nognow
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Posts posted by nognow
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I can't find any in-game effects to these settings in GECK/FNVedit.
The only thing that matters seems to be animation length.
I tried extending "reload time" to match slower reload animations so jam animations play smoothly and don't cut in mid reload, but nothing changed.
Do they do anything at all, and is there a way to delay jam animations?
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I'm not an animator, but here is how *I* interpret such file names, using "2HRhandgrip4_shotgun.kf" as an example without actually digging into the file itself. (This is VERY superficial and the actual details probably are different. If some mod creator like hitman has a definitive explanation, I will turn it into a wiki article entry someplace.)
* "2H" indicates the animation depicts a "two handed" grip on the weapon. (This usually means a "rifle".)
* "R" indicates it is a "rifle" (or possibly a "revolver") grip. Not certain just from the file name how that is different from an "a" grip, but the latter might be "automatic pistol" (e.g. the ".45") which is straighter than the more curved "revolver pistol" grip (e.g. the "Police .38").
* "hand" indicates the "trigger" hand is placed on a "pistol grip" shaped rear stock. This is different from the grip shape where the hand rests in a straight line along the stock, such as on the Winchester lever action rifle.
* "grip4" indicates this is the 4th different variation of this basic grip version. Likely you will need to experiment with each variation to determine which is the best "fit". Here is where I would expect differences in the gap between the thumb and forefingers around the forestock in your original image.
Everything after the "_" is indeed a general description as to the sort of weapon it was created to work with (e.g. "_shotgun" in this example). Just because it says "plasmarifle" does not mean it could not be used with a projectile weapon with similar shape characteristics. But the basic hand positioning is based upon that required of the "plasma rifle", and "energy" weapons fire a different type of "projectile" so that would also be different. The underscore ("_") connects both parts of the filename into a single valid filename. (A "space" would be treated as two different files, and fail to find either.) So the part after the "_" is still a crucial part of the filename distinguishing one from another.
Renaming those files will break other mods expecting those same file names. If you meant "copy and rename", then that is fine, but your new file will only be used where you have it defined in the "mesh" NIF file using a "relative" file path, as described in the wiki article "How to fix hard-coded texture paths in NIF files" for the procedure to locate the texture (and animation) file entry within NifSkope. (The path needs to be "relative" instead of "absolute"/"hard-coded" in order to be found on various installation locations, which is what many editors default to and that article covers.) The file also has to be in the expected folder.
-Dubious-
Does that mean that each weapon can have an individual grip animation in addition to the “global” grip animation? I mean that there can be more than one 2HRhandgrip4; let's say 2HRhandgrip4_shotgun and 2HRhandgrip4_BBgun, and the weapon's NIF specifies the correct one?
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It's a "clipping" issue between the standard hand and the weapon forestock artwork. The "hand" portion is part of the attack/reloading animation, which the weapon mesh has to fit into (AFAIK; I'm not a modeller). To correct, you will need to replace one or the other. At any rate it is not something you can fix without replacing some portion of the "artwork assets". I'm guessing you are using a replacement of that "service rifle" from the vanilla version? If so, try another.
The animations for each type of weapon are standardized to general "types" such as "2hand" or "1hand" plus '<action>'. You can find the animations ".kf" files under the "Data\Meshes\characters\_1stperson" folder.
-Dubious-
thanks!
the grip animations .kf files are super confusing.
shooting and reloading animations are fairly straightforward (1hareloada = 1 handed automatic reload a...)
but with grips, it doesn't make sense. In Asurahs pack for example, there are files like 2hahandgrip1_plasmarifle.kf and 2HRhandgrip4_shotgun.kf.
the gun name after the _ corresponds to the .nif file name? or is anything after the _ completely meaningless and simply serves as a note to the user?
I tried to mess around with those files by renaming, disabling,... but couldn't find out the logic behind it.
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any way to fix this grip animation clipping?: it's driving me insane
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Is there a program to select files/a file and rename them to something like .bak and back?
for example, I have a lot of .dll mod files in Fallout NV folder and I want to figure out which plugin\plugin combination causes my game to crash.
Currently, I have to manually disable and enable each file by adding a .bak or something like that and back which is very tedious.
I wish I could just select the files, right click, rename to bak/restore.
thanks!
