KamariBVB

Ah. And are you affiliated with them? Out of curiosity

Y And if something goes wrong during the process of overwriting the rules? Or any other part? what then? He didn't seem to be positive he could pull this off in the announcement. And yet, from what I'm gathering, hes wondering why some of us have a problem with agreeing or not agreeing to contribute to something even he doesn't know exactly will turn out. i honestly don't know how else to get through to you or him. This shows that you have no idea what you are even talking about if you don't even understand overwrite rules.Look, its been a while since I've used a mod manager, okay? It has to do with how the manager decides which mod gets priority over another. Also, I've lost sleep over this situation recently so I'm pretty fricken exhausted. We want ot be able to delete our mods. And opt our mods out of the collections system. That is our stipulations for continuing to use this site. If someone thinks otherwise, by all emans speak up, but that's what I've gathered. Am i wrong in thinking that no one yet knows exactly how this thing will work? Or if it will? Am i misremembering the post

Y And if something goes wrong during the process of overwriting the rules? Or any other part? what then? He didn't seem to be positive he could pull this off in the announcement. And yet, from what I'm gathering, hes wondering why some of us have a problem with agreeing or not agreeing to contribute to something even he doesn't know exactly will turn out. i honestly don't know how else to get through to you or him. This shows that you have no idea what you are even talking about if you don't even understand overwrite rules.Look, its been a while since I've used a mod manager, okay? It has to do with how the manager decides which mod gets priority over another.

And if something goes wrong during the process of overwriting the rules? Or any other part? what then? He didn't seem to be positive he could pull this off in the announcement. And yet, from what I'm gathering, hes wondering why some of us have a problem with agreeing or not agreeing to contribute to something even he doesn't know exactly will turn out. i honestly don't know how else to get through to you or him.

Then he shouldn't have any issue using his own mods to be the guinea pigs. Unless, of course, its a question of time. Wouldn't that be ironic? Look, NexusMods is a great website. He did good work. Where he f***ed up was the part where deliberately went against the wishes of some of the people who created what makes up the heart of this website: mods. I still don't think its unreasonable to ask that we retain control of our *mods. After all, what will happen to his website when mod authors decide not to upload our work here? Also, what happens when a mod author that has mods in collections gets banned? Will Robin or his employees work with the Curators of his work to remove the mods?

I'd be happy to help out for free, when I have time.

Corrupt or otherwise damage them. Did it occur to him that this entire process of his might be emotionally painful for some of us? I can't say that I know for sure that other mod authors feel the same as me, but I'm not kidding when I say modding and 3d modeling brings me so much joy and fulfillment. I adore it. I spend lots of time and effort on them. So....there's no doubt that I would be f*#@ing devastated if someone decided it was okay to use the fruits of my intensive labor as an experiment for a too that might damage it, no matter how much I protested. Here's an idea. How about he make his own mods to use as a test to work out the bugs. Come with us with a clear idea of what he's asking us to agree to, or not. That's reasonable.

a You know, if you don't think of "mod authors" as some sort of collective entity, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any single author who has put anywhere near as much work into the Nexus as Robin has. With Collections alone it has been a project he and his staff have been working on for more than three years. They've examined it from every direction they can think of. Yet, these threads are full of people saying "having given this a single day of thought I can explain everything they need to do to make this work." Honestly, they've thought of all those ideas already. They've discarded them because they don't result in the system they feel they need to build. It's going to have to be time for some people to move on and hope that they can find an adequate solution. Or someone else willing to invest a couple of decades into developing one. And for the millionth time, that is exactly the problem. What is disheartening is that he is allegedly a former mod author, and yet he still feels we do not deserve to have the right to prevent the fruits of our labors from being subjected to a tool that may or may not be a flaming hot pile of mess, at least at first. Also, did he even create any of the mods on this site? I'll be frank, if that's true, I can't believe the entitlement hes showing by insisting that he should have the right to use the fruits of our labor as his guinea pigs for this project of his, no matter how much we protest or how wonderful the end goal. For what feels like the millionth time: he and his employees deserve all the credit for the website. But not our mods. We created the mods. He did not help with the creation process itself. And his own damn TOS gives us ownership of our content. US. not him. Or her, or them. That's not to say that he played no part, because this is the biggest source of mods.

