafia boss, and found himself a hero in a nice town like Goodsprings, would you really have thrown it all away for the almost impossible task of training yourself up like some movie ninja to be able to take him out in his own territory? Somehow I find that hard to believe. In real life most people just thanks their lucky stars they are alive and get on with their life. Revenge is actually not a hugely motivating force for most people. Especially over something so impersonal as robbery. Now if Benny had shot your mum, now THAT is a reason I could get my teeth into. If he had stolen my days pocket watch etc. Something personal. Something that would resonate with me. And that is what the earlier FO games had. Save the vault. Save the tribe. Save dad. Something that would drive someone to extremes. I may hold a minor grudge at the bully who punched me in school, but I am not gonna devote my life to tracking him down. its just not a good motivator. EDIT: BTW if you made up a reason for the Couriers existance, what happens when that reason is not compatible with some later development in the game? You mentally change the reason? Or ignore the new development and hope it wont break your immersion?

Whereas Fallout New Vegas beginning: You awake in a prison boat with no real history and here is a random quest for you to ignore unless you are pathelogically unable to resist the urge to do something self destructive for no apparant reason other than it is required for the game to progress. No wait, that was Morrowind right? Ok, awake in a prison cell with no real history and here is a random quest .... no wait, that was Oblivion. Wait I got it: Awake in a house with no real history and here is ...... The Fallout 3 beginning may have had some flaws, but it was at least a Fallout beginning :) New Vegas beginning was a Bathesda special.

I didn't like the linear nature of Dead Money either, but at least it had some great characters and humor. Plus the choices I made I could live with, and had no real choice but to go forward. Wheras in Lonesome Road the only reasonable choice is to just leave the Divide and let Ulysses stew in his own self pity. Sorry, but after DLC like Old World Blues, they set the bar pretty high for what you can achieve in DLC. And they failed by a couriers mile and then some. Hell, OWB had a set of armor with more personality than everyone in Lonesome Road put together, and the dome brains had me rolling on the floor in laughter. It is as if they said 'Hey OWB was an incredible success, lets do the exact opposite for the final DLC to try to make up for us forgetting to add a backstory to the Courier in the main game.' Really disappointed with Obsidian on this to be honest. If FO1 had been like this, I would never have gotten to FO2.

How do I know that? I mean in the middle of the DLC I just opened a silo knowing a nuke would launch. No idea who it is really going to hit. No idea if it will just pop out 10 feet and explode in my face. Its nice that you tell me it does not hit anyone, but honestly, how did I know that when I pulled that lever? I didn't, so there is no way a good and intelligent character would have done what I did. I did it to progress a quest line, and thats it. I am about to do the showdown with Ulysses, but I already feel 'wrong'. This playthrough is just off now. My character is a grade A idiot or a psychopath (or both). I like neither option :(

Well I opened it and carried on because I just cannot face another playthrough after such a disappointment. And frankly I find myself agreeing with Ulysses now and wanting to shoot myself for being such a moron and randomly letting nukes fly. I cannot even believe my character had the option to say he didn't know it was going to happen. He has 9 intelligence, he should be smart, not supernaturally stupid. How could he not know what finishing the launch sequence would do. I hate my courier so much right now. I may let Ulysses kill him when I finally find him. Will be skipping this DLC in any future playthroughs. Most annoying DLC of any fallout game. Not just boring like Anchorage, but actually annoying. Doesn't even seem to have any humour, and has only two characters as far as I can see. After the incredible Old World Blues, this is a serious let down. Just feels like they tagged this on to make up for the total lack of a real back story with the main character. Obsidian, learn your lesson from this please: Main character should have a detailed backstory from the very start. Dont patch it on after the fact like some bad script for a sci-fi series that has lost its plot. How could you mess this up? Even Bathesda figured that out for FO3 and skipped their usual 'man with no name' lack of backstory starts.

Very true. Sometimes games live on in my memory for decades after I played them, but few games have that single moment that you instantly know will be etched in your heart forever. Leaving the vault and stepping out into that sun glare, and getting my first glimpse of the wasteland was an epic moment in gaming. I fell in love with FO3 right there :)

Really? My god I cannot believe how badly they have messed up on this DLC. Way too linear and cannot be completed in a 'good guy' playthrough. So basically I have to go back to the tunnel and forget I ever heard of Ulysses until I do an bad guy playthrough? Meh. I thought after Old World Blues they had figured it out and would stick with a winning formula. What a huge let down.

