FlashyJoer

Even then, when you upload a mod, there is a MIRRORS section, where is says: So, it is a thing and it is within the guidelines, since it is Nexus themselves that provides this function, and you are absolutely right. :smile: That said, I am not sure if this is a safe/wise thing to do, in case it exposes the offsite mod to the API and modpacks, for those that do not wish to be in a modpack with their stuff.

I cant speak to anyone else's reasons, but I am one such person and I can speak to my own personal reasons/thoughts here. 1) I have nearly 20 unpaid voice actors who have worked in my mods, to the tune of nearly 10,000 lines of dialogue. How they are "paid" is having a reference to refer potential clients to. Their demo reels and their CVs reference this site and those mods specifically. Removing them would be akin to taking that work for free and crapping all over them as repayment. And this one, though some might not grasp the necessity or importance of it, this is the BIGGEST consideration for why I personally have not done a "nuke all" email. 2) The mods are there - I dont want to make any more ripples and toxicity than already exists. Since I cannot remove them, per #1, that does not mean I have to support or update them here and lose digital rights to those mods on future revisions. Instead of completely removing what exists and frustrating users all the more, I will simply leave them there. If "curators" choose to include them in their lists, there is nothing I can do about that, aside from posting on my mods to say, look, this is not the most current version, it is unsupported and might have bugs or inter-mod conflicts that will never be resolved unless you update to the current version which is now available offsite. At least the user is then able to make a choice and can go where directed to get at the latest build manually (Captcha will be used to block direct API access to those files, to prevent modpack curators from circumventing me moving off Nexus for such things as a result of the changes here). There is already enough toxicity in this schism. For me, not removing them is simple. For others, I have no idea. It is far easier on the veins in your arse, to avoid hemorrhoids and unneeded stress, to just say, "they made that choice, I made this choice and if you want the best versions of these mods going fowards, here is where they will be". You know?

I mean, lets say it straight without the BS... As a user, people certainly have the right to feel the way they want about not being able to get the mods they love, now that they are either gone or no longer being updated, that they will be abandoned here. They have every right to feel something about that. They even have the right to an opinion on Nexus' decisions and actions. What they do not have, is a right to to tell mod authors that they are wrong or mistaken or whining, entitled cry babies. Because here's the thing - until someone has actively contributed to this community with their own personal time, energy, knowledge and in some case, personal money, in order to produce a mod and give freely to the community, until they have done THAT and given more than just a download or an endorsement, they have no right to tell a mod author anything about who they think the mod author is or how they should be feeling or reacting to the situation at hand. Doing so only shows just how entitled one feels in having a right to the mod author's time, energy, knowledge and in some cases, personal money. And if people cannot see this, then they are every bit as much of the problem as they purport the mod authors are (when really they are not). THAT is just a fact. Another is, we, the affected mod authors, we nothing to anyone. And for folks to illustrate otherwise, through their veiled (or outright) entitlement, throughout all of this bru-ha-ha, well, is it any wonder that the schism is getting larger and larger??? Think it through - this is not rocket science. Do like my supporters have been - thank your fav mod authors for their time and talent, for making your game more enjoyable and ask them to keep you updated on where they will be in the future, so that you will be able to find updates to their mods, or new ones that they have released. Kindness, respect and gratitude go a lot further in reducing the schism than entitlement and toxicity. :smile:

Not my concern what mods you do or do not use (though I wonder how boring your game must be not to have any of the AAA mods installed). The point was and will continue to be, the aggregate sum of knowledge that is leaving here from the FO4 section at the least, and that is literally an immeasurable loss. For everyone, not just you. {edited for formatting}

Mod authors come and go in any event. Some stick around. Some seem like permanent fixtures. :smile: Others, are just a flash in the pan, upload a mod, then disappear. Nexus is likely counting on new modders coming along to replace those that left. Will they have comparable skillsets? Remains to be seen. Skillsets, yes. But do they also have "name value"? Do they have the right network of "collaborators", like voice actors or other artists. There are a LOT of considerations to this one and each one is just as important as what skills they possess (or learn). True, they may come, sure, but how long will it take to be at a level that can truly replace that which has been lost? That is the real question, yeah, you hit it on the head.

Like me, mods will remain as is, why hurt our users by removing them? Just no new updates here.

I cannot speak for any other game here, aside from Fallout 4. But that said, I can tell you that the TOP knowledge modders are gone. The ones that make the CORE of any mod list. There are literally only 1 or 2 people remaining or plan to continue to update their mods, that are at the highest level. It took me 4 years to get to that level, to be among what others would cite, among the best modders ever for a Fallout game... do you imagine that the users are going to want to wait four or so years for someone to get to that level? I know how this sounds, I do, but it is just a simple fact - the ones with ALL of the knowledge, the ones who make the mods that are core to virtually all Fallout players, they (we) are mostly all gone as a result of this. And that hurts the Fallout 4 community as a whole in terms of the kinds of mods users can expect in the future - which is to say texture replacers, CBBE body presets and looksmenu presets. Gone are the SKK-series of mods. Gone are the CWSS mods. Gone are the Gun For Hire/Crime and Punishment/Advanced Needs2 mods. Gone are the combined Thuggyverse of mods. And the list goes on and on... New users can only generate so many clicks and new modders will take years to get up to the level of the talent that is leaving or already left, you know? Its crappy to say, it sounds utterly arrogant on my part to say what I have about myself, but its just a simple truth, as ugly as it sounds. The brain drain is a real thing and it will take quite some time, at least for Fallout 4, to recover to where it was 4-6 short weeks ago.