So to summarize here. I think it is reasonable to expect that Nexus mods allow us to opt out of allowing our mods to be put in collections. You do not. Its a shame, because I would think that some sort of workaround could be figured out if this request could be granted. I am frustrated. I am disheartened. I am worried for the future of this platform. And I am angry. And what's the most frustrating thing of all is that I absolutely love the idea of simplifying the process of creating a load order, and so many other mod authors do as well. I agree, we could do something great if we were to work together. But how is it reasonable to demand that we agree to allow our mods to be used for an allegedly brand new tool that even the creators don't know exactly how is going to work, all within a month, considering we stand to sacrifice more than any of the other parties, but gain less. I know how much time I can end up spending creating a 3d model for a mod. I am known to stay at the computer modeling for an entire day, because I absolutely love it. It brings me so much joy. I think a big part of what bothers me personally about this is not knowing for sure if this Vortex collection thingy is going to break our mods or if it is not...I've been screwed over by Vortex before, after all. Before I started using MM02, it ended up corrupting my files, which forced me to undownload everything and then redownload everything. It set me back by quite a bit....

Earlier on in this thread, you said it would be easy enough to implement an opt out collections system. The bottom line: it is possible to streamline the process of creating a load order without encouraging-and even creating the tool to allow people to-use a mod file in a manner that the owner does not approve of. To be honest, I don't think a mod author's view on how a mod is downloaded or installed should matter. I can't think of a single good reason why they should have that right to tell everyone else how things should be done in that regard. If I created a list of mods of the most essentially mods, and linked to downloads for each of the mods in that list ... I would never listen to a mod author trying to tell me I can't do that with their mod because it's ridiculous. That would be like a mod author telling which mod organizer I can and cannot use with their mod. An opt out would be the exact same thing as doing that, because all a collection is ... is a list of mods and where to get them. Not even curseforge has an opt out as far as I am aware. How about because of all the time and effort it can take to create a great mod? How about because it requires a skillset that takes time to cultivate? How about because that's literally not how it works with real-world objects? You can spend all the time you want searching for illegal ways to watch tv shows or movies, its still f*#@ing illegal and you can still go to jail for that. No matter how much you may love the movie/tv show.

Unfortunately, I'm starting to think that we really must part ways. Also, for the record, even if I were a mod author that had uploaded here, I would never claim to own the website itself. Since enrolling in the VR/Augmented reality programing class this semester, I have realized that developing and modding overlap far less than I originally thought. So yes, I'm not claiming that mod authors own the site, nor do I recall a mod author ever claiming that. And for the record, I would never deny that the owners of the website have the right to-and should!-earn revenue from the website. Just not the mods themselves. Another thing I would like to contribute: modding doesn't work on just any machine. In 2019 (I think), I spent around a month scouring the internet for a laptop powerful enough to run blender, but less than $1000. I failed. Plus, some of us may have sought out and participated in professional training. I remember what computer I had at the time. It was crashing constantly because it lacked a dedicated graphics card. That's pretty much a must for any gaming machine.

Earlier on in this thread, you said it would be easy enough to implement an opt out collections system. The bottom line: it is possible to streamline the process of creating a load order without encouraging-and even creating the tool to allow people to-use a mod file in a manner that the owner does not approve of.

Respectfully: bulls***. At least in terms of the option to opt out. You said yourself that it would be easy to implement that, they just don't want to. I can't help but think based on the post they made is that the reason they do not want to is because they will probably make more money with the setup they're planning now. See, that's the problem, though: it is not their content to profit off of like this. It says in the TOS that mod authors retain ownership of the files they upload, but wtf is the point of having ownership if they get to do whatever they want with files no matter what we say or want?

