retnav98

In response to post #25172884. ...I was thinking the same thing re. what they were REALLY trying to do. Total Biscuit's interview can be summed up with I question.... How could they Be so WRONG about their own Market?... The idea that they were trying to create turmoil explains it far better than the idea that they were making stupid decisions. Now I know people HAVE and will again say, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." ...pay attention to the adverb "ADEQUATELY" In order to apply Hanlon's Razor to Valve's benefit one has to believe that their business decision was Malicious instead of simply Business. In addition, you have to believe that Valve is managed by Ignorant people... So let's stipulate that Valve is NEITHER malicious NOR ignorant... Using Occam's Razor...the simpler explanation prevails. Even if the program had been allowed to continue, there would still be animosity within the community .

In response to post #25025599. #25028149, #25035034, #25047559, #25047774, #25048554, #25050269, #25099939, #25101949, #25103094, #25103539, #25108729, #25109249, #25110729, #25114309, #25115444, #25117929, #25126749, #25130219, #25131554, #25133174, #25134429, #25135179, #25137384, #25138564 are all replies on the same post. I've heard this said before and I don't understand it completely...If the owner of the property amends their EULA for their purposes, that doesn't void their rights does it? If they subsequently terminate the the action that amended the EULA, they still retain rights do they not? I just don't see how they violated any agreement...the EULA is not an agreement to themselves. EDIT: I read up on Oculus Rift .. Luckey had established a pre-existing body of work. It amounted to a product that really needed only aesthetic changes and backing to market...Zenimax's claim was capricious and foolhardy, but it may have been an attempt to do more than just cash in on the Facebook investment... However the decision came about the result was an epic fail. It may point to greed...or POOR business decision making, but the arguement that Zenimax only brought suit when "Deep Pocket" emerged, is an irony since MOST suits are brought because there is money being lost or money to be gained.

In response to post #25025599. #25028149, #25035034, #25047559, #25047774, #25048554, #25050269, #25099939, #25101949, #25103094, #25103539, #25108729, #25109249, #25110729, #25114309, #25115444, #25117929, #25126749, #25130219, #25131554, #25133174, #25134429, #25135179 are all replies on the same post. And that will work just fine...until it grows to the point that those who own the rights to the Game...decide the assets being generated, exceed the cost to litigate... Robin/NEXUS has 9 million users. He has to go 'hat in hand' to Bethesda because his potential to take significant revenue is VERY REAL...Bethesda would Stomp a MUDHOLE in his ASS if there was ever a sense that NEXUS was anything but a BENEFIT to them.

In response to post #25025599. #25028149, #25035034, #25047559, #25047774, #25048554, #25050269, #25099939, #25101949, #25103094, #25103539, #25108729, #25109249, #25110729, #25114309, #25115444, #25117929, #25126749, #25130219, #25131554 are all replies on the same post. I wasn't specifically referring to modders...Valve has a 75% market share....Let that sink in a second...3/4 of ALL games sold on the internet are marketed through ONE source... That source competes indirectly with sites like Nexus and ModDB and Torrent and a variety of sites that simply offer reviews and tutorials. Some don't charge for membership and privilege, some do but they offer data that keeps users from being exposed to the STEAM sales pitch...the game sales...the cards, the Indy game releases, the forums.If the community isn't logged in to STEAM..STEAM is losing money...So disabling those sites...brings the user back to "The WalMart of Gaming". Up until recently, Bethesda had literally forgotten Skyrim. Then out of the blue...they work with STEAM to change the CK... Bethesda was brought into this by Valve on the promise of renewed revenues. If it had worked, STEAM would get those modders and the community that had migrated away...to return... The benefit to them was the percentage of profit leveraged with minimal exposure to cost...but the REAL benefit is the amount of people returned to the larger marketplace...spending money on things OTHER THAN mods for Skyrim.

