Ghatto

In response to post #57044991. #57197506 is also a reply to the same post. Oh yeah. Flood filter on posting? yeah makes sense. Flood filter on searching, eugh...

There's only one thing I really need in the site redesign right now: mod page thread search. It's a real pain trying to troubleshoot any mods issues that may have already been discussed by searching for specific keywords. You can go to the mod's nexus forum page and search there but I'm certainly not going to be the first to criticise the forums readability - especially for reply and quote threads. (It's makes finding that elusive, "Hey I had that problem too and this fixed it" comment pretty laborious. Meanwhile the new redesigned mod pages with their accompanying mod thread view is beautiful and has lovely easy to read and easy to use commenting, but no search!

I look forward to seeing what happens to the mod pages, not because I found them lacking though. I consider this site to be one of the best in terms of pure specified functionality. When it comes to mods, this is the one where everything has its right place and everything is in its right place. (Please eventually do something about the mismatch between the mod comments section and the associated threads on the forum. It's so jarring trying to read the same thread on one and then the other, while trying to follow the discussion.)

In response to post #41316780. #41318880 is also a reply to the same post. They should add a feature is like in all those EULAs that make you scroll to the bottom of the agreement before continuing. So like one for the description page the first time a before a user downloads (sounds feasible since the nexus tracks all downloads on your account). I know most people won't read those and just scroll, but they'd have even less excuse if they had to scroll past big text of 'FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS OR YOU GAME WILL CRASH' that is so popular in the descriptions these days.

In response to post #41286925. #41289200, #41299935, #41302745, #41320760 are all replies on the same post. Then the best use for such a feature would be for is: sort by 'endorsement per download' within 'timeframe'. When I look to do a mod overhaul I always check first for the best/most popular downloads that are newest first - then best of all time - then somewhat less popular but specific to my use case.

In response to post #28756709. #28784094 is also a reply to the same post. But we're all ok with that? We're ok with EULAs that say we don't own our games? I'm not. It's dumb and arguments like this arise simply because of how dumb it is. I know it's there to prevent stuff like piracy and plagiarism, but I don't see why it has to extend to what we do with our own damn copies of the game.

In response to post #28715649. Apples and Oranges. With books you either buy a whole book or get an ebook for your device. Yeah you have to buy a device first like I need a computer to play Skyrim. But unlike Skyrim I don't need to buy a book to then buy add-on chapters (mods). Paid fan-fiction is likely a better example, but like this situation, appears to be as highly contested (some types are allowed to be published for money and others not). I have different memories. While the advent of ebooks is definitely good, I remember a lot of the publishing and writing community having conflict over how it would be done.

In response to post #28707544. #28708344, #28711854 are all replies on the same post. I thought people would try that retort. The important difference is that there's several degrees removal from the transaction. If my taxes did pay for the park I didn't want, it's because someone else is spending money I already wanted to provide. Similarly if you modders are on unemployment or work a non-modding related job that I would somehow service then I've also already paid for it. Regardless I can always from that point forward enter and enjoy the park whether I wanted it or not and that's important because I can not be seen as someone 'taking advantage of' something freely available. If you want to be more specific then paid mods is a park with a paid entry. Just don't get mad if I don't want to enter based solely on the fact that I've enjoyed free entry before. I mean maybe a free cupcake stand is a better analogy: You bake cupcakes and set up a stand saying "Please help yourself." Am I entitled to one? DO I deserve one? No not really but they're offered so I may have one. So even though I know you put effort into making them, nobody owes anybody anything because the offer was just there, I mean yeah a 'Thank you' (endorsement) may be nice but money hasn't happened until... Next day you set up the same stand and charge $1 per cupcake. I remark that I miss the free ones and probably won't buy these ones. You get so mad and accuse me of "Just taking and taking and never giving back" even though that wasn't the original offer. FIghting ensues.

In response to post #28720339. Mmmm. Yeah that website shows some of the same (paid) skins as directly in-game. Or stuff that works on custom servers (thank god that's still allowed). To me that's only half-way there, but I've made it clear in these posts that I'm hard to please.

