Fangdreth

There is a mod called "Daedric Wargames" - here on TESNexus - that lets you control the forces of Sheogorath against those of Mehrunes Dagon in one of three battlefields (an open one for a skirmish, a fortress-like defensive, and an assault on a fortified hill). It uses base AI, such as the placemeat scripting, but the battles are often quite interesting, allowing you to spawn troops right at you and decide the outcome of a battle. It is rather simple, but there are a myriad of 'units' to choose from, ranging from Saints and Seducers to a giant Flesh Atronach (The Gatekeeper, I think) and spellcasters that focus on damage or healing. I find it rather amusing, and have often spent my play time only doing those wargames.

Perhaps the use of promotions/demotions could have more than just a simple effect (IE: Promote Joe from lower to middle class, and make him turn out more stuff.) People of the classes would work in a varied manner. The lower class *has* to work to get anywhere (I'm reading "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair -- it shows the poor quite well) while the middle class would have some amenities, and still work. But the upper class, the rich noble types, wouldn't work to save their life. So, here is another idea about the pyramid idea: Lower class: Following the pyramid scheme, would be the most numerous. They form the brunt of the workforce, and the vast majority would live in groups in shacks, flats...wherever there was space. Buildings would not be classy, like the IC Waterfront slums: poorly made houses, tightly together. Perhaps, post-test-phase, shacks could give more population (If a middle-class house holds 3 people, a lower-class hovel may be around 5 or 6). For players who favor work over happiness, cheap and plentiful hovels would allow for maximum population over a thin area. They aren't as bad off as beggars, for they can buy food, shoes, etc., but they aren't that far off. Middle Class: The medieval middle class would be more like a Guilded or professional character. The professional alchemist who sells her wares, or many members of the Fighter's or Mage's guild would fall into this category. People who live like this would easily live a 'good' life by the lower class standards, as they can have food on their table that has susbstance, perhaps a little wine, etc. Going along with the houses, the middle class may favor a larger home than a shack -- perhaps like Bruma, usually having two floors, a kitchen, etc. Upper Class: The rich and wealthy usually would have houses like Chorrol (Skingrad would be something that only the wealthiest of the wealthy would own) plus some would have space for a servant or perhaps two. The only problem is that they aren't the 'salt of the earth' sort of people -- they have luxury, and would probably not want to give it up. Therefore, most wouldn't work as one would in the game; they would not gather herbs, or polish a sword unless they were showing it off. These would be wealthy merchants and company heads. Likely, an upper class home would add one or two to the island (a man and wife, etc.). However, this idea just struck me: the upper class would probably want servants, and some would even build lavish mansions with servants, etc. So perhaps a 'super upper class' would exist, or even possibly come into existance later on. Here's what I think: After, say, one month of game time has passed, the player's island is flourishing. There are 30 lower class, 10 middle, and 4 upper. Of the lower class, all but 5 are employed doing some task. The player has no place for them, for whatever reason (A limit on the mine, a risk of deforestation, personal choice...) and they are just taking up space. The guard is filled, and no matter what he/she does, these five people will stay. So, he/she walks over to some Upper Class guy, tells him that there are five people, and the Upper Class guy hires them as servants. It could be a whole new place for the workforce to go -- servants of nobles. Joe goes from just sitting around, doing nothing to earning a wage at some upper classman's house. It would also allow the player to hire people for his/her own estate: cooks, butlers, maids, whatever. They could gain a rank for it, and perhaps have some comment/abilities tied to that rank (The player hires Joe as his cook, thereby promoting Joe to the 'chef' rank of the faction. Being in that rank gives Joe two new comments: food and drink. Like Eyja.) As for buildings, perhaps building choices could reflect the wealth of the island, and their effects determined by their natures. Building a highly expensive, immense cathedral is going to take a lot of resources, but it would likely raise all levels (security for feelings of the Nine guarding them, happiness for obvious reasons, and production (the Nine are watching). Building a park may increase happiness, but where that park is, people could be living. So, if the player has a large number of poor people, they may take to using the park as a home. From here, it would probably crush morale. Another idea would be using the island-money to try and get people to flock to the island. It would be a great way to expand, rather than just having the houses built (perhaps it would be included in the cost?) and it could be modified to have greater/lesser effectiveness depending on the status of the community. And as to the status, I've seen mods that use a sort of counter. If a positive rating, for example, the island would be doing great -- a negative would mean that the island is a slave pit. The value could be determined by a number of factors: if you build shacks, the value would drop, say, one point. But if you build a noble's manse, it would go up three. In the middle would lie the 'safe zone' while going to either extreme would result in gains in fame/infamy, lessened/increased production, greater/lesser happiness, etc. Perhaps include structures that can be built at certain points (IE: If the worth value is -25 or more, build a torture pit instead of a prison to instill fear and force workers to give it there all, under pain of torment) I'll keep thinking up new ideas. F.