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I'm trying to figure out how to create new animation entries other than the vanilla ReloadA ReloadB Attack7 ... because a few weapon retextures/remeshes require Asurah's animations but the rest of my weapon mods aren't compatible with them. so I figured to somehow create a new animation entry to use as a one-off. any idea how to do so?
Thanks!
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You basically have to make a new station from scratch which involes scripting, questing, object references, radio templates, etc. Its actually on the more advanced site. Best advise I can give is too take a look at the questing scripts for Radio New Vegas and Mojave Radio and try to copy them somehow.
yeah I'm going to try to do that, but with 800+ songs, it'll probably be a nightmare. Is there a way to make GECK work with mp3 instead of WAV?
Long story short, if you don't own the content or have permission to use it, your mod will get removed.
that's what I feared. but there are plenty of radio stations on Nexus with copywritten music right? how are they managing? (not going to name any as to not get them in trouble)
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I'm all set to script a new radio station with more than 8-0-0 vanilla-friendly songs. I'm all done meticulously leveling and matching dynamic ranges, converting to game-supported formats etc.
but I don't know how to program the actual esp for it. Radio Active Channel Extender only goes up to 500, and I can't figure out how to make Extended NV Radio Generator esp become a new radio station without Mr New Vegas and all that. How should I modify the Extended NV Radio Generator esp? also, in regards to copyrights and DMCAs, should I worry about the content getting removed or claimed?
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I apologize. Yes, "Foot", not "Leg".
Also, according to NVTF's author:
Solution #1:
Make sure that your in-game framerate is capped below 120 FPS. Better use some fps counter to double check if it really is below 120.
Solution #2:
That is a trade off between player foot dynamic placement efficiency and the absence of foot bouncing glitches for NPCs. It eliminates NPCs bouncing glitches almost entirely, but also makes player dynamic foot placement work slightly worse.
Set these lines in [FootIK] section using either "FalloutPrefs.ini" or "FalloutCustom.ini" to the following values:
fOnOffGain=0.01
bFootPlacementOn=0
fPelvisUpDownBias=0
fPelvisOffsetDamping=0
fOriginalGroundHeightMS=0
Solution #3:
[RagdollAnim]
bFootIK = 0
Try capping your framerate to something lower than 120 fps.
Added as 'Issue - Bobbing NPCs' to the "Graphics Problems" section of the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" article.
-Dubious-
Capping the framerate doesn't help (I had already done it), disabling bFootPlacementOn did the trick; no need to touch the rest.
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No idea how to fix it, but you can disable Leg IK in the Fallout.ini. Search for the "Leg" and you'll find it.
However, by disabling that, actors will no longer adapt their leg position to the terrain.
I just looked through all INI files, there are no entries with the word "leg"
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Is your framerate over 60 fps?
The more your framerate is above 60 fps, the more likely you'll see this problem.
that's indeed the culprit.
lowering the refresh rate to 60 did the trick.
but I don't want to loose out on half my fps, any known fix to this?
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Is your framerate over 60 fps?
The more your framerate is above 60 fps, the more likely you'll see this problem.
yes, it is.
capped at 119 with Gsync.
I'll play around with various fps and vsync settings and update.
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All NPCs start to bob up and down whenever I look at them from close range. Zooming in on them causes it from any distance.
In the video, I'm obviously using mods, but I tried vanilla (with the exception of NVSE related mods) and it's the same thing
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What good would FNVedit be if it allowed you to do something that would completely mess up the ESP?
There's a reason programs don't let you change certain things
I should clarify that this isn't the change I'm having trouble changing, this is just an example; I tried to recreate the error.
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Why doesn't FNVedit let you change some mod parameters?
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The fundamental issue addressed in that "body replacer" reference is that of "head" textures found in EXP files will cause skin texture problems just because they are not in an ESM file. This is a quirk of the game engine. It is not "gender specific". I spotted at least two additional mods ("Better Posture" and "Cataract Eyes" in your list with the potential to cause the problem) solely based upon their plugin name.
As you are using Mod Organizer as your manager, try just removing suspect mods one at a time from the current "profile" and following the 'Mod Conflict Isolation' section of the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" article.
-Dubious-
seems to be vanilla and not just heads, here is Ghost with all mods disabled
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Do you have a NPC Body replacer installed? If so, please see "Issue - Body Replacer - Custom Race skin mismatch" under the "Graphics" section of the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" article.
