calscks
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In response to post #54959923.i think it really depends on personal preferences -- for instance your don't likes, don't cares and how you remember things as well, no? but i do have a suggestion for a *rather* win-win situation such as having an option to hide thumbnails in the tracking centre. but i could at least agree with the logs because i did expect it to show changelogs and is pretty disappointed.Jeir wrote:
Probably the most important page for me as a mod user is the tracking centre. I don't use NMM/MO/Vortex/whatever, so it's how I keep track of the mods I'm using.
People have already covered what is good/bad about mod pages (the second most important page for me), and the browser addon linked on page 78 fixes a lot of the issues, so I'll just concur with the general theme of 'big images and lots of scrolling = bad'.
Good:
-'Updated'. The little blue indication stands out and makes it easier to see what's been updated since I last downloaded.
- I can stop tracking a mod without having to go into the 'Manage Tracked Files' section or going to the mod page.
Bad:
- Instead of seeing 18 mods without scrolling, I see 8.
- I remember mods by their names. The tiny thumbnails are unnecessary. Most of the time the thumbnails rarely have anything to do with the mod anyway.
- I only view tracked mods from the game site I'm on. The game name is unnecessary when you're on the site for that game. The column for it is also horizontally static - large game names (like SSE) just add more rows. With the space above/below the text, it makes each one take up 3x more rows than needed.
- The 'log' seems to link to the Activity log. Thus, it's just a huge list of who has endorsed, which doesn't matter in the slightest, with sporadic changes to the actual mod. Better would be for it to link to the Action Log (as it currently does) or Change Log (if the author utilises it).
- The giant 'Tracking Centre' title is pointless. I know where I am. It even says directly above it. This just wastes space.
Neutral:
- I don't really care about the author's name. I track the mod because I'm interested in it. I suppose it might be a useful way to easily kudos (or donate) the author.
- I don't care about the category. Not quite sure why this was added. To quickly go to the category itself and view other mods in the same category?
Also, for those that are going to whine at me for not liking extra scrolling; all I want is the same functionality and efficiency as the current site. I am not saying scrap the entire thing; I'm pointing out things that maybe should be reconsidered at some point and improved or given alternate options for. These extra-large tiles/text boxes/images are not something that has nor will ever appeal to me. I've maybe used my phone for viewing the Nexus/the internet in general a couple of times in the past year (since I got the phone, after half a decade without one); primarily I use PC for everything internet-related, thus big-everything's aren't needed. I'm not blind, nor am I using a tiny 5inch screen.
Here is an example of what I would like the Tracking Centre to look like, at least as an option. I used uBlock to remove pretty much everything that I class as 'bad' or 'neutral'. By removing all of it, I get the functionality and efficiency of the old site (including going from 8 back to 18 mods visible without scrolling), with the new site's skin, and the two 'good' things that I do like.
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In response to post #54935243. #54935523, #54947223, #54947753, #54954958, #54955858, #54958068, #54976953, #54985023, #54987183 are all replies on the same post.>how was Tannin able to build fully functional mod organizer in such a short time when he was working all aloneMysteriousGuy wrote: "Not long now!"
We are talking 2 months minimum here. It was months in development already. Makes me wonder how was Tannin able to build fully functional mod organizer in such a short time when he was working all alone, but its not the case now when he has whole team around him.
So after months of waiting for something, you cant even provide a screenshot to public? Really?fluxxdog wrote: Yes really.lunsmann wrote: Perhaps it was purely due to MO only needing to support ONE game. Vortex (like NMM) will be supporting many different games.
All I want is for FNIS to install and work out of the box (like it does in NMM). MO is a pain in the arse with FNIS, and abandoned almost straight away.SharraShimada wrote:In response to post #54935243. #54935523, #54947223 are all replies on the same post.MysteriousGuy wrote: "Not long now!"
We are talking 2 months minimum here. It was months in development already. Makes me wonder how was Tannin able to build fully functional mod organizer in such a short time when he was working all alone, but its not the case now when he has whole team around him.
So after months of waiting for something, you cant even provide a screenshot to public? Really?fluxxdog wrote: Yes really.lunsmann wrote: Perhaps it was purely due to MO only needing to support ONE game. Vortex (like NMM) will be supporting many different games.
All I want is for FNIS to install and work out of the box (like it does in NMM). MO is a pain in the arse with FNIS, and abandoned almost straight away.Tannin made MO alone back in the days, when he had the time. And it was only 32 bit. Developing such a tool with full 64 bit support is a completely different thing.
Thats why MO2 never was what Tannin was expecting from it.
And now, it takes time, because its a team. Tanning cant work all alone, doing things like he wants them to be all by himself. Everything has to be first an idea, moves to a meeting, and later there will be a consensus. Such things take time... a lot of time.
