Shadowcran

I'm noticing a good pattern here. People who like Turn based strategies always speak fondly of one in particular. One that just "hit" them in a special way. There have been times I've played a TBS and swore it just can't get better than this. As the posts in this thread have proven, everyone has a particular favorite. I was particularly happy to see someone recommend a water based one that I had no idea existed. There is almost no water based strategies out there, so I feel I've been lacking in that department. There are ones that feature ships, but that's not the same, although Pacific Theatre of Operations have eaten away a lot of my life,lol. There are, in Wesnoth, strategy campaigns that involve Merman and their main enemy, the Naga, but that too, isn't the same. I remember Warsong and that you could have one that involved Mermen and their leader who I can't remember. I do remember it was better to develop the main aqua guy AWAY from the water based version as he becomes completely useless in later scenarios. Also, the mermen didn't hold any advantage except their ability to move fast in water. Once they reached their target at hyper speed, they were usually beaten rather easily in the mostly "rock, paper, scissors" method of gameplay in that one. Archers beat horsemen who beat fighters who beat archers. The other 2 unit types, the mermen and monks, had uses, but the Mermen's was negated(the monks were only useful in 2 scenarios that involved slime) . Wait, I forgot the flying guys...but you don't get them til the game's almost over and then they're not much use,lol. Did anyone ever play Master of Monsters out there?

The endearing thing about turn based strategy and most players of it is that most don't care one whit about the graphics. They want gameplay and good graphics is just a plus. I don't know why but the earlier console games are a LOT harder than todays "visual masterpieces". I remember the first couple I tried, The Shining Force 1 and 2 and PTO, aka Pacific Theatre of Operations. By today's standards, they'd be considered eyesores, but not in gameplay. In gameplay they make eyesores of most of today's games. I find myself shocked when I see(not in Oblivion's forums mind you) players refusing to play these old games due to it "being old and kidified". These older games are hard and would probably embarass the majority of young gamers today with their difficulty. I remember an old RPG for Sega Genesis(Of course anyone today can play all these old games with a free emulator and free ROM) called Rings of Power. This game had an entire world to discover, back then not common at all. YOu could go anywhere in that world from day one but it wasn't advised. The game's combat took place with magic only but it paid to learn it's strategies. Excuse the shouting but WHEN YOU PLAY THIS GAME YOU WILL HAVE TO SAVE ALMOST EVERY 30 SECONDS TO A MINUTE DUE TO IT"S DIFFICULTY AT TIMES. You had to amass 5 more followers of different magic schools, each a hard quest, and THEN, and only then you start the main quest for the 11 rings. Most of these 11 rings quests are tough. Today, young gamers will make fun of such a game. However, if they dared try it they'd find there's less than 10 people in the world who beat it. I'm one of those but I did it by sheer perserverance. There are a few levelling up tricks. Reason why I shouted about saving earlier? This game can randomly kill you at any moment. I recall one time starting up the game, taking 2 steps and suddenly VOID, the games devil, randomly kills me. If this happened in today's games, the young gamer would immediately start whining to the developers or term the game "gay" and not play it anymore.

yes, very much so, my friend. You'll find the chess skills you developed will carry over to video games of Turn Based Strategy. To a lesser extent, so will other board type games. I don't think we've mentioned the great board games for strategy out there. Most of them, if not all, have been adapted into a video game. Let's see how many I can name. Tell me which of these you like people. Chess, Othello, Stratego, Axis and Allies, Fortress America, Conqueror of Rome, Risk, mind is now going blank and I know there's more. Feel free to correct me in what I've missed. I'll probably slap my forehead and go AHA! Now I remember! There's also countless hex board games, but where I live these have been hard to get . Earlier I recommended Battle for Wesnoth. It's completely free and encourages player made campaigns, some of which have made into the "main line" of the game. Give it a try. I DO recommend you NOT bother with the Wesnoth Forums. It's badly troll filled and probably will die out. If you do go there, don't post but read the strategy tips. http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Download Get the one that applies to your system. For instance, mine is the Windows version. This download comes with about 10 campaigns, but there's hundreds more available for download as well as many multiplayer ones and options.

You owe it to yourself to try at least one. Turn based strategy lets you have the luxury of thinking out your strategy in advance, unlike the majority of Real Time strategies. In those, it usually starts out with a plan but ends up plowing ahead with superior technology and running roughshod. Most turn based involves equal sides battling it out, with you taking advantage of terrain, position, and many other factors. It allows you to expand your mind. Fair warning though, if you play enough you start seeing hexes and advantages in your sleep and just looking at your surroundings. Yes, the heroes series is a good recommendation. Heck, I've yet to find a bad one in all these posts.

