retnav98

In response to post #24907724. Skyrim is a GAME...that has exceeded its shelflife. I watch the feedback from the Valve announcement .nearing 5000 responses to the " We STILL think there are good ideas here" Yada yada yada. The commenters may have had Console copies of Skyrim.. I did, and then I purchased the game 2 more times for PC and spent 2 more years playing and modding. The majority of response posts come from people who have little to NO recent involvement with the PC game. So who are they? Who is screaming one minute and then offering their new-found respect the next? I'd say that there was some dastardly agenda afoot if it weren't for the simple truth...TESV has reached 8% of it's original sale price; Its time is past as Games go. It'll be hard NOT to look back..

In response to post #24838714. #24841759, #24842129, #24844344, #24844739, #24845434, #24845714, #24847419, #24848004, #24848174, #24848329, #24849004, #24850284 are all replies on the same post. AMAZING....I don't expect you to read all my posts, but if you did you would read a man who has adjusted his thinking, and as a result of taking in the viewpoints of others is taking a hard look at himself... Maybe just like your post to Vesuvius, you're really confused about what you're saying and who you're saying it to...I really don't care to know what your motives or failed logics are.. I was too old to be playing kids games 40 years ago. Its time I left.

In response to post #24838714. #24841759, #24842129, #24844344, #24844739, #24845434, #24845714, #24847419, #24848004, #24848174, #24848329 are all replies on the same post. xavathos, don't know if you've listened to this interview . its nearly 2 hrs long. Sunshinebrick "Nudged" me with it..before she poured herself to bed. it was very informative for me. bottom line I think that You're right, both sides are at fault. I believe though, that a person's attitude and a person's rights are not synonymous. You may believe you're entitled to something and be completely deluding yourself. You may also give an attitude of entitlement because YOU ARE entitled..Foster WAS entitled to submit her mods for pay. But at the moment that Valve established the policy, as Cynical Brit interview exposes, that submission process never really got started...One could say that the Boycott Worked...but as was also revealed...Valve knew there would be a Loud, contentious and immediate response. So the question is, what triggered the cessation if on the same day it was pulled Bethesda stated (as Gaben had the day before) that the Model would continue.? Could it be that this whole thing was a subterfuge? concocted solely to create disharmony within the community...was it triggered so suddenly because just days before , Dark0ne had blogged that Nexus would Forever be a Free modding site? Could Gaben have been attempting to regain the allegiance of Veteran/Elite Modders ? It is possible too that this really was an absolute failure in judgement by a guy who turned STEAM into what Dark0ne called the Walmart of gaming. It is possible that this was a test run for future game releases... It is clear though that the usually keen-witted and "Scholarly" GABEN decision making, was Epicly WRONG on Pay Mods for Skyrim. and if he'd simply asked others who had as much or more understanding of the community, he may at least have taken a more gradual approach. Your last paragraph has me a bit puzzled, I have a difficult time reading between the lines, but it seemed as if you were saying that my attitude should include donating money more frequently endorsing more and being generally more supportive of modders. I frankly find the admonition to change my attitude to fit in with the community not simply fingerpointing, but elitist and bordering on illegal. ...I will modulate my "Attitude"according to My values...not as a result of some late-night impudent half-threat.

In response to post #24838714. #24841759, #24842129, #24844344, #24844739, #24845434, #24845714 are all replies on the same post. Vesuvius, I didn't say we don't have a right to tell her we are not happy with what that decision means to us, or to attempt to discourage her...I think we have to listen to each other...and I think Foster has done that and then some... In fact, Foster has done far more Listening than the people who proclaimed a " VICTORY for US." Consider that those who lobby'd against Pay Mods (myself included) didn't spend a whole lot of time before we took our stand; granted, we didn't have a lot of time. Then before people like Foster and Favored' and Nightasy ...etc...etc...etc could clear their throats to reply...VALVE cancelled the whole episode. You and others may be convinced you're in the right and were all along...I no longer am... I used Nexus for a couple years without ever engaging the community...I primarily downloaded from Modders Resources, and after seeing all the best modders leaving STEAM, I eventually ONLY downloaded content through NEXUS. Because so much of what I was taking from the community was given to support new Modders, I rarely failed to endorse them..but still, I never paid a donation... I have a Great appreciation for modders and the effort to make mods...and all the more for the effort involved in dealing with users...But because I never really engaged authors directly, I never guessed that money would be so divisive...Other communities may have proven that when Money was introduced, the community disolved, but that could only have been true if there was also a segment that would rather see the community die than to allow it. And others who would rather quit modding than give of themselves to people who would not listen to them.

In response to post #24838714. #24841759, #24842129 are all replies on the same post. Oh my...I long for the days when my Heart and Physique could endure a night of Black and Tans..That unsatiated yearning is caused not by the good beer but the pack and a half of Marlboros each day for 35 years... When you get older interest on debt doesn't keep your hands shaking as much as prescription costs...then again..that's probably less an issue on your side of the pond. It would be nice, but I honestly don't believe that Valve or Bethesda will ever say they are in support of modders, or providing a polished and reasonably priced game for their faithful users....THEN, actually showing that they are sincere.