And sometimes you try something, test it, and as a result, you throw it into the dumpster, because it wont work.
Software-development is time consuming as hell. Its not just coding. In fact, thats, what take the leas amount of the time. Its everying around the lines of code.MysteriousGuy wrote: Seeing what Tannin was able to do with MO makes me fully believe he is more then capable to easily create amazing mod manager. Its complexity or 64-bit doesn't matter so much - he is the man for the job.
What doesn't feel right is nexus itself. Being game modding site you would expect they would promote and share information about their main modding tool - Vortex.
Instead it was kept in secrecy for months. Check news how many times they shared any information about Vortex this year. Then check how many of those posts actually speak about Vortex. Most of them are just recruitment posts.
Seems focus was moved more to the side projects (Web site redesign) or development was facing issues leading to delay (no info about why everything is so delayed because nexus is all shiny and beautiful).
Ignoring what it feels like and back to what we do know is - it's over a year now that Tannin was recruited for this job. That's one year of people waiting for new mod manager or at least some information about its functionality and looks. A week ago new site design was announced and then they said we are finally getting an update about vortex this week.
This week they tell us we will get nothing (not even a screenshot because imagine if people say they don't like it, and everyone has to like it when its finished) but we have to wait for 2 months now to get something.
Do we get an update in 2 months that now we have to wait a year for an update?Dark0ne wrote:Makes me wonder how was Tannin able to build fully functional mod organizer in such a short time when he was working all alone, but its not the case now when he has whole team around him.
When Tannin first released MO it was simply the VFS system with a text file on how to enable it. The MO you see today took him over 5 years of work to get where it is now. It's stupid to even compare the two.
Would you rather wait 5 years? Hmm.Seems focus was moved more to the side projects (Web site redesign)
The website isn't a side-project, it's the main project. Without the website, there is no Vortex, but without Vortex (or NMM) there's still a website. Ergo, Vortex would be the "side project".
However, development of the website and development of Vortex are parallel, rather than one delaying the other. Tannin works on Vortex, the web development team work on the website, and the only time they intersect is when Tannin needs more functionality in the web API which the web developers need to do.MysteriousGuy wrote: I would wait 5 years knowing that it will take 5 years for it to be finished rather than check for updates regularly only to get a notice that i have to wait for a notice that will tell me to wait for another notice.Balx2 wrote: Maybe NMM isn't a site you should be visiting then. It appears you did not even read the entire news post, highly doubt you have bothered to ever read any of them.
These things take time, we have received updates as the team felt they had something worth saying and everything has been explained in detail in the news posts.MysteriousGuy wrote: @ Balx2
Oh really then when you have all the information please tell me how will new mod manager function or look like?
How will you activate and install mods and where?
Will it be just one button on the left like NMM, will there be check mark to easily deactivate it like in MO?
Will Vortex have that annoying web page window loading every time you click on any mod like in NMM or will it have nice and clean interface like MO that actually lets you do something with that mod?
Will it be huge UI with few buttons and useless mod categories like NMM or will it let you actualy see important things like mod order and load order like in MO?
How will mod creators work with Vortex? Will they run 3rd party tools from Vortex or outside?
Go ahead i have time.cyrusmagnus wrote: Your complaint is odd. Honestly, it feels like you're just disappointed Tannin didn't finish MO2 and are trying to lash out and be deceptively destructive of this project.
Your questions are logical, but missing a critical point: software development is hard enough by yourself, but exponentially compounded in difficulty by every additional voice you add to the mix.
So they have Tannin, Dark0ne, the team, and 30 people looking at it. That means if person number 28 has an idea of how something could look/be better, and they voice it, they then have to query 30+ other people on if they agree or disagree. Let's say 25% of them agree, does that mean it should change? Is it majority rule? Does Tannin have the final say? Does Dark0ne?
Why on Earth do you think they'd want to open that process up to thousands of people before they've even decided in house, for sure, what they want to do? In this update Dark0ne specifically pointed out that they aren't even finalized. They're close, but close is meaningless in development. You never know what will happen next.
Again, your questions are logical, but you don't deserve to ask them. You're not paying for this product. You are not a client. You're just some lucky guy that gets to have all this free stuff plopped in their lap for nothing.
If it takes 2 months or 2 years, whatever gets made has nothing to do with your opinion or entitled demands for information. You want your own mod managing software? Learn to code and make it yourself, and stop pestering the people who are actually doing the work with your whining.