In response to post #25025599. #25028149, #25035034, #25047559, #25047774, #25048554, #25050269, #25099939, #25101949, #25103094, #25103539, #25108729, #25109249, #25110729, #25114309, #25115444, #25117929, #25126749 are all replies on the same post. The truth is YOU Wulf' chose your words...not the comunity. Whether 'You' is singular or plural...your choice of words never made a distinction between those who's motives were completely selfish and those who didn't enter into the fray at all. To make so glaring an oversight , not even hinting at a contrast, and then even when acknowledging a difference adjudging that a SIDE was chosen...is simply 'Doubling Down' on your failed perspective. Your 'If / Then' proposal I assume is referring to profit after cost. (You can't possibly believe that costs can be reduced to 5%). As I have stated before, I have no right to tell a Modder how much is FAIR. The Market does that... What you need to understand is the MARKET also includes those who will take FAR more than what is deserved...and in the REAL scenario, those who fall under that description weren't just the segment of the comunity who were AGAINST monetization .

In response to post #25025599. #25028149, #25035034, #25047559, #25047774, #25048554, #25050269, #25099939, #25101949, #25103094, #25103539, #25108729, #25109249, #25110729, #25114309 are all replies on the same post. Wulfharth, Check my profile, when was the last download? How many endorsements? YOU Wulf' keep making claims that I adhere to a sense of entitlement,without knowing a thing about me. I haven't Played SKYRIM in nearly a Month. I actually resolved to quit playing before this episode. That choice came as a result of an exchange I had with Elsopa ( ICBINE 1,2,3) It irked me that he was quite affable when people were speaking his praises, but when one spoke of an issue, his first response was , "Obviously, you failed to follow directions". When I couldn't immediately get his mod to work, I didn't give him a chance. But since this episode, I have come to see that simply endorsing, and commenting isn't enough... we ALL need to be our BETTER SELVES. I apologized to him for my negative attitude. In addition, I have challenged those who seem to have accepted things as true...Bullcpc continued to push the Idea that Valve offered accurate percentages...but when he was finally shown that the percentages were NOT correct, he simply left. The thing is...Bullcpc is PRO MODDER! and is not against pay mods...our exchange regardless of who was right or wrong CHANGED NOTHING. People who acted so ingraciously, are not here still...people who's Impirical proofs failed are not here either. The only people still here are Pathetic Old men like me who take Heart Meds and make it outside once a week..and People like YOU who somehow believe that EVERYONE will feel ashamed and regretful because Wulf' and Caldan' have stopped modding.

In response to post #25025599. #25028149, #25035034, #25047559, #25047774, #25048554, #25050269, #25099939, #25101949, #25103094, #25103539, #25108729, #25109249, #25110729 are all replies on the same post. @ Caladan', First of all I respect you and your right to get paid...but your shortcomings with the English language are no longer something to be set aside. I do NOT agree with Vesuvius and I never have, at least not that I recall. People were assholes during this ...I WASN'T one of them! Run that through your translator a few times and MEMORIZE IT. Then go check my previous posts...pay particular attention to the post where I apologized directly to you Caladan' for my part in opposing VALVE. With that said, I will not suffer ignorance. Those who had NO sense of shame over how they treated MODDERS. are as selfish as those would choose to blame EVERYONE for something that may actually have been cancelled NOT because of the CHILDISH few, but because VALVE had legal issues vis a vis DMCA... So when yet another Claims to be Boycotting, I have to ask...WHO are you boycotting? Everyone who behaved poorly...or simply EVERYONE. Are you Boycotting NEXUS, because Dark0ne has made his views very clear. Are you boycotting everyone who doesn't weep at your feet and ask for forgiveness?

In response to post #25025599. #25028149, #25035034, #25047559, #25047774, #25048554, #25050269, #25099939, #25101949, #25103094, #25103539 are all replies on the same post. When "I" is only associated with Positive and Honorable and the more general "YOU" is always NEGATIVE...it is called NARCISSISM. Congratulations on the JOB and best wishes on finding a new friend.

In response to post #25025599. #25028149, #25035034, #25047559, #25047774, #25048554, #25050269, #25099939, #25101949 are all replies on the same post. @wulfharth, So the Mechanic has no other friends that he would gladly help? He simply Quit? I think your scenario doesn't make your "MECHANIC" look very good either.

