MofoMojo

Nskin039, This is definitely the case when you're in "mortal form" or using the "mask" (we actually haven't settled on a permanent name for this entrely) for the very reason you state. Because you've switched races. The Vampire races have their own form of response, as you've well seen. While not something I plan to implement for the intial public release it is probably a matter of adjusting a few conversation dialogue trees to get them to say their original lines on top of the vampire lines if you're NOT in mortal form. Might be nice for the immersion aspect. -MM

Welcome to the thread LonerFO! And thank you for the kind words! I hope you stay around and offer some feedback and support! We're doing a limited initial release to get things feeling just right out of the box for the public release. There's a good deal of customization for those that don't like <some of> our settings and we're very eager to release this soon! -MM

All, So I built out the framework for the hunger stages. Just to let you know that we've expanded it out a small bit. There are now six stages to hunger. Satiated = Stage 5 Unsatiated = Stage 4 Hungry = Stage 3 Famished = Stage 2 Ravenous = Stage 1 Starved = Stage 0 The stage you are in is determined by whatever BeluaMaxSatiatedLevel you set. Default is 100 so this is how it scales out: Satiated = 100-81 Unsatiated 80-61 Hungry 60-41 Famished 40-21 Ravenous 20-1 Starved 0 Basically each stage is approximately 20% of your BeluaMaxSatiatedLevel, with Starved always being 0 satiation. You still have control over when the hunger special effects kick in (i.e. ALWAYS ON SENSE BLOOD) and when AOS kicks in though the values for controlling that have changed. Where they were a number between 0 and your max, now it's just a stage value and any stage that you're in, including and below that value, will trigger hunger effects and AOS so if you still want AOS on all the time, you can do it by setting BeluaHungeredAOSLevel to 5. Why did we do that? We're going to attempt to scale out hunger effects so that your level of hunger isn't just binary Off or On and has some sense of impending doom (as well as benefit) rather than ... "oh I can wait it out another 3 hours in daylight here with this shade". So now it's all wired up, and I just have to setup the weaknesses to kick in on the various stages and make some tweaks to some of the existing spells that used the old mechanics. I think once this is done, we'll be ready for release of the private beta. If you're not set to be on the beta and want to be, please ping Jakisthe. Last night I almost made it to Master without cheating, but still with having a follower that lets me feed on her whenever. I added some additional tweaks to the mod. When you feed, it makes a bloody mess. Sneak Feed has some different visuals, the victim will fall to the ground in one of three different poses, bleeding out for a moment and then get back up. I may even make them dazed and "drunk" for a few moments. I reworked the effect shaders for "Quasi Caligo" spell (Become as Mist/Fog) to get more of the effect flowing around the player. It needs some additional work. I also changed the audio based on Nskin039's feedback to something a little more subtle and while it's still a sound loop, it has less of the looping sound feel. There's added sounds associated with Harvest Heart now, you hear a fast heartbeat, then a slow beat, then none at all. I don't recall if I mentioned this but on top of the chance to get a "Fresh Heart (Healthy)" vs. "Fresh Heart (Damaged)" you now have a chance to get a "Destroyed Heart". The chances to get a destroyed heart over any other heart is a flat 25%. If you pass that check then your chances of getting a Damaged vs Healthy scale out based on Vampire Level. The higher your vampire level the more likely you'll get a Healthy heart. At lower levels even the damaged hearts are very useful, perhaps not so much at higher levels. I think the feel of it is right. I did this to reduce the overall amount of hearts that could just be harvested in general. Last night I finally got attacked by my second radiant quest. It was unexpected and worked as it was intended. Although we were in a confined space and killed my assailants quickly, I still wasn't quick enough to harvest both hearts. It's working as intended. I hope to have a lot of time this weekend to put the remaining features into place. Who knows, if the nights are good to me, I'll have them added in the next day or two. -MM