*checks initial commits on github*
*2013*
hmm.jpg
i'd've agreed upon your point on showing a few sneak peeks regarding to Vortex, but it's completely optional for whether developers wanting to show it or not. software development works internally, even if it's "agile" enough only selected users shall provide the initial feedback to how a software should or shouldn't work during the development cycle. Tannin has enough credits -- you're completely disregarding the whole development team. @cyrusmagnus describes you well -- entitled individual who doesn't know how real software engineering works, but i can tell it looks as real as people who have spent so much time developing COMMUNITY software whilst getting lashed by take-for-granted users who insistently demand things even before release because we can already see it here. -
In response to post #54930308. #54930478, #54930773, #54930833, #54930843, #54930848, #54930913, #54931018, #54931133, #54931298, #54931363, #54931473, #54931588, #54932243, #54933863, #54934008, #54934293, #54934383, #54935133, #54936008, #54939378, #54939888, #54941398, #54945963, #54946478 are all replies on the same post.more like "I want this, I want that...or else f*k off". it sounds more like a demand without appreciation and take things as granted. a few of them even went as far as ignoring what Dark0ne has been saying then proceed to tell the same tale again.Kevin843 wrote: Like I said before no REAL virtual data=no using Vortex, I dont want my data folder messed up and ability to reorder mods is what makes MO2 the best mod manager. I am disappointed it is highly anticipated it will not have a virtual data like MO2. Hopefully there will still be community builds of MO2 for future Bethesda games. No way I can go back to installing mods to data folder now. I wont even bother using it if it dosent have these "Essential" MO2 features.Zora wrote: I agree, not using a virtual file system is a step-back from what could be a huge improvement to mod managers we've seen so far. I still have high hopes for Vortex and will probably use it either way.SarahTheMascara wrote: I agree. Keeping the data folder clean is essential for me as well. I have so many different builds for Skyrim and I'm jumping back and forth between profiles regularly.BlueGunk wrote: From the interview with Tannin, 10 May 2017:
Robin: I think we both know the biggest questions we've received around Vortex have been in regards to virtualisation and how Vortex will handle and store files on people's hard-drives. Is Vortex going to use virtualisation?
Tannin: Yes it does.
I know people have - often very strong - opinions on the topic so I ask that you please read my reasons before you go to the comments and vent.
In the initial release of Vortex, virtualisation will be implemented using links (symbolic or hard links), similar to NMM v0.6. We've left the door open so we can implement different approaches (i.e. the usvfs library from Mod Organizer) but at this point I don't think there will be a "no virtualisation" option.Dark0ne wrote: Thanks for your feedback.
If you're not interested in a mod manager that doesn't use MO's functionality VFS, that's fine. But this is about Vortex, not MO.
I'll be deleting any more comments that follow this line of thought as it's completely irrelevant to what I've talked about in this news article.Yggdrasil7557 wrote: There are many reasons for this, Tannin is the original developer of mod organizer, and he was one of the people who decided not to use virtual filing. the new program will feature mod managing methods similar to how mod organizer currently works, the file managing will be able to work in many the same ways that mo does, the only difference is that it will actually place the files in the correct locations, this is for the same reason that el presidente gave up on mo2, the crashes due to virtual filing, especially in 64 bit are far too complex. for more info go read all previous posts about vortex, including the post where tannin said he was discontinuing development of mo1Valyn81 wrote:Remember that it is not the same thing as the old NMM did, corrupting your data folder easily.TanninOne is helping them make the new Vortex, so you know Vortex will have some aspect of MO2 in order to help minimize data folder corruption.
*EDIT*
Seems BlueGunk, Yggdrasil7557, and I all have the same thought at about the same time, lol.:wub:
Here is the link to help the people with Facts about Vortex and its Virtualization:
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/13257/?Qrygg wrote: I'm confused... where does it say there will be no virtualization?Dark0ne wrote:I'm confused... where does it say there will be no virtualization?
They're getting confused (which is kind of telling), there is virtualisation, it's just not the same as MO's virtualisation, which is what they are actually taking issue with.
We already did a Q&A with Tannin where it was explained why Tannin had decided to choose a different method, so the fact this needs to be brought up in a different news article about a different topic is...odd...to say the least.
If not using MO's virtualisation is a "no deal" for you, I just don't really understand why you're here, posting it as a comment in a completely unrelated article about Vortex.Ethreon wrote: You expect rando user who doesn't know what's in his data folder to remember previous discussions?Valyn81 wrote: *Delete this comment, content moved to my first reply.*AnyOldName3 wrote: Mod Organizer 2 doesn't seem to actually be abandoned anymore. There were commits today, for example, which doesn't suggest to me that it's abandoned.Valyn81 wrote: They said MO1 not MO2.
*Replying from the forum is annoying*ousnius wrote: A clean data folder is really not an argument for using or not using Vortex. It really isn't.
You're saying you're switching profiles all the time, but these are all things that are still possible (just as easily and quickly) as with NMM or MO. Just instead of doing it at runtime, the hard links are handling it within seconds. This was all explained in the previous news post already.opusGlass wrote: I'm sorry Dark0ne, but it seems like you guys are trying to dodge the issue here.
