alannordgren

We are currently transitioning over to DevOps from Agile, but our Agile still looks more like Waterfall in many cases because of "that's how we've always done it" so I'm not sure how the transition will go. I worry that we are just wasting a lot of money by melding these methodologies. Our scrum meetings are weekly not daily and our iterations take months instead of weeks. So DevOps might fall flat on its face. But I don't make those decisions so I will just roll with it. I've seen others on this forum mention similar scenarios to yours and I can see that would certainly be a head ache. When I mod though I will pick my mods before I start a play through and I generally don't touch them or do any experimenting after that point. My play through might last me a year or two. Then I delete everything and start fresh before my next play through. So I haven't ever run into that particular problem. Maybe I am just lucky, but I have been lucky for a very long time and my luck has continued once I started using Vortex. The only major hiccup I have had is this feature getting in the way of my laissez faire modding strategy. Like I said, I am perhaps a more casual/lazy modder than most folks here. I guess, because of the way I play, I didn't see much use for this particular feature and thought it overkill which is why I brought it up. I guess we'll see if my issue is seen as valid or not over the next few releases.

I'm going to take my car to the garage so they can remove the oil light that keeps coming on, that will fix my problem. You are not being helpful. This is unnecessary. If you continue, I will report you. Report me for what? For having a differing opinion than yours? For using a metaphor? The example I gave showed EXACTLY what you want to do. Instead of putting oil in the car, you would rather have the light, (reminding you to put oil in the car) removed, knowing full well, that eventually the car will break down, but until that time, you're not being annoyed by the oil light being on all the time. What you are suggesting is called a "Bad Idea" HadToRegister, I mad a mistake. I thought you and chanchan05 were the same person because you referenced his initial analogy. Because of that I got a little heated and didn't pay close enough attention to who was saying what. I'm sorry I threatened to report you. Big mistake that I shouldn't have made on a forum. I hope you will accept my apology.

Well I now sheepishly realize I was speaking to the choir :). And you started when I was only 10 so your experience clearly far exceeds mine. If you don't mind me asking, what development methodology do you use? Waterfall, One of the Agile varieties, DevOps? Just curious. I understand what you are saying, and you are absolutely right. Clearly the error would need to be corrected through the collaboration between the two programmers otherwise the errors would compound overtime through the development process until the end result might end up being a complete failure. And I understand this is what this feature in Vortex is trying to prevent. Which is why you and others have been warning me about the corrupt saves and potentially game breaking behavior. So for someone who wants a pristine gaming experience, your analogy makes a lot of sense. I'm not saying that I have never dealt with these issues, it just hasn't been very often. Maybe it has to do with the types of mods I choose, I overwhelmingly choose graphics enhancing mods over things that change game play or use scripts and that sort of thing. Small graphical issues here and there just don't bother me that much and I don't care to try and fix them. Maybe that's where the disconnect between me and others who have posted on this thread lies. Because of how I mod I don't get many issues and it has been a very long time since I have had a corrupt save or something else breaking my game. I use Loot to show me the glaring errors, I fix those, click the auto sort button and that's basically it. I don't worry about conflicts, I don't clean my mods or game files or do anything else. I just load it up and play. I'm not looking for a pristine gaming experience, I'm just escaping for a little while. And that brings me back to my issue with this "feature", it just gets in my way. I understand that most of the folks who use this forum are more enthusiast than I am. My type of modder probably generally doesn't get involved here. But, being in the software business, I just like new shiny software and I like helping it improve if I find errors, or my user experience is lacking. And I don't get involved here very often either.

I'm going to take my car to the garage so they can remove the oil light that keeps coming on, that will fix my problem. You are not being helpful. This is unnecessary. If you continue, I will report you. Report me for what? For having a differing opinion than yours? For using a metaphor? The example I gave showed EXACTLY what you want to do. Instead of putting oil in the car, you would rather have the light, (reminding you to put oil in the car) removed, knowing full well, that eventually the car will break down, but until that time, you're not being annoyed by the oil light being on all the time. What you are suggesting is called a "Bad Idea" I don't mind differing opinions, that's what this whole thread has been. Healthy debate is great. What you were doing, at least from my point of view, is mock my opinion, twice. I was being cordial and you were being a troll. If that wasn't your intent, that's fine but that is certainly how you came across. However your previous post added something to the conversation instead of mocking it, which is good.

I'm going to take my car to the garage so they can remove the oil light that keeps coming on, that will fix my problem. You are not being helpful. This is unnecessary. If you continue, I will report you.

I agree, using Vortex is a vast improvement, and I don't deny this feature and the warning it's attached to aren't helpful (although I admit, it kind of sounded that way in my original post). I understand it's purpose, I just want to be able to turn if off if I want. Even with me ignoring the warning, I have had a very positive and stable experience with my games; which is one of the reasons I am excited about continued development. I know my view on this is slanted from a tester perspective and a somewhat lazy modder perspective. In the software testing world I give suggestions to the developers all the time that may or may not be implemented. There are a lot of factors at play; code, stake holders, users, cost, time and so on. None the less, my job is to point out potential flaws or shortcomings so they can be up for consideration based on the variety of factors I mentioned. I just think it's a little presumptive to dismiss my suggestion before it has had the chance to go through the development and consideration process. Software such as Excel for instance, needs to accommodate the very technical user who likes to use lots of graphs, calculations, macros etc. but it also needs to accommodate someone who all they want to do is make a basic budget and use a simple calculator. If using Excel required any of it's more technical functions in order for you to save or use your spreadsheet then it would alienate a certain demographic of potential users even if the spreadsheets they created were sub par in the eyes of a more advanced user. Could that less advanced user use a different spreadsheet instead like Open Office? Sure, but that user may also prefer the clean design and user friendliness of Excel even though their use is comparatively simplistic. That is how I view NMM vs Vortex. I am a more simplistic user and you are a more advanced one. Because of the field I work in, I believe Vortex should accommodate both. I don't think I should have to settle for a clunkier, older mod manager just because I use it differently from others. I don't mind that Vortex tells me I have a potential problem, I just want to be able to ignore it if I want. And I imagine I'm probably not the only one, I just happened to be the one to point it out. But, it is really good that this conversation has expanded because Tannin, Dark0ne and others involved in development can look at it and weigh the argument against the factors they use to make the decision whether my criticism is valid or not. I appreciate the deeper and more understanding conversation, thank you.