In response to post #24997179. #24997739, #25000969, #25001074, #25002429, #25002999, #25003089, #25006504, #25010279, #25012879, #25020594, #25021179, #25021829, #25022179, #25042124, #25059069, #25093179 are all replies on the same post. @Bretwalda, Speaking for those closer to 60, Premium and BEST VALUE are not always the same. Valve chose to offer a product they knew was not worth the money...but that's what they do...they offer over 4500 games, but they HAVE offered COUNTLESS others...They don't spend money trying to determine what is and isn't good...they throw it ALL into the mix and let it play out according to the consumer's whim. It kinda explains why they took the weekend off when others were concerned for the backlash... Valve knew there would be a backlash...they HAD to know...they may even have counted on it. Aside from the 4 paragraphs announcing their cancellation...they have simply dropped the issue and moved on.

In response to post #24997179. #24997739, #25000969, #25001074, #25002429, #25002999, #25003089, #25006504, #25010279, #25012879, #25020594, #25021179, #25021829, #25022179 are all replies on the same post. @Caladanaldur, This is literally the last people still talking about paymods...and that's because most people realize there's nothing to talk about...nothing being gained...even verifying that the words/numbers don't match the actions doesn't change anyone's mind. I was just reading Gabe and Robin's exchange on reddit... [–]NexusDark0ne 2284 points 11 days ago* If there's anyone who understands your plight in being pressured in to more conservative policing of content based on personal views, beliefs and opinions, it's me. The Nexus is known to host some of the most liberal content out there and we're lambasted for it on many sides. Some game devs won't even touch us because of it. But my personal opinion remains the same, irrespective of whether I agree with or like the content (and there's plenty of stuff on the Nexus I'm really not a fan of), if I take down one file for insulting certain sensitivities, where do I draw the line? Who's line? My line? Your line? So yeah, you're preaching to the choir on that one. However, we're not talking about limiting types of content, we're talking about the functionality of Steam being used to fundamentally change a principle tenet of the modding community that's existed since the very beginning. That is, the principle that the sharing of mods can be free and open to everyone, if they so wish, and that that choice remains squarely in the hands of the people who develop those mods. Please, do not misunderstand me, I believe I've made myself clear that if certain mod platforms want to explore paid modding then they can, for better or for worse, but I am categorically against the concept of mods only being allowed to be shared online, with others, through only one platform. I'm against the concept of modders not having a choice. While a lot of melodrama has ensued from Valve and Bethesda's actions this week, I absolutely believe that you would be destroying a key pillar of modding if you were to allow your service to be used in such a way. I appreciate you cannot dictate what developers do outside and off of Steams services, but Steam is Valve's service, and you can control how your service is used. permalinkparent [–]GabeNewellBellevueCONFIRMED VALVE CEO 1337 points 11 days ago the principle that the sharing of mods can be free and open to everyone Completely 100% agree. What's he agreeing 100% to?....everything Robin said?...or just the part about controlling STEAM? You and a good number of modders will continue to live in this moment...to harbor anger and resentment...and many users including you, will realize that their free mods, no longer have the quality that we ALL once enjoyed...this will remind you of your resentment and it becomes self-perpetuating....neither user nor modder wins...and the one who comes away unscathed...is the one sitting in a coffee shop in Bellvue sipping a Latte and casually dismissing 3400 emails.

In response to post #25014199. When it is stated in dec of '11 that over 10 million copies have been sold and then in their most recent 2015 totals of over 23 million units sold accross all platforms.are they ONLY referring to games that come from Brick and Mortar stores ...and only those games that users put into a bag and walk out the store with? Let's consider that Bethesda sold Valve the right to market Skyrim. so that Valve could modulate the price as they saw/see fit...Is the number of copies of Skyrim that are part of the STEAM CLOUD separate? What I'm thinking is the 14% not changing even a fraction of a percent from year to year, could be based on UNITS PRODUCED for each platform, that means it is not only statistically plausible...its completely understandable/logical that the number would not include games that don't specifically fall under the three headings. If the numbers don't take Cloud games into account, it explains the statistical disagreement AND it points to a motive. The One BoogaBoo here is DRMification...and it seems to be important for Industry leaders to be able to say we are against it.