Hello baby, yeah, this is the Big Bopper speaking Oh you sweet thing Do I what Will I what Oh baby you know what I like Chantilly lace and a pretty face And a pony tail hanging down That wiggle in the walk and giggle in the talk Makes the world go round There ain't nothing in the world like a big eyed girl That makes me act so funny, make me spend my money Make me feel real loose like a long necked goose Like a girl, oh baby that's what I like What's that baby But, but, but, oh honey But, oh baby you know what I like Chorus What's that honey Pick you up at 8 and don't be late But baby I ain't got no money honey Oh alright baby you know what I like Chorus And that's what I like. of course, I LOVE Oblivion and most RPG's, but Oblivion above all. I also love turn based strategies, relaxing and enjoying my new divorced state, and of course, Chantilly Lace.

Reading the most recent Game Informer, I notice that TBS are still being made by the ton for the handhelds. This stinks for me, as I just can't see well enough for those. About the only thing I can do for those is wait for a ROM to be made so I can play them in "full screen" on the computer.

One last thing. LEvelling up your units. Some units have different "trees" depending on which way you go. An example is the Level 1 spearman. Once it reaches level 2 you can choose either 1- swordsman 2-Javelineer(this one doesn't go past level 2 so it's technically a dead end but still useful) or 3-halberdier. 1 and 3 can move on to a level 3 extension but won't reach level 4. If I recall there are about 3 or 4 units total that can achieve level 4. The fire drake can eventually become a level 4 Armageddon drake(some campaigns don't allow this one) a red mage can become a Level 4 Archmage, a sergeant can eventually beome a Level 4 Marshall(this unit type is very rare in campaigns) and some undead campaigns allow a level 4 lich.

I added more to previous post including strategy tips. I just went ahead and posted it because I knew you had to still be "around" and wanted to get you the link. Some of the scenarios can be very long and require long term strategy. Lucky, you can speed up the AI's turns if you so desire, but don't take away the whole thing or you'll be going "huh"? an awful lot. The end of Northern Rebirth, for example, involves you operating 4 separate large armies assaulting the main Northern factions(mostly orcs, trolls,etc.) castle where almost every square in the large structure is filled with troops. This battle alone can take days. As you come through scenarios, often you can obtain other units(most times you buy and upgrade your own) that are hidden. Using Northern Rebirth again as a good example, there's a scenario that nets you 2 white mages and a shaman elf. These are the only "healer" type units you'll get in that entire campaign and are thus, good as gold. A basic scenario plays out as your main character for the campaign is inside a structure where he can use his "starting gold" to purchase or recall units. Recall is using units from past scenarios that have presumably leveled up. The strict money situation forces you to be careful in what units you add. You gain more gold by occupying "villages" in the game. Each village nets you +1 gold per turn and also serves as a place where units can "stay" to "heal up" as they get a set 8 or 10 hp back per turn staying there. (white mages can heal this much to every unit surrounding him as your next turn begins so it's best to keep them safe, often surrounded by units needing healing). Usually the first 4 rounds of every scenario involves occupying villages or jockeying for position. At the end of every scenario, the gold you have left is carried over to the next, but only 80% of it. The remaining 20% is called "upkeep" for maintaining your armies basic needs. One thing that many feel needs to be changed is the ranged attacks. Your units have to be right next to the enemy to execute a ranged attack instead of 2 or more hexes away. IF the unit you're attacking doesn't have a ranged attack itself, then you simply shoot them while they stand there. If they DO have one, then they'll fire back. This requires ranged type units to take more advantage of terrain and proximity to melee type units. Units also "control" the hexes around them so enemy units can't whiz by them. There is a handful that have the ability to ignore this, but only a handful. This is the "Skirmish" ability. 0 level units can't control the hexes around them due them being ..well...low level. These 0 level units don't pop up in most scenarios so it's not hard to learn this. There are a lot of other abilities that units have similar to skirmish. Leader type units have the leadership ability that has units around them fight better is another example.

http://www.wesnoth.org/ This is the download page. As you'll see, there's a stable version and a development version. Extra campaigns are available simply using the Wesnoth game. THere's an option on it's main menu to DL from the site. For an earlier version there used to be a site where you could DL from that, but since it changes so often with new developments it's kind of silly to put one up. The campaigns range from great to ok, to "did a 5 year old make this" so be aware of that. The DL of the game itself has all the ones from the games creator, David White, plus favorites from the past few years among player created, but there's hundreds of others to choose from. Even though you may be experienced with TBS, I do recommend trying one of their trial type campaigns. TWo brothers would be too easy probably but The South Guard can get you acquainted with a wider variety of different unit types. In effect, there are 6 factions(plus some player created ones that are considered "non lore") and each faction has tons of unit types. My favorite among the "core campaigns" is Northern Rebirth, a player created mod. This one requires you to have some knowledge or you'll get your rear handed to you on scenario one. You start as a peasant and can only recruit other peasants(level 0 characters) on the first scenario, with more options becoming available each scenario. The units can go up to Level 4(only a handful are this level, most stop at 3 or 2). This is done so that the game doesn't gravitate towards the RPG rather than strategy. The game itself is easy to learn, but difficult to master. Be warned that the players on the multiplayer servers are pretty experienced for the most part so it's best to learn a lot before trying them. The game runs on the KISS principle, short for Keep it simple, stupid. They do their best to keep the learning curve easy and the 6 main factions are well balanced and considered dogma. They won't change this no matter what evidence you provide. Terrain also plays a major part in the game. Keep that in mind. Different factions call for different strategies, with Drakes(loosely based on Dragonlance draconians) being the hardest to master so save it for last. They require almost completely different tactics from all the others and can be difficult. They have no terrain advantages, but can fly. They hit hard but are in turn also hit very hard as their defense is low. You have to adopt a wierd hit and run and hope for water type strategy with them as all units but mermen and like creatures move crappily on water so it's a haven for Drakes.