Darksun, Agreed. This provides a very powerful way for the player to move through the world, as they can switch into mist form and fly until their mana runs out and then can sprint until their stamina runs out. There are some caveats to the mist form however. You can't use it while in combat. Granted, sprint CAN be used while in combat and ... is a very effective way to run away from things. I'm not sure how to handle that or if it should be. So, I added one more feature tonight, and that was "Sense Dead". Not sense the undead, just sense dead. It's like Detect Life/Sense Blood but....blue hued. Quite useful for finding dead bodies... :) So I'm still playing out using my original 1st level vampire, who is now 8th level and about 1/2 way through Risen requirements and really only because he keeps a follower. I noticed tonight that I was REALLY using sleep as a crutch to skip the daytime. It didn't start out that way, but at some point I started doing it. Primarily because I didn't pay the price of sleeping and going hungry. So I removed the "safe from hunger" mechanics with sleep altogether. The only time you're safe from hunger if you sleep, is if you progress/regress to the next stage. You'll be reset at that point. Thanks nskin039 for putting that thought in my head. Jakisthe got some of the weakness information to me tonight and I've done a onceover of the work that may be involved. Ideas about implementation are setting in... This could get interesting. -MM

You are invisible in this form. NPCs will not comment on your appearance. What I've done is implemented my SunTracker. You can use the spell any time of the day, but if it considers you to be in damaging sunlight it will dispell the effect. This allows you to use it on overcast days. Be wary... :) Perhaps a little of both. It's the frostbite sound fx which is a looping FX. I'd rather just have some sort of nice windy sound but going through all the wind sounds didn't produce a good candidate. Edit. Watch this post. I'll have another video up in a moment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCztiqr1ey0&feature=youtube_gdata I'll give it a go, but there's nothing I can do to disable the user from going into the ESC menu and saving if it does cause a problem. Edit: Seems to preserve the status just fine. You're a little LESS transparent on reload but you return back to normal and no switchups. No worry on the posts. I do not have Formus Chropteras up or even prototyped yet. Flying (amongst the modding community) in general is just such a hack job at its current stage. Hardly any collision detection, etc,. Something I could spend MANY hours trying to perfect and there are plenty of people smarter than I that haven't gotten a great implementation done so the time has best been spent on other things. It's still in the plans though. Edit: I'm thinking this should only be for Sires. Sires are just stronger right now, and get one additional spell (Conjure Storms). They really need some more to strive for. Not that more aren't planned and weren't planned for the start, I just haven't gotten a chance to implement them and some are more challenging than others. There's really no more low hanging fruit for the Sire Spells if you know what I mean. :) -MM

Nskin039, Here's how hunger works in our game. It's completely configurable to your likings. There are two values HungerDropDurationSeconds HungerDropAmount The first value is how long to wait in seconds of ingame time before dropping the satiated level. So regardless of how fast ot slow you speed up time, it's going to drop appropriately. I do some math to even find out how many seconds have passed since we last performed a hunger check just in case the check is slower than the dropduration so it calculates the right percentage of drop. So yes, if you have the DropDurationSeconds and the DropAmount setup so you go from full satiation to starving in 72 hours, then regardless of the time mod, in 72 game hours you'll be starving if you don't feed. Inicdentally, our mod puts the FULL SATIATION to FULL STARVED just under ... 28.5 hours. Update: Here's me testing out Transform Fog again... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXYnPaqzdqA&feature=youtube_gdata -MM

@Phil, Thank you much for the feedback. It's been very helpful. And we look forward to your safe return! As for longer nights, shorter days. This isn't something I plan on implementing, just a consideration to the question of its use. While the Vampire is truly at home in the darkness, he's a slave more to his hunger as he can avoid the sunlight but can't avoid the hunger. Even with the mod that Phil was testing, you would have seen the same LEVEL of hunger because during the day, while realtime sunlight exposure passed quicker so did the gametime which meant you starved at an equally faster rate which let me tell you, is no fun to deal with unless you have a follower.... and I'm trying to think of ways to make the follower less of a crutch for you to get by since Followers can't die Followes are usually NOT undead which means you can order them to sleep and can feed from them That's actually how I survived my second day playing. My first I had some truly desperate times but not so much to get to starving, but I also found some bugs around the hunger/feed mechanics so ... thinks might be a little more as we intended than before. -MM

Satiation is 100% related to the passage of ingame time. WAITing will cause you to go hungry. Sleeping will not. The idea was that sleeping was the only way to trigger metamorphisis however, come to think of it now... if you progress or regress your stats are reset so ... hahaha... I'm such a dummy sometimes. Maybe i'll yank that code. The only .... lore... behind making sleeping NOT cause you to go hungry is that you're put into a state of hybernation. Perhaps I'll do just that. Even in hybernation bears and animals consume their own bodyfat during the process. Maybe I'll make sleep calculate a smaller percentage of loss. Like 25% that of the normal loss when sleeping. Now MM....STAY AWAY FROM FEATURE CREEP!!! Actually, having spent two days of tweaking I've got a REALLY solid build done. Only thing left is implement hunger weaknesses, beyond the double daylight damge. It's been so refreshing to drop hours into playing rather than coding and a lot of tweaks have come of it. -MM

