JimS61

Considering no other Dragon is known to possess that Thu'um, despite them having been alive for ages, it is safe to say the "bring a dragon back to life" Thu'um is something only Alduin had, or could have. If any Dragon could possess it the Dragon War wouldn't make sense. And yet, the Dovahkiin is longer important as a Dovahkiin, his purpose has been served, as a mortal he can do whatever he wants, as a Dovahkin hes useless. The Blades are expert Dragon killers who know ancient magics that allow people to hunt Dragons with ease. Alduin brought back countless Dragons during the time he was alive, having people go off and kill them independently is a lot less effective then having an order of warrior whose sole job is to hunt dragons, and who have detailed knowledge of dragons, and their weaknesses. The original Blades were expert dragon slayers but Delphine and Esbern are the only two Blades left alive and they ARE NOT EXPERTS. Esbern has NEVER even seen a dragon and Delphine has only seen one, the dragon at Kynesgrove, so neither of them are any where near being experts.

That is entirely incorrect. The Dovahkiin in the only person who can take the souls of Dragons, making them unable to be resurrected. Any average Joe can kill a dragon, but as long as it still has its soul Alduin can bring it back. However, with the defeat of Alduin by the Dovahkiin, the one and only dragon that is known to be able to resurrect Dragons, is gone. If you pay attention, when you time travel back to the Dragon War, you can see MANY dead dragons who haven't had their soul taken, they still have their flesh and everything, because there was no Dragonborn during the time of the Dragon War to take their souls. The only dragon that needed a special person to kill was Alduin, only because he is Akatosh. Where did the idea that Alduin is really Akatosh come from? I heard and saw nothing about it in the game and it doesn't say any thing like that in the very thick Skyrim Official Game Guide either. Every thing I've heard and read simply said that Alduin was the oldest and the first dragon created by Akatosh, not that he was Akatosh. Though he prefers to "appear" as a dragon when he does choose to show himself. Plus if Alduim really was Akatosh then he would be a God and wouldn't need to devour the souls of the honored dead for strength. A God is by nature completely indestructable and cannot be defeated or beaten by any one or any thing, not even by a Dovahkiin.

As I pointed out to Freya1997, how is Parth supposed to do anything when he is the only dragon left alive? He need minions and other dragons to help him out, and he cant bring them back to life himself. Seriously, it's like.... no one is actually thinking what they are saying through. People know what they're saying. It's just that many of us won't kill just to be on the safe side. In this country people are punished for crimes they've already cimmited, not for crime they "might" commit. This applies to all imtelligent creatures, even dragons when applied to the gaming world. There are still plenty of dragons around so what do you do, make an alphabeticial list and kill all dragons in alphabeticial order? What difference whether you kill them now or next week or next month or next year? If they don't bother any one, then leave them alone. I already killed Alduin and just joined the legion and after a few missions for them a dragon attacked and he won't do that again because he's dead now. From now on the only dragons I go after are those that cause trouble. Those that leave people alone have nothing to fear from me. As far as Paarthurnax is concerned, if the Blades ago after him or send some one to kill him they'll have to get past my Dovahkiin I stand by my friends and allies in real life and in games, too. .

Path has waited over 4,000 years for Alduin's return and defeat. You really don't think he could wait another.... like 30... for you to die? It doesn't matter if you can kill him or not...... if your dead you can't do jack. The Dragons play a very very long game, 30 years is nothing to them. Exactly. He's lived in isolation for thousands of years which is like a prison sentence (a rather unusually long one) and IF he was going to do something he would have done so BEFORE a dragonborn was born.

Every one seems to forget that you can't trust Delphine's or Esbern's opinions any way. How do you know they're right about dragons? Dragons didn't even exist in their world until the Dovahkiin showed up but the Greybeards did exist and they're both totally wrong about the Greybeards. They said the Greybeards were afraid of power but if so then why are they masters of the shouts? They said the Greybeards were afarid of you but if they were would they have trained you to use your powers? Would they have told you your welcome to come back any time you want to return? They said the Greybeards wanted you to ignore your destiny and just sit on their mountain and pray to the sky and do nothing else when the Greybeards actually told you to go out into the world and find your destiny. They were totally wrong about the Greybeards who do live in their world so how can we be sure they're right about dragons when they didn't live in their world. If they can be 100% wrong about today's world I'm not about to trust their "knowledge" of the world that was a few thousand years ago.