this has been answered. not clearly and not in basic yes/no format, but its been answered. When did I say it hasn't been answered? I think this is a reasonable question to ask, given that I got the impression that Robin thought that the fact that he/she/they and the others gave mod authors a grace period to delete mods, combined with their intentions, would excuse their lack of allowing people to properly consent to this matter. as far as i can tell, you never said about it not being answered. yes it is a reasonable question to ask, but as it's already been answered elsewhere, it won't get answered here just because you asked it. but by all means, ask away. just don't expect any answers because, like probably 99% of the users on this website, you're irrelevant. (just like me). I wonder if admins will still think I'm irrelevant once I release a tutorial about how to use github to upload mod files, and then work together with a influential Modder to create a social media group where all the links to the repos could go? Sounds like a good plan, problem would probably be to get everyone to cooperate. Been here so long and seen so much drama between MA's... :confused: But a good idea for sure. this has been answered. not clearly and not in basic yes/no format, but its been answered. When did I say it hasn't been answered? I think this is a reasonable question to ask, given that I got the impression that Robin thought that the fact that he/she/they and the others gave mod authors a grace period to delete mods, combined with their intentions, would excuse their lack of allowing people to properly consent to this matter. as far as i can tell, you never said about it not being answered. yes it is a reasonable question to ask, but as it's already been answered elsewhere, it won't get answered here just because you asked it. but by all means, ask away. just don't expect any answers because, like probably 99% of the users on this website, you're irrelevant. (just like me). I wonder if admins will still think I'm irrelevant once I release a tutorial about how to use github to upload mod files, and then work together with a influential Modder to create a social media group where all the links to the repos could go? Sounds like a good plan, problem would probably be to get everyone to cooperate. Been here so long and seen so much drama between MA's... :confused: But a good idea for sure. I have read their reasoning, and I think it is safe to say that many of us who are still upset have as well. Here are the problems, from what I have thought up: 1) I do not believe the fact that allowing people to opt out of mod collections would break the tool, especially since many mod authors have said that their problem isn't with the Collections, its the inability to delete their own damn files. Many mod authors have asserted that this inability is the only problem they have with this system, but NexusMods is refusing to budge, so as they say, we have unfortunately reached an impasse. 2. Granted, I am not yet a mod author. But IMO this is about so much more than inconveniencing mod authors. It is about blatantly disrespecting our boundaries as artists, even while knowing full well how much time it can take to make a mod. I've even seen people allege that these changes are against the law. 3) On the one hand, it is understandable that they may not have answers about something that they have not planned out fully yet. What is not understandable is the fact that despite this, and despite knowing that mod authors would protest vehemently, they instituted the changes anyways. I would think it would be very reasonable to expect that NexusMods give its users a clear picture of what, exactly, they are asking us to contribute to before giving us as little as a month to make a decision between potentially forfeiting our access to the audience of the largest moddding website and losing control of the product of their blood, sweat, and tears.

If you know of any modders who would want to help out, or simply want to learn, feel free to direct them to my pms on here. I'm intending to post a video somewhere about this process.

this has been answered. not clearly and not in basic yes/no format, but its been answered. When did I say it hasn't been answered? I think this is a reasonable question to ask, given that I got the impression that Robin thought that the fact that he/she/they and the others gave mod authors a grace period to delete mods, combined with their intentions, would excuse their lack of allowing people to properly consent to this matter. as far as i can tell, you never said about it not being answered. yes it is a reasonable question to ask, but as it's already been answered elsewhere, it won't get answered here just because you asked it. but by all means, ask away. just don't expect any answers because, like probably 99% of the users on this website, you're irrelevant. (just like me). I wonder if admins will still think I'm irrelevant once I release a tutorial about how to use github to upload mod files, and then work together with a influential Modder to create a social media group where all the links to the repos could go?

this has been answered. not clearly and not in basic yes/no format, but its been answered. When did I say it hasn't been answered? I think this is a reasonable question to ask, given that I got the impression that Robin thought that the fact that he/she/they and the others gave mod authors a grace period to delete mods, combined with their intentions, would excuse their lack of allowing people to properly consent to this matter.

a No idea who will be selected to help with the beta test. Probably have some ideas who is NOT on the list anymore, though. I doubt they'll discuss the beta test until after things have settled down over all this mess. Opt out? Putting in an opt-out option is technically easy for their own Collections system, but the API is designed to give other software the ability to download from Nexus in the same way that Vortex does. Philosophically, they are against restricting other programs just as much as they are against restricting Vortex. And therein lies the crux of the problem. And before I forget, even if we assume that Robin wasn't being totally dishonest when offering that removal grace period, I'm still against this. Mainly because there's no guarantee that mod authors will have a chance to find out what is going on before august 5th. People have lives outside of modding, after all, and I don't think they should be punished for that. (what was up with the fine print on the removal request form? Looked suspiciously like the form wasn't to request what we were lead to believe at all, but rather, the same thing it'll be when august fifth passes. It doesn't help that the admin didn't clearly answer a question about this in a different thread before locking it down. So, the million dollar question to the admins: if we fill out the form and respond to your follow up prior to august 5th, will you remove any and all traces of the mods we tell you to delete from this website, yes or no?