In response to post #28683919. #28688649, #28700574, #28701439 are all replies on the same post. Well CandyGirl 24, you're the one that made a absolute statement, a conclusion you found and then attributed to the entire set without thorough testing. Then you made a post claiming that the 'frank' version of the talk, or the one with 'opened eyes' was one where you were right. Yes I know you can provide examples, I know there was many modders who said they'd make more or better mods with paid income. I can also provide examples of modders who said the exact opposite so what is correct for the whole modding community? Are good mods only really made by full-time professionals, and rubbish mods made by poor people on toasters? The true answer is: it depends. I suppose I'll never find out though since your time is so precious you don't want to spend it defending your argument. Macintroll, Professionals made Skyrim. They did pretty good, made a huge cool game we all love that was malleable enough to end up being modded this much. They also left a tonne of bugs and created gameplay many people have criticised as boring, and a world that's criticised as empty. Now there's a whole lot of 'essential' mods made by 'hobbyists' that for a lot of us actually turn Skyrim into the game we all want it to be. In my mind, professionals are the devs and are no guarantee for quality. The hobbysist are modders and are also no guarantee for quality. The difference is that one was paid to make something and the other was not, so but once again the money didn't guarantee quality. The number one thing I like about the current way of doing things though is that somebody must bankroll a full game or DLC before selling it, that people will get paid for their work BEFORE they are thrown to customers. Now unless the user wants to wilfully participate in some Kickstarter/Early Access thing, the morals have been cleared, and only payment for perceived quality remains. Nobody gets to complain that their blood/sweat/tears were not appreciated and users (hopefully) can get what they pay for. Paid-modding threw that out the window. We were responsible now for quality, for not being ripped-off and for feeling sooooooo guilty when we didn't want to buy XYZ mods. Truly if we and Bethesda believes that awesome modders when paid, will create the most amazing DLC size super content then they should put their money where their mouth is and HIRE these modders to make new DLC. Or failing that - actually open the store featuring it! I was flabbergasted that this brave new venture actually opened with only collection of mostly iffy mods rather than super shiny "endorsed by Bethesda" mods that we just couldn't resist.

In response to post #28705769. We must have different google results (they do that to make more ad money). I still don't find anything truly free as the way mods here are. I'll take your word for it, I only didn't believe you originally because my understanding of the game made what I want, and what you said, impossible! I still play cause the game is fun, but I do lament the changes. Heck to me it's the same as gambling; I'm surprised Valve hasn't run afoul of some countries laws on that. Although it's similar to the 'ok' way of rare cards in trading card games like Magic.

In response to post #28707544. "The cold truth is most users will never give back and will always take." This is an interesting line actually. I do think that this is one of ideals that allowed the fighting to get so intense. By that I mean I never thought of myself or other mod-users are 'taking', and I think most don't. I know modders definitely would appreciate a 'giving back' and that would intensify when they encountered users who complained about their work or unreasonably demanded changes or support. But they were never required to 'give back,' because they never 'took'. Once a mod was published it was 'just there' unlimited in the way of downloads (ignoring server costs that this site does ask for money). It's a lot like my community council building a park down the road, I can appreciate it without payment as part of the collective public, or I can be a contributor in order to support its development.

In response to post #28683919. False Correlation. Just because some modders say they'll make more quality mods when paid does not mean it will be the same for everyone. Just look at Mobile App Stores and the glut of crap on them; a perfect example of what will still happen when money's left on the table.

In response to post #28684264. #28685414 is also a reply to the same post. Well I'll just have to politely disagree then. It sounds like you want things to move in a very specific way, but if you ask me there is no 'right' way... there's just too many varaibles. As evidenced by these discussions there's just so many people with different opinions and biases, no way we can expect everyone to behave or react the same. Yeah we can act like 'adults' as long as the definition of 'adult' reaches a consensus - which it won't. And that's discounting the fact that what we talk about and what results we want will actually be different for each person. In my case, while I do think personal insults and abuse are bad, I don't think brazen angry criticism is bad. I mean I just don't think a big corp like Bethesda would care if customers like me voiced my displeasure in just a stern "no I don't like that mister." Obvious then that I don't agree that the community ruined itself. Reading mod pages here for years showed me that posters who are willing to argue and abuse each other are always there. Only now forces that were controlled by neither modders or users brought a new paradigm that would no doubt be utterly and completely divisive. No surprise, as it competence would forever more change the face of modern game modding and specifically websites like this one. What I mean is, I believe that even if everyone on this website was 'adult' and didn't turn this into a crapfight - it still would have crumbled into a mess thanks to the nature of the problem.

In response to post #28663749. #28664219, #28665004, #28665334, #28675154, #28676099 are all replies on the same post. True. That does however just throw away criticism of the games that don't.

In response to post #28677409. Haha. Sorry about the colloquial generalism. I do agree that the abuse and vitriol isn't required. I suppose I'm just not surprised it's there, especially since everybodies actions end up communicating an ideology that may or may not be their true attitude or opinion, yet there's nothing else to attack if people have been tripped into raging bull mode (super easy on the Internet). And yeah I get that I'm some kind of fuddy-duddy for refusing to get with the times and accept that a mod-shop is coming. The thing is though, how can I productively discuss how best to do a mod-shop when I simply don't want it to happen?

In response to post #28663749. #28664219, #28665004, #28665334 are all replies on the same post. What makes you think sites like this will survive should big business actually succeed in turning out paid mods?

In response to post #28666384. I'm less concerned about a donation system built in with Fallout 4 as I'm concerned the modding platform will be locked down to support it. Stuff like Mod Organizer is a godsend and was only possible because the modding platform isn't locked into official programs built by the devs.