I agree. I hate having to resort to the later war, but it's been almost necessary since Civ 2(I've never played the first one so I can't speak for it). I tend to rely on tanks, bomber/fighters, and even though in real life they'd be obsolete, battleships, with mech infantry doing the occupying. In the wars I fight, I tend to focus on coastal cities. Heck, you cut off a civilization from the water and they're as good as Mongolia(dead in other words) in the later years.

Seems to be a pattern here. You play one and it whets your appetite for more. Has anyone ever played Battle for Wesnoth? This is a turn based strategy where players can create campaigns or scenarios to add to it. There's hundreds of them made. If you are interested, don't get involved in their forums as it's been taken over by trolls for years now. It's a fantasy based strategy btw.

wow. I hadn't checked this thread I started in a while. After 3 or 4 weeks with nobody posting I assumed the subject was simply dead. Finally, about 2 minutes ago, I got an email stating this topic finally had a response....3 pages of them. What the devil? About the ongoing Civ discussion. Victory by any means is a victory. Some call a victory by war a failure of diplomacy. Yeah, it's cool to crush your opponents, but it's also cool to crush them without them knowing it. Read some Machiavelli and you'll see where true power lies. However, you can't make others see your point while they're invading, so having a great military backing up your words puts the punctuation mark on it. I do believe in Theodore Roosevelt's policy of "Speak softly but carry a big stick". The only time I'm aggressive is when I'm short a resource that someone else has inside their borders. I then open up a can of whoopass on them...until the resource is securely mine! I then try for diplomatic solutions to end the war. Clever or nasty? you decide. Just reading the first few posts I see there's some great suggestions that I need to do a little research on. By that, I mean find them, download them, and play them.lol I've a quick question for all that have posted. Would you play an Oblivion Turn based strategy game?

lol. Censors? I recall in YoHoHo Puzzle Pirates, an mmorpg, if you cursed the filter would automatically change the curse words into pirate lingo. The female dog would become wench OMG would become billions of blue blistering barnacles.

76) Forrest Gump & Bubba NPC companions...yes, imagine your thrill as you have these 2 accompanying you everywhere you go. From Gump's constant cries for Jenny to Bubba's neverending types of shrimp recipes, you'll never get bored. 77) Realistic priests- Now you'll be afraid to be alone with them. You'll need a companion with you just to make sure you're not seduced. Beware of most as they're drunk on wine. 78) New spell-Mushroom cloud. Cast this spell and you don't have to worry about one damned thing, except someone getting the imprint of your shadow out of a wall...if there's any walls left standing. Just the thing to destroy that pesky rat that's attacking. 79) New state of government for Oblivion- Socialism. yes, now you too can have free medical care(of course, no real doctor will want to practice it, so you'll be given a goblin shaman), and the way of life that made such a paradise out of such successful countries as post ww2 Czechoslavakia, Poland, or even HUNGARY!!! Let's just hope that some rich country decides to bail us out, eh? 80) Hells Angels faction- Yes, with this you can join the Hells angels. You can do such exciting activities as drive a motorcycle, wear tough gaylike leather, and ...stand around and intimidate people....hours of fun..

LHammonds, the actions speak for themselves. I've seen several vote one particular mod low and have every single dissenting vote taken away. Every single one. The reasons for each dissenting vote were carefully explained and were valid, but that didn't stop every one of them taken away. If a person comes along, rates something low WITHOUT reason, then yeah, the vote should be taken away if asked. But if the reasons are listed and valid, they should remain. Do you honestly think people rank mods low just because they hate the modder? Or that they are simply being jerks? Or that perhaps they meant to give a 10 but their finger slipped? If a mod, as in the case of the one mentioned above, causes multiple "help me" threads and repeated CTD's and complete system shutdowns, and nothing is done then the mod in question is malicious in it's intent. The only times I've ranked a mod low was when the mod causes massive trouble. Modders make FREE additions to a game, and thus should be respected, but not if the mod causes real monetary damage. Taking away dissenting votes and keeping this mod ranked high means every new to modding player who comes along will think it's foolproof. Shadowcran, you are not aware of this (obviously) but we do not act upon EVERY single report. Take your above statement for a point. I could take offense at your assumption that I'm too stupid to realize something. I don't care in reality, but I could make a case for it using YOUR analogies. I won't though, as it's beneath me to lower myself to that level