Whether or not the underlying mechanism is the same as MO, there is one feature where NMM has never reached the bar. That is the ability to reorder the mod install order. In Mod Organizer, if ModA and ModB both have a copy of the same file and ModB is winning, you can move ModB above ModA and now ModA is winning. In NMM on the other hand, you have to uninstall and reinstall ModA. Additionally, in MO you can uninstall and reinstall ModA without altering the fact that ModB wins the conflict, another necessary function for debugging a mod list.
If Tannin has found a way to implement that same functionality with symlinks/hardlinks, then everyone here will be happy. But I haven't seen any confirmation of that, and silence speaks for itself. So far only MO has achieved that vital functionality. That's why everyone keeps harping on about whether or not you're using the same system as MO.
If you've achieved that functionality, please let us know, so this can end. Otherwise you will continue to get angry posts from grumpy users who are stuck with a buggy MO2.
(And this is really a secondary issue, but I just want to point out that a clean Data folder is an important feature for many mod authors, who need to be able to package their mod files from Data without having to sort through thousands of files to figure out which ones belong to that mod. This isn't a problem for me because I've developed a workflow that doesn't rely on the true Data folder, but a few months ago that would've been a deal breaker for me, and I'm sure it still is for some authors.)Dark0ne wrote:If you've achieved that functionality, please let us know, so this can end. Otherwise you will continue to get angry posts from grumpy users who are stuck with a buggy MO2.
If Tannin has found a way to implement that same functionality with symlinks/hardlinks, then everyone here will be happy. But I haven't seen any confirmation of that, and silence speaks for itself. So far only MO has achieved that vital functionality. That's why everyone keeps harping on about whether or not you're using the same system as MO.
The majority of complaints are because users want "a clean data folder" and aren't related to what you're talking about at all.
If you haven't heard anything about a particular aspect of Vortex it's because we're not ready to talk about it yet. Indeed, we'd rather wait until users actually used Vortex and saw how Tannin has implemented things, rather than trying to explain it to users and have them misunderstand or arbitrarily dismiss the methods Tannin has come up with as inferior based on no actual understanding of the issue.VaultBoyAM wrote: @opusGlass You should read the original post AND all the replies by Tannin. He's already mentioned that you can set mod conflict victory, not exactly a mod install order, but you'll get the same end result.fireundubh wrote:
Silence doesn't speak for itself, hence its name.Silence speaks for itself.velvetsanity wrote: El presidents hasn’t given up on MO2. He’s still working on it. I know this because a friend of mine is testing things in it for him.lued123 wrote: Actually, Tannin has said that you can control "installation order" in Vortex. It's just a little different in that you don't control the entire priority order. You just set the order for the mods that need to be in a specific order. You say "Put mod B under mod A" rather than "Put all of my 300 mods in this exact order."literallybyronic wrote: Honestly, without BOTH of those features (clean data folder/drag and drop install ordering) i will never use Vortex, period. I wouldn't even bother to try it out unless I knew those features were there, no matter how pretty it looks or how many other bells and whistles are added. I would bet that many, many experienced modders will feel exactly the same way.Ethreon wrote: Still going on and on about how "many" want something you want. No, some want that. Many just wanna use mods, they don't really give a crap about virtualization or clean data.Oblivionplayer437 wrote: Vortex will have to provide some serious advantages over MO2 in order to sway MO user to switch, none the least because development is ongoing with MO, albeit at a slow pace. But even the somewhat buggy present version of MO 2.0.8.3 is plenty good to manage modlists. We shall see soon enough what Vortex will be, and until then we should probably just shut up and wait. Devs are set on their course and will not change anything just because some unhappy peeps in here "demand" things. Some commentors have such a wrong attitude.SirTwist wrote: Actually, there will be virtualization. They aren't going to cut it out. It will be similar to what NMM currently uses, and leave the way open for further virtualization, such as what MO2 uses. Or even a different system. And there won't be a no virtualization option. That, to me, is pretty clear. So, yes, Vortex will leave the data folders alone.CrowbarRX wrote: I read "I want this, I want that" ...who says it doesn't already? My advice: just wait, you'll probably be surprised. -
In response to post #54930713. #54932353, #54932553 are all replies on the same post.thanks, very glad to hear about thatcalscks wrote: is there any interoperability with existing installation information from NMM? or we'll need to start fresh on vortex? that's the only thing i'm concerned about...Tannin42 wrote: We have import options from NMM and MO.Zanderat wrote: Perfect.
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is there any interoperability with existing installation information from NMM? or we'll need to start fresh on vortex? that's the only thing i'm concerned about...