-Dubious-
Only a male body replacer (Breeze)
Complete mod list:
# This file was automatically generated by Mod Organizer.
+Interior Lighting Overhaul
+URWLNV
+URWLNV Ultimate Edition for Fallout New Vegas - v2.0
-Nevada Skies
-SplashDamageArmorPack
-RWL Tweaked
-Nevada Skies Classic
+NV Compatibility Skeleton
+Content - Conflict Resolution FOMOD
+Brave New World Comp
+Content - Merge
+Universal Pip-Boy Customization
+Consistent Pip-Boy Icons
+Content - Finish Line_separator
+Extended Radio
+Mojave Music Radio - Extended
+Passive Combat Music Tweaked
+Immersive Pickup Sounds
+All Explosion Sounds Overhaul
+All Weapon Sounds Overhaul
+Audio_separator
+Burden to Bear - Original
+Baddarkl Perk Overhaul
+Improved Traits
+FNV Opposite Traits
+Perks_separator
+Vault 22 Flora Overhaul
+Beyond The Beef Tweaks
+Mojave Raiders - The Living Desert Patch
+The Living Desert
+Functional Post Game Ending
+The Moon Comes Over The Tower - Restored
+Cut Sewers Restored
+Uncut Wasteland
+Content_separator
+Gameplay - Conflict Resolution FOMOD
+Cyberware 2281
+Simple Explosive Entry
+Custom Health and AP Visuals
+Project Nevada - Enhanced Vision
+NPCs use Aid items
+Stat Choices
+Vicious Wastes Standalone Mechanics
+Starting Gear Overhaul
+Character Creation Streamlined
+Dead Money Toxic Cloud Fix
+Recharger Rifle Rebalance with Scope Mod
+Honest Hearts Workbench Crate Luck
+Better NCR Supply Cache
+Bypass Minigames - Lockpick and Hacking
+Better Posture
+Gameplay Misc_separator
+Universal Item Sorter
+GRA Unique Weapons Relocated
+Super Mutant Overhaulord
+Alternative Repairing
+Just Mods Assorted
+B42 Quickthrow
+VNV Follower Tweaks
+JIP Companions Command and Control
+Qolore Gameplay Tweaks
+Yukichigai Gameplay Tweaks
+Melee Cleave (a.k.a. Sweep)
+Ammo Count Memory
+Real Recoil
+NPCs Sprint In Combat
+Ragdolls and Bleed Compatibility
+BLEED Addendum
+BLEED
+Mechanics_separator
+Follower Tweaks
+Mojave Raiders Addendum
+Mojave Raiders - .22LR Varmint Rifle Patch
+Mojave Raiders
+Mojave Wildlife
+JSawyer Ultimate Edition - Mojave Arsenal Patch
+JSawyer Ultimate - Mojave Raiders Patch
+Mojave Arsenal
+Economy Overhaul Addendum
+Economy Overhaul
+JSawyer Ultimate Edition - Ragdolls
+JSUE Addendum
+Gameplay - Merge
+JSawyer Ultimate Edition
+Gameplay_separator
-Visuals - Conflict Resolution FOMOD
+Visuals - Finish Line_separator
+Enhanced Terrain LOD
+FNVLODGen Output
+FNV NMC-Beuno LOD Texture Patch
+Much Needed LOD
+Less Horrendous Vikki and Vance Casino LOD Mesh
+LOD additions and improvements
+FNVLODGen
+LOD_separator
+Enhanced Grass No VL
+BC2
+Burning Campfire Redone
+The Mogul Mausoleum - A Lucky 38 Overhaul
+Old World Blues Path Lighting
+Simple_Street_Lights_v
+Environment + Lighting_separator
+Subtle Camera Motion
+Cataract Eyes
-NCR Trooper Overhaul - Distributed Post Drag
+Dragbody
+NCR Trooper Overhaul
+Better Pause Screen
-EVE - Essential Visual Enhancements
+Enhanced Blood Textures
+EXE FULL RES V2 -LATEST
+Cleaver and Chopper Retexture
+Combat and Chance's knife Retexture
+Improved Robots Textures - All in One
+Hatchet retexture
+Bowie knife retexture
+Throwing melee weapon retexture
+Super Mutants HD - 4k Retextures
+The Molerat Extravaganza - Molerat Retexture
+Its a Dogs World - Dog Texture Overhaul