Hi Phil11, As for messing things up, it really shouldn't have any impact in a completely negative way. The hunger is not calculated in realtime but in gametime seconds gone by. Early on in the development we actually wanted things to be based on realtime, rather than game time so that "waiting" had no affect, however there are/were challenges with that approach. Waiting SHOULD have an affect on hunger. Even sleeping to some extent although I've disabled that it's entirely possible to hook it back in UNLESS the player sleeps > X hours. So running a mod like that would somewhat hork with the way hunger is calculated... perhaps in an interesting way. i.e. during the day it would be caculated FASTER and during the night slower...theoretically. And then of course, you can tweak all of our settings so.... I might have to check that out! -MM

Daema, Feeding on people will restore health based on the amount of damage you do. It's actually a very effective way to heal in combat as the minimum amount of damage you do when you feed on someone is 25% of their total health. So if your opponent has 200 health and you get a feed attack on them, that will restore 50 health. Note: The 25% minimum does not count toward your satiation damage requirements. When in combat you only get 5% satiation damage counted toward requirements. (quick history for those that aren't aware or haven't read through 42 kickin pages of suggestions and wonderful ideas by everyone) Hearts were implemented conceptually for the following reasons: Restoration Spells for Fledglings are only 66% effective when cast on self. Risens, 33% and Master and on not effective at all. Potions also have no effect on you at Master and on. So with Masters, Progenitors and Sires having absolutely no regenerative abilities OUTISDE of their own higher regenerative rates, they had no way to survive. So... enter hearts. As I was playing through the game, the last two days I found it difficult to go dungon hopping and just exploring and survive. At least until I got a follower. I needed a way for the lone vampire to ... extend their survival rate and so as long as they can harvest a heart, it will restore 5 points of satiation (which is a global value that can be modified). The scale on satiation is only 0-100 (again the upper limit is customizable). So if you do think that life is a bit difficult with only 5 points, you can increase it. However the drop amount is currently set to only 3.5 (configurable) per 3600 (also configurable) in game seconds (1 hour in game time). Now the satiation provided by hearts DOES NOT count toward your goals. It's strinkly a means of preventing hunger. You'll still need to feed and perform feed kills in combat to progress vampirism. So, long run... You'll be able to adjust these values to anything you see fit to work with your play style, or run it out of the box for the experience we intended people to have. :) -MM -MM

So, tonight I focused mainaly on polish and playing through the game...literally with no cheats. Cheating has been necessary to get proper testing done, but I now started as Level 1 and went to Risen level with ZERO cheat. Oh, and one modification. A while back we discussed the idea of hearts restoring satiation. I went ahead and implemented a satiation restore of 5 to hearts (flat across) whether damaged or not. Damaged hearts still provide 100 health, mana and stamina while Healthy hearts restore full across the board. And don't worry...the amount restored by hearts is configurable. IF you don't like the idea, set it to 0. I did this because playing as a level 2 character, actually focusing on being both a vampire, and playing through the quests. Making it TO a dungeon and THROUGH a dungeon and BACK was tremendously difficult to do without getting starved. In dwarven dungeons it'll be inredibly difficult. So what's interesting on the one hand, is do you eat the hearts to regain about 1.2 hours worth of satiation, or save them when you really need them in the heat of a battle. Right now I can recover 1 heart per battle if I'm quick. I may lower the time to harvest from 10 seconds to 5. We'll see. So outside of having no real side effects when starved (outside of sun damage doing DOUBLE) I need to get those hooked up and working amd tested. The play through is allowing me to take notes on minor adjustments that need to be made. For instance, I just noticed that nearly all the rich nobles carry garlic, NONE of the guards do, and some of the NPCs do. I don't want the rich to be 90% garlic carriers or it looks like very castle you walk into is full of stinky people. Well, I guess it's supposed to look that way, but... Gaurds, I had wanted about 25% of them to carry garlic. Little things, but that's why we call it fit and polish. -MM