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In response to post #54735783. #54750263, #54754653, #54756533, #54761463, #54773643 are all replies on the same post.i'm sorry but I don't find it harder to use at all. if i may i'll say that it's much easier in terms of navigation, and the descriptions which categorise requirements and such, who doesn't like it? it's true that it lacks a few good features from the old design, but i believe that the new design is a WIP. all you need to do is providing a proper feedback to suggestions and recommendations.pacfish wrote:
Once again, the mobile minority ruin an entire website for everyone else just by existing. I'm not even going to keep trying to make my point, it'll just fall on deaf ears anyway.
They aren't a minority, not at this stage of the internet.
forum.nexusmods.com still works like it used to.
Though there is a valid point here... m.facebook.com vs facebook.com <- huge amounts of data, free hosting, no limits on viewing content, completely different sites and designs, able to download massive files (yes you can download your profile, all of it multiple times for no reason). unlimited 'private' messaging, voice chat, group chat, bunch of features, news feeds, following, friends, forums (in the form of a wall) and theyve been around for a similar length of time (they might be 5 years older, but this is a community of resource hackers, texture creators, configuration tweakers, ui developers, and coders - someone out there has to have a real solution.
This update is free mandatory dlc by the looks of it.
NeoNord wrote: Sorry, they are a minority, 18% according to Dark One, that is most definitely a minority, get your facts straight pacfish.pacfish wrote: I was replying to the comment not what Dark had said.
"once again", meaning it's happened to another site.
"They aren't...at this stage of the internet", meaning all of the internet, not the site.
18% on this site is pretty insane, and I used my phone for the first time to look at this thread through the link that was sent to my email. It takes me to the forum page. Which works fine on mobile and it's pretty easy to use. So I'm even more confused as to why mobile is even being considered for the main site's design unless the goal is to leave the forum site behind.Dark0ne wrote: I'm confused. What does the forum and mobile have to do with the redesign?calscks wrote: as a software engineer, i'm more than confused too. what's wrong making a site to be friendly on mobile? it's already one from "good web design principles 101" ages ago.bisexualzuko wrote: The issue is that this design makes it easier to use on mobile but harder to use on pc, despite this being a file sharing website for pc games. There's not really a need for a website intended to be used for pc file sharing to be mobile friendly, especially when it comes at the expense of ease of use on desk/laptop. -
In response to post #54799858. #54800528, #54805933, #54818428, #54818433, #54834513, #54841248, #54865923, #54869793, #54870233, #54872678, #54875248, #54875408, #54883598, #54892348, #54893388 are all replies on the same post.Speaking as a software engineer, a few crowds in nexusmods baffled me as well in the view of the fact that not only they're resistance to change, they have some sort of grudges against mobile lol. I am appalled when people who just blatantly assume that we don't access nexusmods via mobile. Being mobile-friendly is a perk for a website, not a tradeoff LMAO. it's true when someone says there's a part of this community is basically a bunch on whiny and self-centred kids. i'm sorry but what @mejoff has said sums up you all.vcgrant wrote: On first blush, I find it ironic, and a bit telling, that a web site that owes it's very existence to PC Games and its fans, optimize's it's web design for mobile platforms.Dark0ne wrote: Why is that ironic? A few people have commented on this and I've yet to have someone explain why it's silly to code a site with mobile optimisation in mind as part of the process.
18% of our traffic comes from mobile. A number that grows every single year as smartphone usage continues to rocket. It would be stupid to do a new design and not take that into account, just like it would be stupid to do a new design and not take in to account the 17% of people who browse the site using FireFox or the 5% who browse using Edge.
With your (and some other users') line of thinking, websites for console games should be most optimised for Televisions, because that's the platform on which you most play console games. Makes no sense, right? How you play your games has no relation to how you browse the internet and finding a happy medium for both desktop and mobile users, that can make both as happy as possible was, and still is, the most prudent course of action.Rigmor wrote: New site works great with the 0.0001% of "Brave" browser users :Pvcgrant wrote: It is ironic because the functionality that can be had with a web page optimized for a PC processor and graphics is much greater than any mobile platform. Most mobile sites in look and usability are about where computer platforms were in the earliest days of the Net. Most apps are dumbed down to enable them to run on mobile devices and any 3D depth has been lost to flattening everything out to make it smaller and quicker to load.
Bottom line from my perspective, this is a PC site., make it look and play as one.vcgrant wrote: Double PostSonja wrote: While it's very nice that people on mobiles can more easily window shop for mods, when they come to actually download (and install if they're using NMM) them, they will be doing so on PC.
As I have stated, the new layout has really started to grow on me after my initial apprehension; there is much that I like. However, in terms of PC functionality, it does need some tweaking.