In response to post #28668749. #28670729 is also a reply to the same post. Personally I think this site could survive donations a lot better than you think. Yeah some people would get into bitchfights, but the magic of donations is that it's completely voluntary: nobody gets hurt. Since the 'product' is sompletely free mods (with per this sites rules - no begging allowed) then there's no provable link between a donation and the result. Whatever money modders make here will be practically inconsequential.

In response to post #28671324. Sorry brah, but while I respect your opinion and your well-constructed post - I'm still gonna be critical of stuff I don't agree with. If we all just stayed silent on negative change then we'd all just get steamrolled. I mean think about it man: if I like Skyrim mods and enjoy coming to the website every day seeing what amazing new things people have made, appreciating the community built here around sharing and helping each other to all build their own personal perfect version of Skyrim, why would I want to see that change for the worse? Why wouldn't I show my disappointment, or provide my criticism for broken systems? Yeah I don't have to be abusive to the modders, a lot of people are assholes, and a lot more were just full-on seeing red. I do think most people agree that modders were not the bad guys here, but alas - this event required them to be willful participants in something some people would love and others would hate. If this whole controversy didn't begin then there'd be no fighting. Bethesda and Valve built the ring and put the money in the middle.

In response to post #28655914. #28656504, #28662504, #28666864, #28671969 are all replies on the same post. What a horrible future. I'm glad I have like 5+ years of backlog.

In response to post #28637559. Funny. I did the same and I got endless results of "free" limited time only, give-away, special points trade system bullcrap websites. Where your "free" don't at all function like mods-of-old and is just like Steam inventory trading (which is something I remember Valve saying they might even try for Bethesda style modding). That or 'hacks' which can totally mess things up. No that's not free mods. That's free samples. Ok you want to stay on topic? Well I think Nexus should just provide donate links for modders that go to whatever donation system the modder wants. Whether it be paypal, flattr, Patreon, etc, I don't care. If I want to give modders some money and Bethesda don't like it they can kiss my ass.

In response to post #28622159. #28626849, #28637379, #28637439, #28638459, #28638669 are all replies on the same post. Arthmoor, much respect to you I like your mods. However I've gotta defend my points. In the case of CS:GO there is no free option. I am literally not allowed to make a skin and stipulate that players get it for free, nor can I place skin files in my game folder as it will trip Valves anti-counterfiet system and ban me. Saying, 'make/play a different game that allows it' is a non-answer attempting to discount fair criticism. The 'market' has not moved on. Paid mods for most games are a new thing, it's a new market. People like me tolerate it, not accept it. Discussions like this completely demonstrate that the old market is concerned about not being served in the future. Valve may have made systems that work, but that doesn't mean we all have to like them. I'm right here complaining about them because I hate them and hate how they changed the game - Skyrim definitely wasn't compatible with Valves system; all the problems and concerns we foretold literally happened in those 2 weeks. I know where 'entitlement' comes from and the bit that rustles my jimmies is that it's just plain-out used wrong. 9 times out of 10 it's just used to insult somebody they disagree with rather than actually describing somebody entitled. I'm sick of it for that reason. Nobody who liked free mods and hated paid mods was 'entitled'. Free mods just happened, nobody demanded them or deserved them in the first place. The only ones denying choice here are Bethesda: they are the ones who allow or disallow modding Skyrim at all and won't even let modders ask for money without getting their cut. Yeah I can just 'not buy' paid mods. That's such a lovely experience isn't it? Not being able to buy things you like... Just like CS:GO how I can just 'not buy' skins and 'enjoy' bland default. From the users perspective (at least for the likes of Skyrim) the modding scene would crumble as an enjoyable part of their game turns into browsing a shop. Ironically, the paid mod system is what MADE mod piracy possible. "Having an option to pay for mods does not logically lead to "all mods will now be pay forever"." Except for the SkyUI guy. Yeah you could get nice stable version 4 for free, but future 'products' would be paid and paid only. I can't complain that it happened once, but in 2 weeks the new mod shop attracted a huge crowd of much less stand-up dudes.

In response to post #28643194. So when we showed our dissatisfaction with a company's product and they refuse to compromise, we should blame ourselves?

In response to post #28622159. Sounds like the same 'flavour of the month' response to peoples concerns these days. How about actually forming an argument instead of an ad hominem. I'm not entitled to free skins. What I am though is old enough to remember how FUN games like Counterstrike were with free skins, sprays, mods etc. Yeah most of it's still there: maps, modes and the like, but if I want to spray a funny pic? Pay. Want a different colour gun? Pay. Have a little music? Pay. And really I can't stop the devs from doing that, but you did say "For games where paid mods are allowed, there is - and it ever will be - a full spectrum of free mods, full-priced mods, discounted mods, free demo-versions of full payable mods, and so on - whatever price discrimination marketing invented." and I gave an example of where there was no free version.