I had to burst out laughing the first time I got around to doing that quest and she made that comment about how I shouldn't have come there if I didn't trust her and killing my Dovah. At the beginning of the game I'd taken off towards Falkreath and pretty much never gone to Riverwood before except to speak to Hadvar's uncle (which I waited quite a while to do). When I was talking to her I was a vampire wearing a full set of Nightingale Armor and dual-wielding the Mace of Molag Bal (which guards can freak out at the sight of) along with Dawnbreaker, and had arrived at the Inn with Cicero from the Dark Brotherhood and the dog Vigilance after riding in to town on Shadowmere. I think I also had the Spectre of Lucien Lachance summoned, not sure though. I couldn't help but feel it should be pretty obvious that I could take out the entire town if I felt like it, and that if she really doubted that I was Dragonborn the Whiterun Guards outside could probably vouch for me since they were sent there around the same time I killed Mirmulnir and they can comment on it. LOL... :laugh: ...I love it....would have liked to have seen that..... :biggrin: .....Delphine certainly has some very delusional tickets on herself.... :D .....Mine wasn't quite as dramatic as yours... :happy: ....I play a Nord with a Height Adjusted Races Mod, so as a Breton she is tiny and I also have my Nord Man console set to Altmer height with max weight slide....suffice to say, his one big man.....she looks absolutely tiny beside him....him bristling with some rather impressive weapons of his own (not Daedric, but impressive none the less) and did I forget to mention his Snowy Sabre Cat companion?.... :P ....And there's this miniscule big mouth woman popping out with that line....My face.... :blink:

Because Alduin is supposed to be next to indestructable and Paarthurnax isn't and he knows it so if you can defeat Alduin, Paarth knows he wouldn't stand a chance against you. Also, many quote Paarthurnax's speech but they forget he said that Alduin (on his own) is a spoiled first born brat and decided to take domination as his birthright. I think the other dragons aren't really that evil. They just follow Alduin because he has access to Sovenguard where he can make himslef indstructable so they're afraid to oppose him. THEY can die in a war, Alduin can't so they're the ones that take all the chances, not him. With Alduin gone they can live their own lives instead of living and dying for him. Once Alduin is gone we'll only hunt the dragons that cause trouble. Those that don't cause trouble we'll leave alone.

The Blades duty is to follow the Dragonborn yes.... in helping him fulfill his divine duty... which is to slay dragons. With the Dragonborn's denial of his divine task, the blades are not bound to serve him. Dovahkiin IS NOT bound to kill something just because it has scales and flies. His devine task is to protect others from dragons but if a certain dragon isn't hostile then no one needs to be protected from it. "PROTECTING" some one from a non-hostile dragon is just murder.

I say he lives.

He's morethan made ammends.

This poll should get some interesting results from all of the posts on tthis subject over the past year. Isolated by himself and alone for thousands of years, outcast by his own kind for helping us and helping us the best he could whenever called on. I for one say he's more than paid for any crimes he may have commited. HE SHOULD LIVE!!

I don't know where some people come up with the idea that the Blade's Oath is to just kill dragons. THAT'S WHAT THE DRAGONGUARD DID, NOT WHAT THE BLADES ARE SUPPOSED TO DO. Delphine herself said the Blades Oath was to FOLLOW AND SERVE the Dragonborn. That means the Dovahkiin is in charge. HE makes the decissions, not the Blades. If some Blades disagree with it, no problem as long as they carry out his decission.. If they can't, they leave the Blades so as far as I'm concerned, Delphine and Esbern left the Blades when they issued an ultimatum to Dovahkiin. Do what we say or we won't follow you.

This game needs an update that allows the Dovahkiin the option of confronting Delphine and Esbern and tell them that because of their inability to follow the true oath of the Blades that their services are no longer required and then lets you banish them from Sky Haven Temple. Then as Dovahkiin you could reform the Blades into what they were originally meant to be, followers of the Dragonborn.

Ulfric was "WRONG" doing what he did! The custom and law is the king must accept a challenge to "honorable" combat but what Ulfric did wasn't honorable. It was murder. Honorable would have been to meet the king face to face with somewhat similar weapons but Ulfric had been planning this for a long time. It takes years to learn just 1 shout and ulfric did just that, spent years leaarning a shout just so he could kill the king without taking a chance on himself being hurt. No mortal except for the Greybeards and Dovahkiin can stand up to a shout and the king didn't know any shouts and Ulfric "knew" this That was not honorable combat but was just a coward commiting murder.