I'd like to add some of my own thoughts, too. So far, the processes remind me a lot of another game, Stronghold 2. It dealt with the founding of a city around your citadel. It worked in about the same way -- for example, build a wheat field, which sends wheat to storage. Miller comes, grabs the wheat, mills it into flour. Flour to the baker, makes bread...etc. Some had a myriad of uses -- a cheese farm, for example, would have cows. If you want soldiers with leather armor, you needed leather, so you'd need to kill off a cow or two. In this way, you could start small with preparing your guards, and even your people (a lumberjack may want to be kept safe from wild animals, but to do so in a suit of heavy armor would probably just be a mess). From there, you could develop to chain mail, or even plate. This would allow the player to customize his/her guard force, between heavily armored, slow moving troops to lightly armored, swift soldiers. Plus, the cows on the farm could not only help support the population (Say, cows give off enough milk to make cheese, adding 50 units to the 100 needed for the next person. Cut that in half if you plan to make leather). Now, I also had an idea for the presence of a guild on the island. I usually play a mage-type, and I usually have a measure of disdain for plain fighters (they whack things, I make explosions...etc.). So, I doubt I would just welcome a guild full of fighters to the isle. Perhaps there is an available Guild Hall, but you the player have to choose to whom it goes? For example, let's say that there are a few groups who see the Hall and say, "Hey! I want that!" Let's also say that those guilds are the Fighter's, Mage's, the Imperial Legion (for a post), a group of Monks/Priests, and the Thief's (under another guise -- private investigators, specialists, whatever.) You can only give it to one, and each would give some benefits. Plus, each to have their own set of quests. Fighter's Guild: Gives training and weapons to citizens, resulting in, say, +5 or +10 to all weapons, strength, agility, etc. Plus, having the Fighter's Guild establishes their own trading stall during the market, selling off excess weapons and armor. They give a small boost to feelings of security. A quest for them may involve getting enough ingots to produce weaponry. Mage's Guild: Enchants tools and makes potions. They give an island-wide bonus to production and income (potions to sell). They set up a stall, too, and sell weapons/armor with minor enchantments, as well as potions -- all in small quantity. They cause a slight drop in security (people don't trust magi) but give a boost to general happiness, possibly health (from potions). A quest from them may involve the opening of a library or sending a farmer or two to help with a garden. Legion Post: The Legion uses new soldiers there, who patrol the land. They do not offer help directly, but Legion horsemen are always on patrol. They give a large boost to security, a slight to general happiness, plus they will protect the roads. A quest for the Legion could involve calling in a shipment of horses and supplies, or giving support on matters (A goblin cave, perhaps) Priory: Monks and Priests come to live on your island. Monks are hard workers, and can be directed to do a task -- which they do, for a longer period of time than a normal citizen, and to a slightly greater degree (150%). Priests tend to the wounded, the tired, and preach at the village square and parks. They give a boost to production (monks) and a large boost to happiness (priests). The Priory would likely ask for expensive things, perhaps even their own Cathedral of the Nine, or a library. Greyguard: A fancy name for the outpost of the thieve's guild, a choice for less-than-reputable leaders. They cause no change to any of the meters (having them would drop security, but they offer advance information -- it'd cancel out). Members of this guild are able to steal things for the player, thus generating a hidden, personal income. They may offer information, which the player can use (a rival is seeking to do X to person Y, you need to stop them). Another thing I thought strange was the talk of how each house could be upgraded from a shack to a manse. While it would be positive, such a lavish home wouldn't exactly breed workers. On one hand, perhaps doing that could cut production but boost happiness. On another hand, there are always going to be poor people (in medieval times, at least, they made up the bulk of society) so having a number of shacks with simple workers would be more realistic. I think that this would excel if each action had a reaction. If you build a port, you will get shipments from outside the island -- people would send things, perhaps even invest on island companies. At the same time, a ship may come (periodically) with brigands, who seek to overthrow the island or overtake the port-city. Perhaps building a port is a milestone, and a company comes. They want to do business - do you accept it? If they do so, you take in less money (the company would take a good chunk of the profits, since they are the ones working) but you suddenly free up all of those, for example, mine workers. Perhaps the player could guide the direction of the island, too. Does he/she want the island to be some sort of 'retreat' where rich people come to stay? Or perhaps have the people worked to the bone, suffering always but knowing they can never escape, because his/her thugs control the ports? Decisions could determine this, such as having an advisor ask "What should be the standards of work?" Having them work each day would bring in vast amounts of wealth, but the people would suffer. Having them work once or twice a week turns out horrid profits and income, but the people become so happy that word spreads, and others flock to