Moreover, even if it's steadily growing, 18% doesn't comprise a majority. I'm abysmal at mathematics, but even I can calculate that much. While far too many comments here have been little more than pitchfork level incoherent wailing, gnashing of teeth or just generally rude, there has still been a lot of constructive feedback, and I really hope you guys take it under consideration before releasing a final version. Aside from the obvious benefits to those (the majority) on desktop, this would probably reduce alienation and toxicity dramatically.fireundubh wrote: Nearly 20% is a huge number of users. If you think that's trivial, I'd hate to see how you run your business.Karolus_ wrote: To be honest, that means the other 80% are PC and Mac users basically(80%>20%). The users that go here with the phone I bet do it basically when they want to interact within the community, being pms, forum, or commenting mods at most. Every other part, from uploading mods to images is done with a PC/MAC, and offcourse the part where you download mods. Being that the main site functionality is (as of now?) uploading and downloading mods, there is not "much" point in giving priority to phones. Most probably the ideal solution would be a phone version with a focus on the social part of the site, with the tile based UI, and a main version focused on PC/MAC and usability on mod uploading/downloading/managing with a more "conventional" UI. At this point this is probably an echo in the wind, as the launch is inminent, but food for thought.
fireundubh wrote: Mod users and mod creators together eek out a minority share of any game's player base. Should Bethesda, RED, etc., stop supporting mod users and creators? Maybe developers should make installing and create mods harder or impossible, so they can spend more time on features the majority of their players want? What's the point in building and updating systems and tools for mods when most players don't use them and don't care that they exist?
This is rhetorical and intended to illustrate why nobody competent, given the availability of the necessary resources, designs for a single audience.KasperSky44 wrote: When I'm on mobile I deliberately use desktop versions of websites wherever possible. The new layout is, functional, but looks terrible and clunky even on a 1080p screen. It seems foolish also to change something for 20% of a customer base, because chances are, it's going to alienate the actual majority. To be fair, I won't ever stop using nexus mods, but this push for everything to look "metro" makes everything look like a shitty gui in an early 2000's flash game.vcgrant wrote: "This is rhetorical and intended to illustrate why nobody competent, given the availability of the necessary resources, designs for a single audience. "
I agree in with the sentiment. However, in practice the site is not designed to be 25% mobile friendly, vs. 75% PC friendly. To make it work for mobile platforms, you need to program the entire site entirely for mobile platforms. In essence, doing exactly what you are advocating against, i.e. only designing for a single audience.fireundubh wrote: "To make it work for mobile platforms, you need to program the entire site entirely for mobile platforms."
Speaking as a web developer, that's not true at all. The new site could look exactly like the old site and still be responsive, and you'd have no complaints because your desktop experience would be unchanged. Your actual criticism is you just don't like the way the new site looks, and that's purely aesthetic and non-constructive feedback, as is "the old site is better," which it is objectively not and will thankfully never be seen again.
Instead of advocating against serving 18% of the site's audience, which is a nonstarter, why not share your ideas about how to improve the new experience? Now is the time to provide that kind of feedback. And, by the way, if you don't like larger UI elements and larger fonts for whatever reason, your browser provides a zoom feature, and if you're inclined, you can use the Stylish and Tampermonkey extensions to reshape and restyle the site to suit your particular preferences.Dark0ne wrote: Let's break down some stats:
70% of visitors to Nexus Mods use Chrome
17% use FireFox
5% use Edge
3.5% use Opera
Because every browser renders HTML and CSS differently, when designing and making the site we need to take in to account how the site looks on all those browsers and ensure it works and looks right on all of them. Case in point, we made a change to the font weight recently which looked fine in Chrome, but definitely not as good in FireFox or Edge.
Because Chrome is the most popular browser by far, should we simply ignore how the site looks in the other browsers people might use and say "oh well, you should just use Chrome"?
Of course we shouldn't.
As such, we have to code with all the above browsers in mind.
This is exactly how it works with mobile too. In the same way that we code with FireFox, Edge and others in mind, we now also have to think with mobile in mind. It's not that mobile takes precedence, it's that it has to be considered, just like all the other options.
If you don't think we should code with mobile in mind you must also think we should not code with FireFox or Edge in mind, which is obviously silly. People need to change their thinking on this one and adapt to the changes in how internet content is being viewed -- like we have.mejoff wrote: What a bunch of whinging f*#@s you are.
Waaahwaahwaah this site caters to me AND other people! Why can't it cater JUST FOR ME!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
SELLOUTS!demonofsarila wrote: It is a certain sort of irony, a site about mods for PC, meaning the users have and use PC, being totally re-made to work with phones. But there's multiple use cases for phones: looking up something about a mod on your phone while the game is on your pc, browsing about mods on your phone at work and picking ones to download later when you get home, if you're a mod author posting replies to questions about your mod while you're waiting somewhere without your pc, etc. I mean I keep my ipad nearby for fallout 4 because of the mobile app link thing.
That said I'm not a fan of the new UI. Though to be fair, the old one has major issues and I don't know if I'd say I care for it either. The site has the mods, so I deal with the site UI long enough to get what I want and get back to the game, and I'm ok with this arrangement.