Ummm, a tad over dramatic, plus a broken car can kill you or someone else, a game is well, just a game. Apple and orange. I get what you all art trying to say, I really do, but I have been modding since Morrowind and all bethesda games in between. I have spent hundreds of hours in each game after modding it heavily (minus Fallout 4 sincie I only got it a few months ago). And I can count on one hand the number of times my game has not behaved properly or my save got broken. And I promise I'm not over exagerating. Considering my personal experience, I am simply not motivated to be more technical with modding, although I do enjoy it. I don't claim I am a more experienced modder than anyome else here. Doing it for a long time and technical knowledge are two different things, I totally get that. And, like I said, I admire you folks who are good at it. I am very technical in other things that I do, such as building computers, or my job as a software tester, or DIY projects around my house. To me, those things are worth being technical in, but someone else may not be even if they enjoy doing them, and that's OK. I am a very busy man, not only do I work hard, but I am married with 6 children. When I have time to relax and play video games, the last thing I want to do is fiddle with it too much or over complicate it. It is an escape for me, not more work. And considering my personal track record with modding I see little point in changing my ways. And that includes my experience so far with Vortex; things work so I don't worry about it. All I am trying to do with this thread is give some feedback on something I see as a problem so Vortex can be improved further. And I believe Tannin and Dark0ne want Vortex to be a good experience for every modder who uses this site and I really like what they have accomplished with it so far. As many others have done, I'm giving a suggestion based off of my experience. As a software tester, that's what I do I give feedback to the developer based on the perspective of the end user (overly simplified, but I'm sure you get what I mean). Telling me to go back to the mod manager I was using seems counter productive. I want to be part of the conversation like everyone else here does. And just like everyone elses experience and enjoyment of this product matters, so does mine. You don't have to agree with my suggestion or my method of modding (this happens in software developement all the time), but essentially telling me to get out of town, or anyone else for that matter, hurts the developement of Vortex instead of making it better. I didn't mean to bring up a controversial toppic or make anyone angry. I'm just a guy who likes gaming and modding and wants to see Vortex be a success, which is something I think we all have in common.

Well, not exactly the response I was expecting but that's fine. Look, I'm sure you all have good points which I should probably listen to, but I have been modding my games for many years and have always been a more casual modder and never really delved into the real technical parts. I have played both Skyrim and Fallout 4 for dozens of hours in their current state and haven't had any problems so it's hard for me to feel motivated to change my habits. That's why I would like to at least have an option to turn this feature off so I can continue to do as I have always done which has worked fine so far. I really admire you modders who really get into the technical side of modding. I think it's really cool, but it's not for me. I really like using Vortex, but this just gets in the way of how I like to enjoy my games. Some of you may roll your eyes at this, but thats fine too, different strokes for different folks.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I would not call this an improvement. I regularly start my games with this warning and I don't have any problems with my mods in the game or how the game runs. All this did is frustrate me and not allow me to play my games at the time I wanted to play them. Please remove it or at least provide a way that it can be turned off. Thanks.

i'm having the same problem.

I just noticed that updating to 0.15.1 fixed the issue. I was lazily working on Steven's work around but hadn't finished yet because I kept getting new cyclical errors after I fixed some, so I gave up until today. I updated and poof the problem went away. So thanks for the fix Tannin!

Thanks Steven! You are a life saver.

Well, I was very used to how mod organizer did things and I have not played Skyrim for a few years because I was waiting for SKSE 64 to come out and some of my favorite mods to appear on the Nexus. So because of that I haven't modded in a while and because I was anxious to play Skyrim SE and because I was being a little lazy, I have not created rules and just used the sort function within Vortex. It was good enough for right now. But thanks so much for explaining the process for me. I get easily lost in the forums trying to figure out how to use vortex. I handle manuals and instruction videos a lot better. Kind of a lame answer, but it's the best I got :).

Hey everyone, I'm modding Skyrim SE. I just updated to 0.15.0 and now I'm getting the "plugins not sorted because of cyclic rules" notification. I'm a little confused because I had not set any rules. And I am trying to figure out how to undo the rules so my plugins will sort. I was hoping there would be an "undo all rules" feature, but if there is one I'm not seeing it. After modding my game I did a default sort just to see if that would work well enough while I try to learn vortex so I could still play Skyrim and it did so I was happy until I just updated. If this was answered in another thread I appoligize and I'm fine being directed there. Any ideas?

Well, I found a solution to the problem. I still don't know exactly what the problem was, but the solution was to update Windows. I hadn't yet installed the fall creators update and when I did, it solved the problem. Kind of weird, but maybe this info might help someone else.