Phil, So Sumo Mortalis Forma? Ok, toggled it is. Alright all. These forays into feature adds are causing the release to suffer. It's all my fault mind you. So.. outside of adding in the negative effects for hunger, I need to stay away from adding new stuff for now which means dropping my telekinesis efforts for now too. Otherwise, everytime I add a feature or work on something that's not fit and polish it pushes back the beta release and I really want to get this out for you. Thanks so much for the help and suggestions Phil and Nskin! -MM

Definitely toggaleable. Also of the names I suggested my favorite is also Sumo Mortalis Formo (I think is it sounds the best in Latin and in English: assume mortal form) In regards to autocasting Enthrall, that is an interesting idea. I personally would prefer to have the option of whether or not to cast it. Question: I am planning on playing with AOS for any levels of vampirism. Would AOS mean that vampires, followers, and Thralls (other vampire's and my own) attack me too? Toggle it is. I like it, and I only needed one person to say DO IT. :) So, here's the deal. The Formo spell is essentially useless outside of having AOS enabled. What I've done is made Enthrall work whenever you have the Form up and aren't staving...if you're starving then Enthrall won't work, and Formo will just stop the AOS effect as long as you have the mana to keep it up. The enthrall part of it just gets applied as an ability. It doesn't consume additional magicka. Only enemies of the VampirePCFaction will attack you. Basically Guards, and Vigilant of Stendarr. Normal citizens will not attack you but I am thinking about having them fear you and run away. Your followers, thralls, etc,. will not attack you. -MM

More as a personal note than anything, I think I'm going to take a stab back on using Telekinesis and animating weapons. I found the following possible solution looking for ways to force the player to re-arm themselves. Assuming that items under telekinesis are considered to be grabbed, then I should be able to determine the object that's grabbed by the player, and when dual casting our telekinesis spell it could create one of my Ethereal Axe like NPCs to pick up and use the weapon for a limited time... Quick Question Time: Do you guys think the concealing ability should be a SPELL (have to equip and cast in hand) or toggle as a lesser power? I'm starting to lean toward lesser power so you can keep your hands free since it's toggleable. -MM

Sorry, for context, when you create messges, you can have "Menu Buttons" defined. The problem with the Menu Buttons is that they are all on a single row in multiple columns rather than a single colum with multiiple rows, so if you like to have a rather verbose set of options, they scroll off the left and right side of the screen. -MM

I haven't found a way to do this and for the life of me can't figure out why on earth Bethesda thought that selectios going ACROSS the screen was better than horizontal. Regardless, I think that's why you see a number of mods that have "Summonable Configuration" NPCs that you use a conversation tree to make changes. As for the options menus not sure if those are ALSO done in flash or not like the rest of the inventory, and other menus. -MM

I believe this has to do with havok modifiers applied when corpses are dead. You might consider looking at Realistic Ragdolls and Force mod to see what it's changing. http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=601, or there was another one that adjusted how ragdolls behaved when the NPC was dead. I use that mod, but I am not at my home machine to check the name. -MM

I'm probably going into scope creep again, but I really like some of these ideas I'm thinking. So, I'll leave the latin up to Phil11 but I like the sound of Sumo Mortalis Formo and yet another idea. What if under that form you didn't get to use any special passive strengths but still had the weaknesses? I don't know what gameplay it offers in terms of use, since outside of when you're KOS it has no other use. I wonder if using enthrall (our speech modifier) and going ahead and using a little mana, say 3/sec might make it a more useful tool, rather than just a plaything for those that aren''t AOS. -MM Edit for Clarity: What I propose is this. I remove Enthrall from the available spell lists for Master, Progenitor and Sire. At those levels, you would cast this spell, your outward appearance would be your previous racial form, it would remove AOS if you're currently under AOS, AND it would auto-cast the appropriate level of Entrhall for you.

I took a Latin class a loooong time ago, but here's my input anyway. You mean absconditus, right? Yup...misspelled but I like the names list you provided much better! You took latin? I took French (so should have taken latin) but that was 25 years ago and still not much help. I had gone with a different name for the spell in Italian but I like the latin sound much better. Maybe you should think of some other names for our spells! :) Those are awesome. So hard to pick the right one. Yeah...I ran passed him the first time, finding the door...but... I did not realize you could do a drop attack onto his head! Well, maybe when I stop modding Skyrim I'll take another stab at it. haha. -MM