Though, vcgrant, you do realize just because a site is optimized for mobile devices, that doesn't really effect desktop performance, right? It doesn't mean catering the site to work only on phones, it means making sure the site isn't crap on phones. The site was already optimized for desktops, and will still be optimized for desktops too.fireundubh wrote: You want irony? A community that loves to change things has members who hate when things change. -
In response to post #54735783. #54750263, #54754653, #54756533 are all replies on the same post.as a software engineer, i'm more than confused too. what's wrong making a site to be friendly on mobile? it's already one from "good web design principles 101" ages ago.pacfish wrote:
Once again, the mobile minority ruin an entire website for everyone else just by existing. I'm not even going to keep trying to make my point, it'll just fall on deaf ears anyway.
They aren't a minority, not at this stage of the internet.
forum.nexusmods.com still works like it used to.
Though there is a valid point here... m.facebook.com vs facebook.com <- huge amounts of data, free hosting, no limits on viewing content, completely different sites and designs, able to download massive files (yes you can download your profile, all of it multiple times for no reason). unlimited 'private' messaging, voice chat, group chat, bunch of features, news feeds, following, friends, forums (in the form of a wall) and theyve been around for a similar length of time (they might be 5 years older, but this is a community of resource hackers, texture creators, configuration tweakers, ui developers, and coders - someone out there has to have a real solution.
This update is free mandatory dlc by the looks of it.
NeoNord wrote: Sorry, they are a minority, 18% according to Dark One, that is most definitely a minority, get your facts straight pacfish.pacfish wrote: I was replying to the comment not what Dark had said.
"once again", meaning it's happened to another site.
"They aren't...at this stage of the internet", meaning all of the internet, not the site.
18% on this site is pretty insane, and I used my phone for the first time to look at this thread through the link that was sent to my email. It takes me to the forum page. Which works fine on mobile and it's pretty easy to use. So I'm even more confused as to why mobile is even being considered for the main site's design unless the goal is to leave the forum site behind.Dark0ne wrote: I'm confused. What does the forum and mobile have to do with the redesign? -
In response to post #54759353.as well as the "user area" page. well since this is just an alpha release (i presume), let's say they have plans to do all these.slvsaris wrote:
Still missing the recent activity page. The old one was quick and simple, I looked at it most everyday to see what was new and updated, all on one page going back for as long as you wanted to go back.
EDIT: oops, they have integrated the user area with the settings page. well...i'm okay with that. -
Nice redesign, but my only problem is the lack of "user area" section offered in the old site.
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bump. it seems like nobody can fix this...gotta try disabling all mods and create a new game and see.
HAHA I found the real culprit. all because I couldn't read the description. if anyone who downloaded dave's poses, remember not to download the daveposes.ini under optional files because it contains bPipboyDisableFX=1 LOL
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i know this is old, but i have the same issue too, without even using satellite world map mod.
the same goes to terminal. from what i've noticed, they're missing scanlines. maybe it's missing a mask? i've tried setting the disablefx to 0 on all 3 inis, and even manually setting the R/G/B colour of pipboy. huh...
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The devil whispered in my ear "You're not strong enough to withstand the storm. "
Today I whispered in the Devil's ear "I am the storm."
Free modding will never die.
you're goddamn right.
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According to my math, when you buy from the Creation Club marketplace, at worst you pay $1.07 per 100 cc and at best $.73 per 100cc.
At the best value, the Enclave Armor is worth $3.65 which means that the five original Power Armors in the base game "must" be worth a collective total of $18.25, representing almost 1/3 of the game's original $60 price tag.
Now since there are about 29 unique weapons in the original base game, and the "new" Gauss Rifle costs 400cc ($2.92 at the best rate) that means that the 29 original weapons represent....$84.68 worth of content?
Those were some interesting numbers. I used them to come up with some more interesting numbers. We know that Creation Club is a wage-based system, and we have no idea what those wages are ("better than minimum wage in Sweden" is not a helpful hint, because Sweden hasn't got a minimum wage.) But let's just be sort of generous and assume these creators get paid an hourly wage or stipend equivalent to $25 USD per hour. Let's also be generous and say that it took a creator an entire 40-hour workweek (someone who knows what they're doing won't take that long, but that's beside the point) to produce the Enclave Armor. This gives our hypothetical creator a nicely-rounded compensation of of $1000 USD for creating this suit of power armor. He'd be making way more money if he got even a 1% royalty, but $1000 for a week's work in this industry is bad either and I'm not here to discuss the pros and cons of wage vs royalty. Moving on:
At $3.65 per purchase, this totally-not-a-mod will have paid off its own labour costs after just 274 people purchase it. If a meagre one thousand people (for reference, the Nexus version of Enclave Armor has 176,000 unique downloads) purchase the mod, then Bethesda will have a profit of $2,650. But one thousand, in Bethesda sales terms, is an unrealistically tiny amount of sales. Last I heard, Fallout4 had sold 23 million copies, and 1000 people is just .004% of all Fallout 4 owners. If 1% of Fallout 4 owners (230,000 people) buy the armor, then Bethesda will come just short of making JUST SHY OF A MILLION DOLLARS off a stupid little power armor that they paid somebody $1000 to make.