live in luxury. Guards of the isle, I think, ought be customizable, as well as being able to have player interactions. And ranks. They would start out as simple recruits, work their way up the ladder to a certain point (let's say recruit - footman - soldier). Does the player have soldiers who wear bulky armor, chainmail? Perhaps sword-dancers who just wear simple clothing, but are highly agile? Military encounters would be interesting, as well. The island would not likely be uninhabited -- are there goblins, perhaps lead by some devilish minotaur? So the troops would have to engage them. If the player joins along, he/she could see them in action and judge for his/herself how things go. Maybe he can raise soldiers who performed well to a higher status (Elite soldier) which improves their level and equipment (at the cost of only having a few, max.) Or maybe Elite soldiers are captains, and each captain can have a few soldiers. That would keep the player from getting some gargantuan army, and would add another level to the mod. At a certain point, the player can hire or create a captain. The captain expands the number of available guards by, say, three. Depending on the size of the island, there could be two or three captains, guarding a small place, or a dozen spread out over the entire area. As to income, Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir uses a merchant system that, instead of gold, has 'trade bars'. Trade bars are described as a bar of metal with their company's mark stamped on them. They had no value of themselves, but were instead representive of some value. That would make them less cumbersome (which is easier: one trade bar, or 150 gold coins?) and a thief would not find them useful at all. To steal a trade bar would steal a piece of metal, with no value in and of itself. And to get value, a thief would have to trade it in for gold somewhere -- thus, the thief would have to turn his/herself in. Naturally, gold would still have some value on the island. While trade bars would be used to trade for things on the mainland, giving it to a farmer for a loaf of bread would not seem to be a fair trade. So, income could come in two forms: trade bars, to help build the island and expand the populace. Gold, in a periodic payment, would be the the player's paycheck for being the island's leader/rulers/tyrant, etc. As to how the player acquires the island, I have an idea... "Dear [Charactername], For the last X years, my fellows on the Elder Council have had some problems on a myriad of issues, but one that still exists could potentially be of vast use in these dangerous times. There is an island under Imperial dominion that has been used for practically nothing since its discovery. Normally, a single island would not be of great concern to the Council, except that this one has verdent farmlands, expansive forests, and deep mines filled with valuable ore. The other political powers, be they a duke or just a councillor, have wanted to turn the island into one thing or another. Some feel it ought be strip mined, but the councillors of Valenwood are steadfast in their defense of the forests. Some feel it ought be used as a noble's retreat...yet others disagree, given the problems that have arisen in Kvatch. With the assault of Oblivion, the island has far more use practically than that. Therefore, a few of my allies in the Council have given me their support in a dangerous choice -- one which, I hope, you will not fail me on. Hell has broken loose, and with the Legion pulled away to defend all of our territory, we are in danger of having the Empire fall to pieces. You proved to be valiant in your defense of Kvatch, and when I walk the halls I can hear bards composing songs, calling you a hero, a savior, a champion of our people. The late emperor himself saw greatness in you, the hope of our empire, and I plan to honor my good friend's last wish. Therefore, Hero of Kvatch, I have made a bold move. We barely managed to secure the vote, and I am placing my position on the line. This island has so much opportunity, and could easily be used to keep this empire whole. You have the island -- I have included the deed to the lands with this messenger. However, the whole island is not just yours, and you are expected to aid the empire during this troubled time. Your first task is to produce (a mid-sized amount) units of stone, wood, and ingots. You will have three weeks, from when you present this letter to the quartermaster on the island [iE: Three weeks after you start the island quests, so the player isn't forced into moving to the island] before a collection ship will come. By then, please have the goods ready so we can continue to support the empire. Should you not have the amount available, I will give you a short extension -- but we need those resources more than ever during these trying times. I also send warning. Many of my peers are unhappy with my move, and want to reap the rewards themselves. Be prepared for them to act against you. Chancellor Ocato Imperial Battlemage" Reasoning: With the fall of Kvatch, the people need a hero. They look to the player for salvation, especially since the red-tape-loving Council seems intent on pursuing their own agendas. Ocato needs to maintain a hand on the Elder Council, so that the empire stays whole. By backing the Hero of Kvatch, Ocato strengthens his position politcally and morally, in the eyes of the people. Plus, the player gets a goal: three weeks to produce a modest amount of resources (a small enough amount to easily be excess, but still a goal that the player must achieve) and the mod gets antagonists: the dukes and duchesses of the empire, who want the land for themself and want to ruin the player. Anyhoo...just some ideas I thought of while reading the thread. Hope it proves to be useful! -F