+FeralGhouls Hires retexture
+Hectrol ED-E Deluxe HR Retex EVOLUTION PACK
+Millenia's Environment Map Shader Fix
+Iron Sights Recoil Animations
-1st Person Animation Replacers
+Minimod - High Resolution Newspapers
+High Res Vanilla Posters and Graffiti
+Magazine Redux
+HiRes Skill Books Retexture
+PM's Med-Textures
+PM's HD Ammo Boxes
+High Res Vanilla Water Bottle Textures and Meshes
+Strip Wall Billboards
+Semitransparent Door Glass
+ADAM Reborn
+PM's HD Ranger Outfits
+PM's HD Legion Overhaul
+YUP - WRP Patch
+Weapon Retexture Project - WRP
+Book Of Steel
+Book Of Water
+Bornagain Combat Armor
+MGs Neat Clutter Retextures
+NV Males
+A Wasteland in Bloom
+Visuals - Merge
+Wasteland Clothing HD
+Better Jukebox
+Wasteland Flora and Terrain Overhaul
+OJO BUENO Collision Meshes
+OJO BUENO Texture Pack
+Collision Meshes
+DragsLittleThings
+NMCs Textures
+Visuals_separator
+Core - Conflict Resolution FOMOD
+Core - Merge
+Core - Finish Line_separator
+Vanilla UI Plus (New Vegas)
+One HUD (oHUD)
+Simple DLC Delay
+Tutorial Killer
+JIP Improved Recipe Menu
+The Weapon Mod Menu
+The Mod Configuration Menu
+UIO - User Interface Organizer
+HUD + UI_separator
-Faster Pip-Boy Animation (2x)
+Ambient Sound FIX
+Psycho and Slasher Bonus Damage Fix
+Sierra Madre Exterior Fixed
+ALTERNATIVE mastahbossu's Scripted Version
+Enslaving Arcade bugfix
+Stewie Tweaks
-Fix for the Legion armors
+Throwable Weapon Fixes
+WMIM Addendum
+Weapon Mesh Improvement Mod
+Unofficial Patch NVSE
+Navmesh Fixes and Improvements
+Yukichigai Unofficial Patch - YUP - Ragdolls
+Ragdolls
+Brave New World
+YUP - Base Game and All DLC
+Charges FNV HD Texture Packs
+Bug Fixes + QOL_separator
*DLC: CaravanPack
*DLC: TribalPack
*DLC: MercenaryPack
*DLC: ClassicPack
*DLC: GunRunnersArsenal
*DLC: LonesomeRoad
*DLC: OldWorldBlues
*DLC: HonestHearts
*DLC: DeadMoney
+Core_separator
Mod list order:
FalloutNV.esm
DeadMoney.esm
HonestHearts.esm
OldWorldBlues.esm
LonesomeRoad.esm
GunRunnersArsenal.esm
ClassicPack.esm
MercenaryPack.esm
TribalPack.esm
CaravanPack.esm
YUP - Base Game + All DLC.esm
Navmesh Fixes and Improvements.esm
oHUD.esm
Cyberware.esm
PHWHPAPVisuals.esm
Functional Post Game Ending.esm
BraveNewWorld.esm
TLD_Travelers.esm
DragsVGUArmorBase.esm
GreatKhanGreatOverhaul.esm
WeAreLegion.esm
URWLNV-001-Weather.esm
Interior Lighting Overhaul - Core.esm
Interior Lighting Overhaul - L38PS.esm
YUP - NPC Fixes (Base Game + All DLC).esp
Unofficial Patch NVSE.esp
WMIMNV.esp
The Mod Configuration Menu.esp
The Weapon Mod Menu.esp
Ragdolls.esp
Character Creation Streamlined.esp
Core - Merge.esp
NukaCola-Ojo.esp
Vurt's WFO.esp
Weapon Retexture Project.esp
SimpleStreetLights (Extra Lights).esp
Lucky38Overhaul.esp
Visuals - Merge.esp
JSawyer Ultimate.esp
Economy Overhaul.esp
Mojave Arsenal.esp
Uncut Extra Collection.esp
Mojave Wildlife (Vanilla-Style + No Chanced).esp
Mojave Raiders.esp
JSawyer Ultimate - Mojave Raiders Patch.esp
DragsNPCOverhaul.esp
RaiderOverhaulPreview.esp
BrotherhoodReforged.esp
FO4 Power Armors - FNV Compatibility Edition.esp
BoomersGoBoom.esp
Drags20ArmorPack.esp
PowderIsTheNewBlack.esp
NCROverhaul.esp
BLEEDNV.esp
Real Recoil.esp
NPCsSprint.esp
Ammo Count Memory.esp
MeleeCleave.esp
Qolore Gameplay Tweaks.esp