Now let's change the numbers a little. If the power armor cost something reasonable, like one dollar, and just 1% of Fallout 4 owners bought it, they would still be making nearly a quarter of a million dollars selling a suit of power armor. If they sold it for just fifty cents they'd still be making--you guessed it--a lot of money. If they sold it for literally one cent, a sum of money so minute that coinage representing it is a bane to economic efficiency, it would still almost definitely sell enough copies to pay itself off several times over.
Make of these numbers with you will.
absolutely. when CC is released, i keep thinking that bethesda is exploiting the modders for their business. oh well, that's how business works i get that.
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Wait what?
I thought only F4SE had to be updated.
Now most of these mods are broken and will take months for modders to fix them?
Most of those new updates are already in place, or will be soon. All of the plugins i use with f4se is anyways. The issue is if Beth releases yet another patch with content and changes to the exe next week. That would be the absolutely worst, and a very real threat. Goodbye f4se as you know it.
Bethesda could have had a dynamic system that didn't need to require updates per new content released.
There is simply no reason to have all these "mods" automatically download to my harddrive.
hey lord tony, remember me? the steam forum is now a mess, fighting with each other because of CC. again you were right about the drones and sheep circulating around bethesda and form a shield to protect the company.
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my game is still broken even after update
hey lord tony, nice to meet you here! you were right about the drones.
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HEY CREATION CLUB.... NICE MODS PHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahah
TOP WORK GUYS.
But seriously now, even a bunch of spastic monkeys could of come up a better release than that horse manuer.
My god, after 3 videos on youtube roasting the hell out of this shitty club, where even youtubers that usually praise bethesda and now ridicule it, EX: Gopther sort of supported the idea of the CC but now he is more triggered than i've ever seen him, I just cant stop laughing.
I know i should be mad that they try to pull this s*** on us, but i just cant help but feel satisfied about this outcome.
CONGRATZ BETHESDA, YOU GUYS ARE JUST FACKING EPIC! PHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhahahahahahahahahahahah :laugh:
Also to all you who so desperately defended creation club in the previous posts, Consider this Release as a FACK YOU from Bethesda :tongue:
lmao
when reality crushes expectations
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Hey, just tested this out.
I was able to launch the game through F4SE after cancelling the download completely and setting the automatic updates to "Only update this game when I launch it" as mentioned before.
However, it is important that you launch steam first, since running F4SE when steam hasn't started causes it to launch the game normally and trigger the update.
yeah, i can verify that it works. i launched F4SE through NMM and it works like a charm
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Set steam setting to "Only update this game when I launch it" and launch the game through F4SE.exe file. If you launching the game through steam or default laucher it will force update.
so this is confirmed to be working? i don't feel like risking it now...and i feel like playing fo4 now
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some even started to spew craps like:
"Bethesda is the intellectual property owner not Nexus. Downloading mods is the same as stealing. I dont have to like it, but i do understand it."
"Nexus quality sucks, creation club is more worth it.""Modders abandon projects, have low quality textures, and are copying Bethesda with their tools. Robin Scott should be sent to court by zenimax"
lmao
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The Fallout 4 steam forum is crazy about this CC thing now, like exploding. There are a few who defended CC, some trying to stay abstain and justify the CC while being regarded as white knights or bethesdrones, and most are literally against it while going all bananas and started ranting like nuts.
EDIT: i'm patiently waiting for F4SE update now....hope that after the update none of my mods would be broken.
An update on Vortex development
in Site Updates
Posted · Edited by calscks
i don't support dismissing your opinion even if you aren't a supporter or premium, but we'd refute an opinion if it's more or less unfitting in this case. one year of development isn't even long especially when it's an in-house development, and giving out sneak peeks is completely optional. making/writing your own programme doesn't satisfy any conditions of being one complete software development cycle, so most arguments about you not knowing how a real software engineering works is completely relevant. yes you didn't say anything against tannin, you merely gave too much credits to him instead of the whole development team. to sum up you just thought developing a software is as magical as could be magically done by a single person in a short period of time, moreover when the software itself would involve connection to servers such as app and file server while supporting another dozens of games, then proceed to say that vortex development is delayed due to "unnecessary redesign" while the site owner has already cleared it up by saying those are handled by 2 different development teams...really makes me wonder.