How did you come up with "8 DRAGONS" in Sovengarde? Only 1 dragon has access to Sovengarde and that's Alduin. If you found 8 dragons in Sovengarde then you have a serious gliche.

He gives you 3 perks, all of which have about zero impact. Esbern also teaches you Call Dragon. Paarthurnax does nothing, because in-game those dragon's "he calls to his side" do nothing. And besides that, Nax is a time bomb. All it takes is one loss of control one day (because he still fights against his true nature every day. He says this himself, and if he hasn't been able to completely overcome that nature in the thousands of years he's had to do so, he won't be doing so any time soon either) and he could corrupt every dragon he's trying to convert, and we have another Dragon war on our hands. He is better off dead, and honestly his goal is fruitless. Trying to take a force of nature and force it to conform to some mortal whims is foolish. That Paarthurnax hasn't snapped already is nothing short of a miracle, and its not even a certainty that he did it of his own accord. Kyne was majorly involved in bestowing man with their own voice. Whose to say that she didn't use some of her godly power to take Nax away from the realm of normal dragons? But besides all that, in-game neither choice has any real, substantial benefits. You may as well be choosing two empty boxes as far as the actual pro's and con's go.

He gives you 3 perks, all of which have about zero impact. Esbern also teaches you Call Dragon. Paarthurnax does nothing, because in-game those dragon's "he calls to his side" do nothing. And besides that, Nax is a time bomb. All it takes is one loss of control one day (because he still fights against his true nature every day. He says this himself, and if he hasn't been able to completely overcome that nature in the thousands of years he's had to do so, he won't be doing so any time soon either) and he could corrupt every dragon he's trying to convert, and we have another Dragon war on our hands. He is better off dead, and honestly his goal is fruitless. Trying to take a force of nature and force it to conform to some mortal whims is foolish. That Paarthurnax hasn't snapped already is nothing short of a miracle, and its not even a certainty that he did it of his own accord. Kyne was majorly involved in bestowing man with their own voice. Whose to say that she didn't use some of her godly power to take Nax away from the realm of normal dragons? But besides all that, in-game neither choice has any real, substantial benefits. You may as well be choosing two empty boxes as far as the actual pro's and con's go. Wrong. Those 3 perks do help but you must repeat them for them to have any real effect. When you mediate on the 3 words, your Thumm becomes stronger, more powerful. This is stated in the "Official Guide To Skyrim Book" (a very thick book) and the book says to mediate with him as often as you want so I tried it and it DOES work. I visit(ed) Paarth quite often just to do that and each time I mediated on each word and then did it again 2 more times (for a total of 3 times each) and every time I shouted after each visit, my shout was more powerful (but remeber, I mediated each word 3 times to really make it noticable). :thumbsup:

As far as I recall the Blades Oath is to FOLLOW, SERVE AND PROTECT the Dragonborns but they're the ones who need protection from the Aldumarrie Domenion. They only came out of hiding after 30 years because they found the Dovahkiin so they feel safe now. How safe will they be if the Dovahkiin quits the Blades, leaving them on their own? As for TO FOLLOW AND SERVE goes, the only FOLLOWING and SERVING they seem to want or do is to get the Dovahkiin to follow and serve them. FOLLOW by blindly following and obeying them and SERVE by killing or commiting genocide on command!? NO WAY! My Dovahkiin walked away. Now how safe and protected are they? :devil:

I never heard any thing about that! WHY is the 360 banned in the U.S. and since when? :ohmy:

To those trying to compare mercy to Paarthurnax to the Nazis war criminals, it doesn't hold up. Let's remember that Paarth realized his wrongs, switched sides and began helping mankind long before the Dragon War was over. In the thousand or so years since then he not only has done NOTHING to harm any one. but was not even seen or heard from for all of that time. If he WAS still evil, dangerous and blood thirsty he could have/would have conducted his own war of death, destruction and terror against humanity, but he didn't. He controled his "inner beast" so well that for over thousands of years no one even knew he was still alive except for the Greybeards. The ancient Warriors who actually fought the dragons didn't demand his death, the ancient blades didn't demand his death and the ancient people didn't demand his death. If they did Paarth would have been killed because he couldn't possibly stand against the entire world by himself. But now we have just 2 genocidal Blades who've never even seen a dragon and that want to be ruled by ancient legends from 1,000 years ago instead of recent recorded history and modern day facts. that have decided to turn it from a victroy in war into total genocide. As far as the Nazi War Criminals of WW2, those who realized their wrong doings and switched sides to the Allies and then helped the Allies were shown mercy because their own realization and concious brought the around but those who waited til the end were shown no mercy because their only reason for being remorseful was the fact that it was over and it was now time to "pay the piper". It's extremely easy to be remorseful and to want to make ammends when you're sitting in a prison cell waiting trial and/or execution for the mass murder of hundreds or mllions. Those who continued to order and those who obeyed those orders up til the end, from the highest rank to the lowest rank were shown no mercy. There's a very big differnce between actually being a new, remorseful person who wants to make ammends and just trying to pretend so just to save your own neck. Plus the evidence against Paarth is just ancient legend while we have/had very recent written documented evidence about WW2. Killing Paarthurnax would simply be taking out revenge on him for the crimes all other dragons commited and Paarth has/had no control over the actions of the other dragons. Paarthurnax MUST NOT DIE!! :no:

Many people have questioned why The Greybeards don't get involved with fighting dragons and the answer is very simple. "That's not their destiny or their job". Their's is to mediate & commun with the Devines & to teach and HELP guide new Dragonborns when they come into the world. It takes more than shouts to kill a dragon, it also requires weapons. Can you imagine old men like them with no training trying to weild swords & other weapons against a dragon? They'd be dead in the blink of an eye. Then who would teach & guide new Dragonborns? Delphine and Esbren or people like them? I think not. All they could teach is hatred & blind obedeance to themselves as the new masters of The Blades. Delphine never even saw a dragon until she helped you at Kynesgrove. All she knows are writings, legends & myths but no experience so she's lumped them all in one pot. Evil - must die. Esbern has been hiding in terror of them for 30 years, afraid of their return so he's super paranoid of them. But it turns out they didn't have to return. One has been here all along, Paathurnax, and he's harmed NO ONE. If Paarthurnax was going to do some thing he'd have done it by now. Instead all he's done for century's is mediate, commun with the Devines & work with the Greybeards. Delphine's problem is simple hatred & prejudice & nothing more and she also knows nothing about the Greybeards. She said they were afraid of you. Not so. If they were they wouldn't have trained and made you welcome to return any time you wanted. She also said the Greybeards wanted you to waste your gift by sitting in their retreat all of your life just mediating with them & this is also wrong. They said they could train & guide you but then you must go out into the world and find & fullfill your destiny on your own. They never tried to control me like Delphine did. With Esbern it's his paranoia at work and his life-long friendship with Delphine that's the problem. He lets her make the decissions then simply agrees with her. If he hadn't been living in such terror for so long, he would probably be able to think more clearly, make his own decissions and might agee with you that Paarthurnax is an asset & not a problem. They asked once:- "What happens if he turns on us like he turned on Alduin"? Simple. We'll cross that bridge IF & when we come to it & not before. Plus, the Dragonborn Temple (hideout) is supposed to be the Dragonborn's home & Delphine & Esbern are just guests there to serve & follow. Where do they get off throwing you out of your own home? As far as I'm concerned, they cut their own throats. They were hiding from the Thalmore and now they're now still just a hate filled woman warrior & an addel-brained old man who are now out in the open with no Dragonborn to help defend them. So they're still in the same boat but now they're also in plain sight to the Thalmore.

I refused to kill Paarthurnax for many reasons. 1st. Being Dragon Born wouldn't do any good without him. A Dragon Born can't unlock a shout without knowing the words and he's the one who first started teaching people the shouts when the Devines gave us the ability to learn them. 2nd He's more than made amends for any past crimes as he worked hard for centuries to help us (and the ancient blades) defeat the dragons, he helped repair & close the time rip the ancient blades created, he showed you how to get the Dragon Rend Shout to help you fight Alduin, when Alduin showed up to fight you he brought some backup to help him but Paarthurnax attacked his backup and kept him busy so he couldn't interfere with you and he told you how to catch a dragon to find Alduin's secret hideout. 3. The Blades are supposed to follow and serve the Dragon Born, not lead and control him. He's supposed to be their leader, not their secret weapon that blindly follows their orders. They aren't blades any more because they forgot their oaths, duties and responsibilities. I loved it when the Graybeards told the blades I had decided NOT to kill Paarthurnax but I'd have loved to have added a few lines to it by telling them that:- "I don't kill on command and I DON'T betray friends and or allies and if they or any one else comes after Paarthurnax, they'll find me standing side by side with him to take on ALL challengers. For me to harm him or allow him to be harmed he will first have to betray me or humanity".