JIP Companions Command & Control.esp
VNV Follower Tweaks.esp
Alternative Repairing.esp
YUP-Ragdolls.esp
JSawyer Ultimate-Ragdolls.esp
Gameplay - Merge.esp
Ragdolls + BLEED.esp
Universal Pip-Boy Customization.esp
Uncut Wasteland.esp
Beyond The Beef Tweaks.esp
vault22FloralOverhaul.esp
Baddarkl Perk Overhaul.esp
All Weapon Sounds Overhaul .esp
Explosive Sounds Overhaul.esp
ImmersivePickupSoundsFNV.esp
MojaveExtended100.esp
ExtendedNVRadio.esp
Brave New World Comp.esp
Content - Merge.esp
FNVLODGen.esp
tmzLODadditions.esp
URWLNV.esp
Interior Lighting Overhaul - Ultimate Edition.esp
ILO - GS Shack.esp
ILO - YUP Patch.esp
URWLNV-008-WeatherForcer.esp
Merges:
Core - Merge:
WMIM Addendum.esp
ThrowableFixes.esp
JIP Improved Recipe Menu.esp
Tutorial Killer.esp
Simple DLC Delay.esp
Vanilla UI Plus.esp
Enslave Gannon fix.esp
Melee Reach Revised.esp
Psycho and Slasher Bonus Damage Fix.esp
Core - UPNVSE - WMIM Patch.esp
Core - WMIM - Throwable Weapons Fixes Patch.esp
Core - YUP - WMIM Patch.esp
Core - YUP - Fix for Legion Armors Patch.esp
Visuals - Merge:
EnhancedGrass_NoVL.esp
A Wasteland in Bloom.esp
Book of Steel.esp
YUP - WRP Patch.esp
Enhanced Blood Main NV.esp
Burning Campfire.esp
BC2.esp
STDG.esp
Strip Wall Billboards.esp
OWB-Path Lights.esp
Gameplay - Merge:
Alternative Repairing - Honest Hearts.esp
Alternative Repairing - Lonesome Road.esp
BetterNCRSupplyCache.esp
BLEED Addendum.esp
CIB Supermutants.esp
Cyberware OWB.esp
Economy Overhaul Addendum.esp
Enhanced Vision.esp
Follower Tweaks.esp
Gameplay - JSUE - WRP Patch.esp
GRA Scavenger Hunt Unbalanced YUP.esp
Honest Hearts Workbench Crate Luck.esp
JSawyer Ultimate - Mojave Arsenal Patch.esp
JSUE Addendum.esp
JustModsAssorted.esp
Mojave Raiders - 22LR Varmint Rifle.esp
Mojave Raiders Addendum.esp
NPC Use Aid.esp
Quickthrow.esp
Recharger Rifle Rebalanced DLCs.esp
SGO - CCS Compatible.esp
Simple Explosive Entry.esp
Stat Choices.esp
Toxic Cloud Fix.esp
Universal Item Sorter.esp
Void Minigame Bypass.esp
VWBarterRepairCosts.esp
Yukichigai Gameplay Tweaks.esp
Gameplay - JSUE - Mojave Raiders Patch.esp
Gameplay - JSUE - YGT Patch.esp
Gameplay - Throwable Weapon Fixes - JSUE Patch.esp
Gameplay - UPNVSE - BLEED Patch.esp
Gameplay - UPNVSE - JSUE Patch.esp
Gameplay - WMIM - JSUE Patch.esp
Gameplay - WMIM - Super Mutant Overhaulord Patch.esp
Gameplay - YUP - Alternative Repairing Patch.esp
Gameplay - YUP - BLEED Patch.esp
Content - Merge:
Cut Sewers Restored.esp
TMCOTT - Restored.esp
Functional Post Game Ending - YUP Patch.esp
Functional Post Game Ending - Uncut Wasteland Patch.esp
Functional Post Game Ending - Uncut Extra Collection Patch.esp
Mojave Raiders - TLD Patch.esp
FNVOppositeTraits.esp
Improved Traits.esp
Burden to Bear Armor.esp
Combat Music.esp
Content - JSUE - FPGE Patch.esp
Content - JSUE - Improved Traits Patch.esp
Content - JSUE - Uncut Wasteland Patch.esp
Content - Simple Street Lights - Uncut Wasteland Patch.esp
Content - YUP - Perk Overhaul Patch.esp
Content - YUP - TMCOTT Restored Patch.esp
Content - YUP - TLD Patch.esp
Brave New World Comp:
BraveNewWorld-AnNPCOverhaul.esp
BraveNewWorld-BoomersGoBoom.esp
BraveNewWorld-BrotherhoodReforged.esp
BraveNewWorld-FiendLeaders.esp
BraveNewWorld-FPGE.esp
BraveNewWorld-GreaterKhans.esp
BraveNewWorld-JSU.esp