Another idea I've heard thrown around is to start having people only use one mod per playthrough that would take care of all their needs. Yeah, it would be enormous and probably take forever, but I would imagine that would take care of conflicts. I hope this works out for the better for everyone...

t The amount the mod author is sacrificing is the largest subject of debate. To some, the removal of deletions (along with the rather questionable "edit" rights) amounts to taking ownership of the mods. To others, like me, it's another restriction on your rights akin to the inability to sell your mods, which is less than taking ownership. It has to be the mod authors decision whether or not it is going too far. The "no opt-out" thing is because you can't opt-out of any of the other Collection like systems. They would rather lose mod authors who don't agree with them than create a system that is hamstrung from the outset by being more limited in available mods than the other choices. So there is no way to design a new system that offers that?

Vortex has built-in throttling options. It might have a data cap option, I haven't looked. If it doesn't, it would be an easy add. Definitely something to be brought up during the beta test, whenever that is planned for. Unfortunately I doubt I will have the privliedge of bringing that up then. Can I trust you to do so, or find someone else?

My issue with taking control of content you do not own aside, I do forsee some other issues with collections that I feel the need to mention. The primary one being that I really think it will be important that people have the option to download mods one at a time. Why? Because some people have Internet connections with datacaps. Trust me when I say that I know the pain of using up an entire months worth of data in a week and subsequently having to suffer through ridiculously slow speeds, even while paying over $100 for internet access. I'm talking slow as in Netflix-isn't-any-fun-anymore-because-it-stops-to-buffer-every-three-fricken-seconds-and-takes-forever kind of slow. I'm talking feeling the need to celebrate when realizing that a mod from NexusMOds is downloading at a speed faster than 1 mbps while using a premium account. I'm talking about speeds so slow it almost completely defeats the purpose of using the internet at all because it becomes hard to do anything with it

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not

MO2 doesn't do a quarter of what Collections will do. Also, just for the record, the person who created MO is now the developer of Vortex for the Nexus. The removal of deletions is to create reliable Collections that are not vulnerable to the removal of needed files whenever a mod author feels like it. This is something that does not currently exist with any other Collection like option. Wabbajack, ModDrop...even basic lists are vulnerable to removed mods. I'm not sure if they've even decided if Curators will be able to earn money, but it will be a very small amount compared to what will go to the authors of the mod on the list. If the Collection contained 99 mods, at best the curator would get 1/100th of the DP (assuming everyone is opted in for DP). It will probably benefit mod authors the least because the greatest benefit is intended for the mod users. Mod authors and Nexus will benefit from increased membership and Premium payments. And yet, it is the mod authors who will sacrifice the most, will they not? This is why I don't blame them for being upset at how NM has handled this. Yes, I read the announcement, so I know their reasoning for the removal of deletions. To be fair, it does sound like they've implemented this in a way that makes it as hard as possible for people to access archived files outside of collections. So they do get a little bit of credit there. My thing is I can't see why it wouldn't be the right thing to do to just accept it if a mod author didn't want to have their mod be part of a collection. There are all sorts of free tutorials online that teach people how to make their own mods, after all.

Partially. Mostly I'm just trying to come to the rescue of a community that I love. As much as I won't blame mod authors from removing their mods here, I really, really really, really don't want to see some fantastic mods be removed from the internet forever. And as someone who has put a lot of effort for years now to learn how to make the best mod I can, I would like to have a place to post my mod when I am finished that will actually reach people. I can see where they are coming from, a little bit. Essentially what I have gathered from the announcement is that their official position is they have found themselves in the position of needing to become more profitable for their own sake as well as the rest of ours. Its reasonable to want to make a living from your job, after all. I am still interested in finding out if mod authors would be interested in creating collections themselves with their own mods. That might be the best course of action here, that doesn't put mod authors in the position of having to choose between losing control of the content they created and having that control, but potentially access to an audience a fraction of the size it would be otherwise. Also, I would appreciate it if you wouldn't go after Showler. Given that many of his comments in the last few pages have been in response to me.