Mod authors need simply stop updating their mods here and post those updates elsewhere. Nexus may claim infinite rights to the binaries in their database and be able to use them in the modpacks, but it we stop updating here and post updates elsewhere, those binaries are now different AND they are not on Nexus servers, so they will have NO rights to include them in their modpack lists. And if they do use them, we have legal ground to do something about it, because they refused us the means to opt out and removed our ability to remove our mods, and then to go and circumvent all of that to use OFF-Nexus mods hosted elsewhere, that are not within their "rights"? No no.. that would be very bad for them. Mod authors actually do have the power here and we can exercise it. Nexus may win round one with all of this stuff, but in the long run, they've shot themselves in the foot. Literally. Users follow mod authors, not the site. And if the updates to their favourite mods are elsewhere... not hard to intuit what comes after that, right? what would happen if a mod author uploaded an update to their mod that didn't cripple the mod, but simply gave you a bit of the mod - with some sort of readme file packaged that said if you like what you've seen of this mod - you can download the full version at <download link>. i don't think such a thing breaks any rules does it? the mod works - it just doesn't give you everything up front? In this instance, I dont really know. As a mod author, I wouldnt want to do that to users. Make them go here and there and everywhere to get the pieces to make a mod work. I dont think anyone would like to do that. This issue is NOT about mod authors crapping on the user and we, the ones I know of anyone, are not interested in doing that. Our quarrel is with policies, not with the mod using community. Its really far better to either request deletion before end of deadline or leave the mods there that are there and just never update them again (here) and only release updates elsewhere, where Nexus' API will not have the rights to pull it (especially if they are behind a Captcha). i was thinking more as a reaction to this "you cant delete your stuff" rule. okay so i can't delete my stuff, but i can put up a version that can't be deleted, but simply points people to where the updated files will be found. mind you, you could do that with the addition of a readme file that says the same thing i suppose. just saying that "the version you just downloaded is no longer supported, if you want the latest/greatest version of my work go to ...." that way no-one gets messed about - aside from this place which seems to specialise in messing everyone about to suit their own agenda. You aren't wrong, that can totally be done. But the issue I have with this is that there are still places and people in the world who pay for downloads or have caps, that once exceeded, they need to pay extra. Id rather not incur wasted time and money on people, personally. And really, having hostility about the state of affairs with Nexus is ... I mean, we're all hot blooded about it now, but in the long run, it is what it is. There is no point in being toxic about it. They made a decision and as a result certain mod authors made one of their own. Its far simpler just to kindly put notices at the top of the description page and the discussions tab and maybe even on the main download itself that says, this mod is no longer supported on Nexus, go to 'x' to get the latest version(s). That way its everywhere where a person could see it and make an informed decision on whether to do so or not. The key is, for mod authors, treat the user like an adult, a friend possibly. Its not their fault that things are the way they are. Show them respect and in turn, they will respect you. And if not, well, that is their issue, not the authors, nor the site, right? Really, at the end of the day, it all boils down to "it is what it is". A choice was made and for certain folks, that carried a consequence of wanting to move elsewhere. No need to take that out on anyone. Just do what you feel you need to do and carry on - there are more important things in life than toxicity over a website, that when you're on your deathbed, you wont even have a single thought for. Right? We are just doing what we feel we need to do to protect our rights and in response to decisions that were made, that we feel, were made without proper respect to us, the people who actually create the content that gives this site its purpose. No need to make the users suffer, none at all. That doesnt mean we cannot take steps to protect our work elsewhere from being exploited by those that made these decisions here, ala ensuring they are protected and cannot be used in their API to update the mods that they've claimed rights to per their TOS. But for sure, within that act of moving and protecting our rights, there is no need for the user to have to suffer as a result, aside from having to visit some other website to get the mods they want. Which, lets be honest, happens every day, to nearly every user. Whether on LoversLab, ModDB, Beth.net or the hundreds of Discord servers that exist. Just my $0.02 as one of the affected mod authors that will move newer versions of my binaries elsewhere that will no longer be under the "rights" and TOS of Nexus. What is here will remain here - not going to punish any user by removing them - simply, they will be version updated to be completely different than what is hosted here and they will be posted elsewhere so that they are 100% outside of the TOS of Nexusmods and I have full rights over their use. it really is that simple. And I think that Nexus admins would respect that view - all done without the toxicity that has created this schism between Nexus admins, users and mod authors alike. If you dont like the rules, you dont have to play the game, as the saying goes.