BraveNewWorld-NCROverhaul.esp
BraveNewWorld-PowderIsTheNewBlack.esp
BraveNewWorld-UncutExtraCollection.esp
BraveNewWorld-UncutWastelandNPCs.esp
BraveNewWorld-WeAreLegion.esp
BraveNewWorld-YUP.esp
Abbreviations:
URWLNV - URWLNV Ultimate Edition v2.1
NV Males - Breeze's Male Bodies + Dragbody's High-Resolution Male Body Textures
STDG - Semitransparent Door Glass + Bathroom Doors Fix
BC2 - Burning Campfire REDONE 2 Electric Boogaloo
Enhanced Terrain LOD - Enhanced Terrain LOD - TTW_NV_All_Texture_Packs
RWL Tweaked - Real World Lighting Tweaked (Viva New Vegas)
Dragbody - All of Dragbody's mods (ONLY the ones supported by Brave New World's compatibility patches)
CIB Supermutants - Super Mutant Overhaulord (yes, the original title is misspelled)
EXE FULL RES V2 -LATEST - EXE - Effect teXtures Enhanced
The various patches are from Viva Las Vegas
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That character is from a mod. I guess that's just her face?
from The Living Desert mod.
Yes, just her face. but I noticed it's in vanilla too (like https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Ghost_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)
All mods and overhauls seem to have those greenish elements, like green circles around the eyes
here's the same character with mods (Dragbody, Brave New World)
edit: forgot to note that the usual INI fixes aren't working(bFixFaceNormals and bLoadFaceGenHeadEGTFiles are on)
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Some characters look like they have one of those green anti-aging/moisturizer masks
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I did some digging in FNVEdit and found that nearly ALL mods have the entry Worldspace \ 000DA726 <WastelandNV>
But all mods have identical values and no conflicts with master (except for a few mods like Functional Post Game ending, but they end up being overwritten anyway)
I figured if they're all the same and merely spam the game with identical values, I can delete all of them except for the master and/or last mod in load order.
doing so instantly gave a 10-15 fps boost and further minimized ticks and drops, but I noticed that at least one of the mod's stopped working without any errors or "some content in this save is unavailable"
Which happened to be Simple Street Lights (extra lights) since it places extra light posts in certain areas, and they were gone.
First, do all mods stop working without their own 000DA726 wastelandNV entry?
since the entry is identical to master anyway, why?
Tnx!
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I installed it according to instructions but I can't see it in my FFOM.
GOG version
maybe I installed JIP LN NVSE incorrectly? how is it supposed to be installed?
LL2Tier2GunsNCRTrooper skill scaling
in Discussion
Posted
So one of my mods added a gun requiring 100 guns skill to LL2Tier2GunsNCRTrooper50, but generic NCR troopers don't have 100 guns skill.
Are NPC's effected/affected by skill requirements like the player? If they spawn with a 100 weapon, will they be ineffective with it?
Also, is there a way to prevent weapons from spawning and/or spawning for NPC's before certain quests are completed and/or DLC's finished and/or some other condition