People play the fallout series and get different things out of them. For some it is the dialogue and humour, for others it is the Lord of the Rings style story of innocence entering the harsh world whilst keeping a little of that innocence even to the end. Each person gets something different from the series. But for me, I preffered Fallout 3. Three reasons I preferred FO3: 1. The DC Capitol just felt so beautifully destroyed. I just loved the constant reminder of mans stupidity. The Mojave looked way too much like an empty desert much of the time. It didn't quite have the same effect. 2. Main characters total lack of back story. To be honest I was never happy with Fallout 2 and its main character, still preferring the vault dweller character, but at least there was some sort of story behind the character. New Vegas is way too Bathesda for me. Its the whole 'you wake up in a prison cell/boat/doc mitchells and have no friends, family or past worth talking about'. Lonesome Road attempts to make up for that I guess, but I never quite fell in love with the Courier. He always seemed a bit of an idiot to me. Especially seeing as he then choses to go on the main quest, which must rank as the world pinacle of 'stupid ideas' :) 3. Main quest: WTF? My first instinct at the start of the game was to settle down in Goodsprings and become the sheriff or something. There seemed no real motivation to leave that town other than the game would be over otherwise. If I had survived a robbery from a mafia boss, and ended up in a town where I was idolized and there was a cute single chick in leather, you could not have got me out of that town with a crowbar. In all the other Fallout games I completely understood and agreed with the reasons for leaving the safelty of my friends and family. In New Vegas I could not quite see the reason to leave even the total strangers in Goodsprings. That was a nice little town any rational person could have settled in and no real reason to leave. For me New Vegas is very Oblivion. And I liked Oblivion, and played many hundreds of hours, so don't get me wrong, I still love New Vegas. But Fallout 3 was just way more Fallout for me because of point 2 and 3, and point 1 just made it all the sweeter. Now I know New Vegas had better dialogue, but in the end, I really wanted another Vault Dweller eperience. Fallout 3 = 10/10. New Vegas = 9.5/10. EDIT: Forgot to mention one thing I really liked in New Vegas though (apart from the better dialogue): New Vegas made way better use of skills and specials, and made the Speech skill really useful. Loved that! Also forgot to mention another reason Fallout 3 was better: Galaxy News Radio :)

I cannot progress in Lonesome Road without opening a silo at Ashton and letting a nuke out. Obviously there must be some other way to do this quest but for the life of me I cannot find it? Any help?

Yeah I can see that, but sometimes it is nothing more than a build up of frustration rather than an ego problem. I am not suggesting this is an excuse to give people a free pass, but perhaps it should be considered when passing sentence or in granting an appeal to a less harsh one at a later date. As you can tell, I am biased in this conversation because I know a banned modder and while I fully accept that he went over the line in how he reacted to an unfortunate misunderstanding, I honestly feel he was a positive force in our community. Not just for his mods, but for his interaction with other modders. But I would also like to emphasize I understand the ban policy, and respect the moderators decisions on this.

Obviously I am biased on this issue for two reasons but I do think modders should be cut a little more slack even if it is percieved as unfair. I would actually extend that to non modders who contribute in other ways, eg. people who post images, or just general posting and help people out. I would say it was more about how active someone had been (so long as that activity was seen as beneficial). I am not saying contributors should be immune, or should get away with truly offensive or illegal behaviour. Just that perhaps after a suitable time away people should perhaps be allowed back in the community if they have something to offer. And as for the problem of people thinking contributers get special treatment, I really don't see it as an issue. You really think someone who has 2 posts to his name and gets banned has reason to complain that someone else who contributed for years was forvigen by the community? Thats just normal. If you are a great guy most of the time and help people out, they will forguve you the odd misdemeanor faster than if you are a stranger that has contributed little to the common good. Thats just normal social dynamics at work. But like I said, I am hugely biased in this issue, and appreciate there are definately those that strongly disagree and I respect that.

Can we have some feature that lets us publish our mod list to our profile or PM to a mod author? Just thinking that it is often useful to know what someones load order is when helping them out, but actually a lot of mods dont have ESPs or ESMs. Just a thought. edit: obviously i mean a voluntary posting. Not suggesting people be forced to publish their mod choices :)

Count me IN :)

This is an awesome piece of news. And hopefully we can get used to the new client just in time for Skyrim :) Guess I am going to have to make a part 9 for my tutorial series after all ....