Not true. Well, not for mod authors that actually *know* what they are doing.

In thi Mod authors need simply stop updating their mods here and post those updates elsewhere. Nexus may claim infinite rights to the binaries in their database and be able to use them in the modpacks, but it we stop updating here and post updates elsewhere, those binaries are now different AND they are not on Nexus servers, so they will have NO rights to include them in their modpack lists. And if they do use them, we have legal ground to do something about it, because they refused us the means to opt out and removed our ability to remove our mods, and then to go and circumvent all of that to use OFF-Nexus mods hosted elsewhere, that are not within their "rights"? No no.. that would be very bad for them. Mod authors actually do have the power here and we can exercise it. Nexus may win round one with all of this stuff, but in the long run, they've shot themselves in the foot. Literally. Users follow mod authors, not the site. And if the updates to their favourite mods are elsewhere... not hard to intuit what comes after that, right? what would happen if a mod author uploaded an update to their mod that didn't cripple the mod, but simply gave you a bit of the mod - with some sort of readme file packaged that said if you like what you've seen of this mod - you can download the full version at <download link>. i don't think such a thing breaks any rules does it? the mod works - it just doesn't give you everything up front? In this instance, I dont really know. As a mod author, I wouldnt want to do that to users. Make them go here and there and everywhere to get the pieces to make a mod work. I dont think anyone would like to do that. This issue is NOT about mod authors crapping on the user and we, the ones I know of anyone, are not interested in doing that. Our quarrel is with policies, not with the mod using community. Its really far better to either request deletion before end of deadline or leave the mods there that are there and just never update them again (here) and only release updates elsewhere, where Nexus' API will not have the rights to pull it (especially if they are behind a Captcha).

Mod authors need simply stop updating their mods here and post those updates elsewhere. Nexus may claim infinite rights to the binaries in their database and be able to use them in the modpacks, but it we stop updating here and post updates elsewhere, those binaries are now different AND they are not on Nexus servers, so they will have NO rights to include them in their modpack lists. And if they do use them, we have legal ground to do something about it, because they refused us the means to opt out and removed our ability to remove our mods, and then to go and circumvent all of that to use OFF-Nexus mods hosted elsewhere, that are not within their "rights"? No no.. that would be very bad for them. Mod authors actually do have the power here and we can exercise it. Nexus may win round one with all of this stuff, but in the long run, they've shot themselves in the foot. Literally. Users follow mod authors, not the site. And if the updates to their favourite mods are elsewhere... not hard to intuit what comes after that, right? Wabbajack has the ability to interact with many different websites, to download mods. I do not know all the ins and outs of the system, I am just aware that it has that ability. True. However, if you have built an optin/optout for Wabbajack inclusion and have a captcha running at time of download, NO api is going to be able to download your mod via a list. There are ways to do this to prevent anyone from modlisting/modpacking offsite mods. ;)

Yet.

Mod authors need simply stop updating their mods here and post those updates elsewhere. Nexus may claim infinite rights to the binaries in their database and be able to use them in the modpacks, but it we stop updating here and post updates elsewhere, those binaries are now different AND they are not on Nexus servers, so they will have NO rights to include them in their modpack lists. And if they do use them, we have legal ground to do something about it, because they refused us the means to opt out and removed our ability to remove our mods, and then to go and circumvent all of that to use OFF-Nexus mods hosted elsewhere, that are not within their "rights"? No no.. that would be very bad for them. Mod authors actually do have the power here and we can exercise it. Nexus may win round one with all of this stuff, but in the long run, they've shot themselves in the foot. Literally. Users follow mod authors, not the site. And if the updates to their favourite mods are elsewhere... not hard to intuit what comes after that, right?

I don't think the scripts are actually recompiled, per se, but the debug code gets "stripped out" of the pex file (using Bethesda's terminology). IIRC, you either get the opportunity to edit the list of files that goes into the BA2 (you can actually save/load a custom list), or I *think* you might be able to select an already built PC mod and have it converted (it's been several years since I last uploaded to Beth.net, so I might be remembering wrong). However, you do get to control what files get bundled into the BA2 :smile: The archiving process not only changes the scripts, it does other stuff like automatically convert wav sound files to xwm format. This is very good information to know! Thanks for providing it. Now begins the tedious process of converting all debug.notification and debug.messagebox code from my scripts to use message forms and .show() instead. :smile:

Well.....that's news that I'm not glad to hear. So for those who are still running older versions of the game... can we open up mods that were made in the newer version of the CK, make a change to the esp, save it in Xedit, change it back, then resave it again to get rid of the CK version restriction? Or is there a way to clean it in Xedit? If you are running an older version of the game's exe and the mod(s) you have installed have been created or updated using the newer ESP/ESM container (v1.0 spec) in the new version of the CK, the answer is no, they will not work at all. You either need to update to latest game exe or never update your mods or download new ones. Sad... all of this headache just so creation club could have access to 8000 forms in the ESL format. [smh]