In response to post #24832564. #24833079, #24833104, #24833179, #24833249, #24833549, #24833659, #24833844, #24834234, #24834574, #24834934, #24835054, #24835429, #24836069, #24836109, #24836554, #24837014, #24837104, #24838089, #24838739, #24838869, #24839779 are all replies on the same post. Vesuvius, And I didn't say he did either..I said he had ho reason to degrade people, he's the one who used those words.

In response to post #24838714. Many of us smell that same rat.. But I have to give it to Foster, who is still here discussing and explaining her position...while conceding some side issues, her main point as I understand it is simply that WE don't have the right to tell her or FavoredSoul or the SKYUI team or any MODDER that they can't make money from their mods. Getting sued, fair market compensation..that's still NOT our call. Opinions over Greed, good faith...that's just people trying to cling to a system that had NO options for modders. And if you're a modder who would never consider charging, then that's your values and your position...It doesn't make it wrong to believe differently. It's Their decision.

In response to post #24832564. #24833079, #24833104, #24833179, #24833249, #24833549, #24833659, #24833844, #24834234, #24834574, #24834934, #24835054, #24835429, #24836069, #24836109, #24836554, #24837014, #24837104 are all replies on the same post. We're not friends.. I disagree with HER...but Her most consistent and unshakable point is one I have come to agree with...it's her choice. I wasn't calling names..I was simply identifying ..like in Biology...Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family... Just calling it the way I see it.

In response to post #24832564. #24833079, #24833104, #24833179, #24833249, #24833549, #24833659, #24833844, #24834234, #24834574, #24834934, #24835054, #24835429, #24836069, #24836109, #24836554 are all replies on the same post. @Wolvenlight I get your point to a degree.. I would question the level of liability a publisher (or any of your other examples) shares...and the percentage of cost they absorb... I honestly cannot see that Valve maintained any more cost than they did with mods that were free...now if any of your examples involved the option of FREE books, music, food in direct competition with PAID, you might have a more cogent point.

In response to post #24832564. #24833079, #24833104, #24833179, #24833249, #24833549, #24833659, #24833844, #24834234, #24834574, #24834934, #24835054, #24835429, #24836069, #24836109 are all replies on the same post. You know lerredit, You're a 3 inch wart infested D1CK! Just kidding. Actually...I'm not. There's NO reason to degrade people. The fact that you're separated by firewalls makes you all the more pathetic.

In response to post #24832564. #24833079, #24833104, #24833179, #24833249, #24833549, #24833659, #24833844, #24834234, #24834574, #24834934, #24835054 are all replies on the same post. I fully support your right to sell your talents and your products...And I regret not seeing your side of the arguement better four days ago. Valve and Bethesda say they wanted to expand the means to support Modders. Taken with the STEAM User agreement that essentially says, anything you post here is OUR PROPERTY...means there must have been a different legal agreement for a PAY modder. Allowing you to sell your talents at 25 cents on the Dollar while being tethered to that mod and all of the potential bugs or incompatibilities doesn't seem to be equitable to ME...but its your choice... If you as the author are thorough in your work and patient with users.and people willing to pay abound...all is rosy. But let's say the guy buying doesn't have TES5Edit Just bought his copy of Skyrim for 9.99...and is just lost. You, who spent 9 hrs at work dealing with a distribution fowl up that would've cost you your weeks profit if not resolved, must now contend with the same idiocy you've had to with in the past...except NOW these people DEMAND your attention because they spent 49c. You lay into him like he tried to take your BIRTHDAY. NOW you got a problem on your hands because you defamed him and he's suing for pain and suffering to the tune of $5,000.00.

In response to post #24832564. #24833079, #24833104, #24833179, #24833249, #24833549, #24833659, #24833844 are all replies on the same post. Foster, Clearly there was a different attitude toward potential legal issues or Valve and Bethesda's "Million Dollar Lawyers" wouldn't have bothered to divest themselves of the legal responsibility. Valve chose to treat those who asked for immediate refunds as disruptive...they locked people out from being able to buy for a week...that policy wasn't benefitting modders. It was another move to eliminate loss due to "Buyer's remorse..Mod incompatibility or w/e the purchaser had for breakfast that caused them to reconsider their purchase. You know Good and well that STEAM is a DAYCARE...and you had to figure that they would Unleash 'BOB and throw fits. You know more than how the REAL WORLD works..you know how that world works...So why did you believe this was ever going to work? I'll second Sunshine's question from the original thread, " Do you support this Business Model"?

In response to post #24832564. She already got it handed to her in the thread you're pulling this post from...C'mon man...

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589 are all replies on the same post. I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING. I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784 are all replies on the same post. Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry. I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest. It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.