I suggest making it consume a lot of magicka if you are starving, or disable it completely. Thanks again for this. You rule. P.S. I have two weeks of school left, if you are still beta testing at that point I'd be happy to help! Hi Nskin, I can't really disable it as it's technically the foundation of our entire "how to enter a town when you're starving so you can feed" piece. But I did end up removing magicka as a requirement when not starving. Starving is a user modifable global value and represents a value from 0 to whatever you decide BeluaMaxSatiatedLevel should be. Then, there's also the AOS value. So consider that we have two levels we're now tracking... Level 1) The bad effects will kick in and you have permanent detect life. This amount at which you are considered to be starving is based on a global variables called BeluaStarvedLevel. This is the valueI described above. Level 2) This is when Attack On Sight kicks in and it actually works independently of BeluaStarvedLevel with the changes I made for you tonight. It's controlled via a global called BeluaHungeredAOSLevel. If you are starving (i.e. your satiated level is less than or equal to the BeluaStarvedLevel) or your SatiatedLevel is less than or equal to BeluaHungeredAOSLevel then it consumes magicka. The rate scales based on your vampirelevel but honestly not by too much. I think I mentioned it in a previous post. So basically, you can be considered AOS ALL the time by setting the BeluaHungeredAOSLevel to whatever your BeluaMaxSatiatedLevel is set to (100 by default). Come to think of it, maybe it should ONLY cost magicka if you're hungered and NOT if your KOS. Most people are going to be hungry before they're KOS anyway (except you nskin039). :) -MM Whether

Ok, a little more polish on Verita Nascosto (changed the name from Nascosta to Nascosto). It now remembers which spells you had equipped and reequips them. I also have it set to consume magicka only when you're AOS since that's the only time it really benefits you. I have it scaling the magicka requirement depending on how high your VampireLevel is. Basically it's 5 at Fledgling, 6 at Risen, 7, 8, and then 9 for Sire. You're going to have to pay some upkeep to hide yourself as a Sire if you're starving so bad you're AOS. -MM

I think I worked out the invisibility bug. Here's a sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip_U_VE6FlA&feature=youtube_gdata I might consider making Verita Nascosta only consume magicka if you're starving. This way you can pop it up whenever you want, just for fun. So check it nskin039, you asked for two things and got them and it only took me 1.5 hours of work. :) Off to make some dinner. -MM

Ok, Added in the BeluaHungeredAOSPercentage. Typically this would be set to 100. Meaning, if you were 100% hungered, that means you're completely starved, and AOS would kick in. If you change this to 0, you'll be cosntant AOS except when your spell is up. That's going to be VERY difficult and I don't recommend doing it, but it only took 5 minutes to wire up and it was something I planned to do so. I'm still unsure of the race thing. I'll see if this is a known issue. I want to say I've heard of this before, but I could be wrong. -MM

So I did some quick POC work on changing the race back and it works...but there's some bugs. Switching back and forth sometimes would cause the actor to go completely invisible. Nice effect, but no way to recover from it. Disregard the name of the spell in the debug logs. I haven't updated that into: [03/22/2012 - 05:18:29PM] Absconditus Informis Cast [03/22/2012 - 05:18:29PM] Turning On [03/22/2012 - 05:18:29PM] Player Race is [Race <RedguardRaceVampire (00088846)>] [03/22/2012 - 05:18:30PM] Player Race changed to [Race <RedguardRace (00013748)>] [03/22/2012 - 05:18:31PM] Updating Absconditus Informis [03/22/2012 - 05:18:33PM] Updating Absconditus Informis [03/22/2012 - 05:18:34PM] Updating Absconditus Informis [03/22/2012 - 05:18:35PM] Updating Absconditus Informis [03/22/2012 - 05:18:36PM] Updating Absconditus Informis [03/22/2012 - 05:18:37PM] Updating Absconditus Informis [03/22/2012 - 05:18:43PM] Updating Absconditus Informis [03/22/2012 - 05:18:45PM] Updating Absconditus Informis [03/22/2012 - 05:18:46PM] Updating Absconditus Informis [03/22/2012 - 05:18:47PM] Updating Absconditus Informis [03/22/2012 - 05:18:48PM] Finishing Absconditus Informis [03/22/2012 - 05:18:48PM] Set Race Back to: [Race <RedguardRaceVampire (00088846)>] [03/22/2012 - 05:19:15PM] Applying Allow Harvest Heart Cloak to [Actor < (000DC553)>] A few other things, it unequips spells that were equipped and sets turns off your alert state (where you have weapons drawn, etc,.). Don't know if it removes weapons. That's not hard to handle, but the random invisible PC bug is a showstopper for me. I even took some video of it but.... -MM