In response to post #24997179. #24997739, #25000969, #25001074, #25002429, #25002999, #25003089, #25006504, #25010279, #25012879, #25021179, #25021829, #25022179 are all replies on the same post. You have Dark0ne's own explanation of a timeline of events from his perspective, You have the Total biscuit interview...Discussing Impressions by people directly connected to those making the VALVE/Bethesda decisions and releases. Those aren't Random sources...nor are they "half-baked" opinions. They don't make the leap I have. Which may mean I am off-base...it may also be because they are in Business with these people and would be ending their career if they did. Your need to see numbers and statistics is already satisfied and in front of you..Harbringe and Jason' have both sited variations that do not square with the 14%. You seem to have responded that if we are unable to accept the 14% the only thing one must assume is the improbable belief that STEAM is unaware of how many games were sold....which I say is not the ONLY conclusion one can or must consider. If the 14% is in error or not up-to-date...then the percentage of people involved in modding is also incorrect. and we come back to the question repeatedly asked in the TB discussion...How could they get this so completely wrong and how are they so disconnected from the very Community they say they were trying to reward? I never said modders don't have a right to make money...My very first post on this Forum boiled down to 2 points...People have seen this coming and we shouldn't be surprised at the move,we should be surprised at the manner it was done. My second point was that we should not judge people harshly for their decision to charge for their mods. I have not abandoned ANY position. Though I have come to publicly express regret for my choice to boycott. I cited the practice to Ban users who requested refunds. You needed clarification as if I was the first to bring it up and had no grasp of cause and effect but you are perfectly willing to write it off as an anomaly attributed to the 1st 5 days of a launch (Growing Pains?). Evidently, I should simply ignore that this is a Company with more than a decade of experience in Sales.. 125 million active users and the source for 75% of ALL on-line PC Game sales. I certainly seems that it is YOU who are abandoning and shifting. in march of 2014 ARS Technica http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/introducing-steam-gauge-ars-reveals-steams-most-popular-games/ Estimated that 5.94 Million STEAM members owned Skyrim that would suggest that PC game users were near 30% since at this point, Bethesda was reporting only 20 million total? I have asked Harbringe but I'll ask you as well, Is it possible that Bethesda's sales numbers do not include Steam downloads? What the site seems to be saying is their sampling has an up/down margin of error @ 3%...so even if we assume they are 3% high...that's still indicates more than 28% of total sales IF we are now including Skyrim Download sales as separate from Bethesda's.

In response to post #24997179. #24997739, #25000969, #25001074, #25002429, #25002999, #25003089, #25006504 are all replies on the same post. It has been explained ad infinitum that Valve and Bethesda were and are endowed with an Extensive knowledge base in All aspects of Gaming... Just like things that are too good to be true, Excuses/decisions that defy the understanding of the rest of the Industry (too implausible to be true) are ALSO usually untrue. I have read posts that estimate PC sales as high as 8.8 million..These estimates come from a variety of sources, You seem to be saying that they ALL are in error and the numbers/percentages that were originally projected sales just two days after release and are identical to what was represented as up-to-date...is pure coincidence.. Maybe I'm missing your concession... It has been reported and confirmed that people who returned games for refund, were banned for a week. The reason (supposedly) was that it is policy to restrict unconfirmed payments...and it was a countermeasure to potential CC theft ..Who steals their Mommy's CC then asks for a refund? Notice, they didn't delay the purchase for a week. They allowed the user to have the mod, the Ban was enforced when a refund was requested. The punitive result of this policy Hurts sales...if users are discouraged from refunding...the more likely result is the USER will no longer BUY MODS... "How can you be so obtuse?" Andy Dufresne

In response to post #24997179. #24997739, #25000969, #25001074, #25002429, #25002999 are all replies on the same post. I agree...I don't have a right to tell people what compensation for THEIR efforts is fair. Does that mean that I should remain silent while I am aware that LIES and misinformation is being foisted? The liability they incur is only the cost of a refund, which they did honor while simultaneously penalizing the USER. Does that response HELP Modders?. It would be reasonable to infer that this response was hurtful to modders; it kind of looks like Valve was NOT supporting the Modders at all. You gotta wonder what the end-game was...It might be they were not all on the same page at Bethesda and Valve. What if they WERE all mindful of an endgame that was NOT what they publicly asserted...We're seeing that statistics cited were not credible...WHAT ELSE?