Going to add some thoughts here: I love the idea of potentially changing thing the race back. Just like the standard vampire script, I keep track of the original player race. I could work up a POC so that "Verita Nascosta" actually changes you back to what you would look like under a normal NPC of your race before the change. I am leary of doing too many race changes for fear that people have discussed problems with race changes before, but that was when switching to radically different races. Perhaps switching back and forth between say, NordRace and NordVampireRace isn't problematic. That would require some testing. So, I love this idea but it might present certain challenges. At the onset Jakisthe and I wanted the final stage to be AOS always, and you'd have to do just that. That was almost 1.5 months ago and the general consensus back then was it was too much. So... I've spent quite a lot of time in NOT worrying about that and thus a lot of work may have to be done to retrofit those changes that we're not slated to do. That being said... I do plan on allowing two things to be customizable. The percentage at which hunger effects kick in The value at which hunger turns on AOS. The first in that list is already in the game. it's 25% by default and right now, I'm ashamed to say I have nothing in the negative effects work done except turning on Detect Blood permanently. The second thing could be added, and... .theoretically... you could set the hunger level requirement to 0 and so the hunger manager would always set you to be KOS, but without the negative hunger side effects. I just need to make an adjustment to the hunger manager so it checks to see if you have the Verita Nascosta applied so it doesn't set your AOS during game update. I will say, that's going to make it challenging for anyone. The Range Of Sight on NPCs, guards especially, is INCREDIBLE. When I was testing AOS and Verita Nascosta coming anywhere within about 300 feet of a guard and they'd attack me. So, long story short, you MIGHT get what you want right out of the box once I implement the second configurable option. It just might have unexpected....issues as I don't know that we'll do much testing with it. But if you're one of the beta testers and I get that in there, you're more than welcome to report back what you find and I'll consider it, but I will need to prioritize appropriately. Note: Veritas Nascosta drains 5 mana per sec. Did you just say Dark Souls?!?! Sweet. So...quick side step. I bought Demon's Souls for the PS3 when it first came out. Had it for a week and thought it was the most frustratingly difficult game I had ever played. So I sold it to someone else. And for another two weeks I couldn't get the game out of my head so I went out and bought it again. A couple weeks later I stopped playing...but never got the game out of my head. So what happened when Dark Souls came out? I bought it too....yeah....I can't get past the first boss. You know...the stupid boss in the Jail, the one that essentially behaves like the first boss in Demon's Souls. Yeah, Can't get by him. After trying 15-20 times. I stopped playing. Have I sold the game? Of course not. edit: and probably the only reason I haven't gone back to it is because Skyrim came out. Back on track... So like I said, theoretically the ability to do ALWAYS ON AOS can be hooked up in about 15 minutes worth of work and controlling when the AOS kicks in is something I was planning to allow for in the customization using the global variables. I need to make sure that Veritas Nasosta doesn't get overriden by the hunger manager when it's in effect anyway, so really...this is kind of all planned out and just want be something I focus on in testing. What I don't plan to do is to provide varying levels of when AOS kicks in (like Master kicks in at 75% hunger, Progenitor 33% hunger, Sire, 10% hunger). Remember, we took out AOS at Sire as some thought it was too demanding. Now ... if you DO want me to implement the AOS switch as configurable per level, I'll gladly do it. Currently I've made putting up the mask a magicka drain. It's 1 per second. Factor that in with your regen and it's not too bad. In fact, I would wager that at higher levels 5 per second drains don't even register. At level 2 (the level my CURRENT test characer is who is NOT a mage) she can keep the mask up for more than 20-30 seconds just due to the magicak regen rate offsetting the drain a bit. For that matter, I could have the drain do this: Drain Magicka -> OUT Drain Stamina -> OUT Drain Health -> Below 50% disable However, there's no ....lore spin... I can place on it draining health. Stamina either, except perhaps it's also a physical strain because you've physically changed shape... I dunno, at some point it probably start getting too complicated but the idea draining both magicka and then stamina until out at least supports 2 primary play types. So the above is what I think. I don't think it's something we planned for (once we started the dev phase), but the customization I DID plan for and so, theoretically it should work. We just need to prioritize the bugs we get in during the beta appropriately. If they're using the settings in ways, perhaps it wasn't intended, then those might have to be in the back of the list or not addressed. Thoughts? -MM