sajuukkhar9000
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Posts posted by sajuukkhar9000
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This has nothing to do about personal belief, I was merely pointing out that the list you used for Lorkhan's avatars came out BEFORE Pelinal was actually a thing, thus doesn't include him because he wasn't created yet, not because Kirkbride doesn't consider him an avatar of Lorkhan.
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Maven's the Jarl at the start in my game, every time - and while not exactly a "faithful supporter of the Empire" - she's more than likely to be easy to deal with. Your own point makes that clear - she's greedy. Money and power.
That's impossible without mods.
Edit: And Helgen becomes perhaps a bit more logical too, if you consider that they were actually on their way to Cyrodil, when Tullius suddenly changed his mind - also according to Hadvar. Perhaps he was afraid the Thalmor would meddle after all.He changed direction because the pale pass had a collapse/avalanche and was unusable. -
They also mention that the Dovah blood is hereditary
Except it isn't.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Book_of_the_Dragonborn
"Because of this connection with the Emperors, however, the other significance of the Dragonborn has been obscured and largely forgotten by all but scholars and those of us dedicated to the service of the blessed Talos, Who Was Tiber Septim. Very few realize that being Dragonborn is not a simple matter of heredity - being the blessing of Akatosh Himself, it is beyond our understanding exactly how and why it is bestowed."
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As for Pelenial, he's not on Kirkbride's list of Avatars of Lorkhan, so i for one don't consider him a Shezzarine.
You are aware that list came out before Knights of the Nine, and before Pelinal was actually made into a shezzarine?
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I recently discovered that, contrary to my own belief earlier, Pelenial is not, in fact, an avatar of Lorkhan. He's something of an almost unstoppable (almost, because he does die) unpredictable killing machine from the future. Kirkbride likened him to Gilgamesh-meets-T800, which of course paints a pretty picture. In blood and entrails... If he is the reincarnation of Pelenial (can you reincarnate someone who hasn't been born yet?) then he is certainly more than a normal mortal, which puts him on par from the start with the Dovahkiin and the Nerevarine.
Being a time traveler doesn't mean he isn't an avatar of Lorkhan.
I would dispute, however, that Jyggalag was, at the moment you face him, the strongest Daedric Prince. They make a rather large fuss about him 'mustering his power' and after his defeat he goes off to find his strength elsewhere in Oblivion, and perhaps one day regain his station. This implies that he is a pale reflection of his former might. Whether or not he's stronger than Hercine (the only other Deadra a PC defeats in battle) is the point of debate... Really, most people don't even consider Hercine to be a real Daedric Prince.You dont even fight Hircine, but rather, an aspect of him. as he says in bloodmoon, fighting the full power of him would be unfair, and unsportsmanlike.Also, you are thinking of Malacath as a Daedraic prince the others dont consider a Daedra. Nothing, to my best knowledge, has said anyone doesn't consider Hircine as full dadric prince. -
You keep all of your werewolf perks if you become a vampire.
If you get lycanthropy again, they will all still be there.
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All haughty elven nations that are getting too big for their breeches are doomed. Alessia and the Ayleids. Wulfharth and the Dark Elves (though he wasn't quite successful). Tiber Septim and the first Dominion.
You forgot to list the wars between the Nords and the Falmer, and the Redguards and the Left-Handed elves.
And then there was the combined efforts of High Rock and Hammerfell, which took down Camoran Usurper.
And one could even consider the Dunmer vs the Dwemer, as the Dunmer have a mannish view of the world, and Nerevar was an agent of Padhome just like Alessia, Ysmir, and Tiber were.
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The story the Pocketguide tells says that humans originate from the throat of the world, went to Atmora and returned after a war broke out in Atmora. Other sources - "Before the Ages of Men"
The book "Before the gaes of man" says
"It was in the Late Merethic Era that the pre-literate humans, the so-called "Nedic Peoples", from the continent of Atmora (also 'Altmora' or 'the Elder Wood' in Aldmeris) migrated and settled in northern Tamriel."
However, both Kurt Kuhlmann, and Michael Kirkbride, have said the Nedes are not from Atmora.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/kurt-kuhlmann-posts
On the origin of Nedes
"The usual Imperial arrogance. The hoary old "Out of Atmora" theory has been widely discredited (no reputable archaeologist would publicly support it these days), but the Imperial Geographers continue to beat the drum of the Nordic Fatherland in the best tradition of the Septim Empire. They seem to think that the imprimature of officialdom gives their outdated scholarship added weight -- which, unfortunately, it appears to in the eyes of the ever-gullible public which continues to snap up the latest Pocket Guides along with the rest of their Imperial Certified pablum. (HA)"
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride
Out of Atmora (07/10/08):
And for the last time (uh huh), Nedes != Atmorans. That's just shoddy scholarship from a bygone regime.
This allows us to debunk "Before the Ages of Man", and also serves as the basis for native human live on Tamriel, which connects to Nu-Hatta's comment, in the Nu-Matia Intercepts, that all mortal life began on Tamriel, and the Nord's "sky-children" belief.
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Kyne being the mother of men doesn't mean just nords. it means all men.
Well yes, all the races of men, except the Redguards, are known to be related to each other.
None of it is actual proofI see no reason to doubt Nu-Hatta's claim that all life began on Tamirel, especially given what we know about Aldmeris being nonexistent, and all the Nordic legends of being created on Tamirel. He is also the primary source of tower-knowledge, which the game's are built upon.
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Children of the Sky : "Nords consider themselves to be the children of the sky. They call Skyrim the Throat of the World, because it is where the sky exhaled on the land and formed them."
Pocket Guide to The Empire : "Throat of the World: This is the highest mountain in Skyrim, and the highest in Tamriel aside from Vvardenfell in Morrowind. The Nords believe men were formed on this mountain when the sky breathed onto the land. Hence the Song of Return refers not only to Ysgramor's return to Tamriel after the destruction of Saarthal, but to the Nords' return to what they believe was their original homeland."
Varieties of Faith in the Empire : "Kyne (Kiss At the End): Nordic Goddess of the Storm. Widow of Shor and favored god of warriors. She is often called the Mother of Men.
Decree of Monument : "Let it stand in honor of those who had the strength and spirit to accept Skyrim's Offer "untithed to any thane or hold, and self-governed, with free worship, with no compensation to Skyrim or the Empire except as writ in the Armistice of old wheresoever those might still apply, and henceforth let no Man or Mer say that the Sons and Daughters of Kyne are without mercy or honor."
More Kyne/Children of the sky stuff
With roaring Tongues, the Sky-Children conquer
Founding the First Empire with Sword and Voice
Whilst the Dragons withdrew from this WorldYngol and the Sea Ghosts : "In his terrible grief, Ysgramor slew a dozen dozen beasts and burned them in honor of his fallen kinsman. A barrow-hill was dug in the Atmoran tradition, and Yngol was laid to rest with rites and honors among his clansmen far below the rocky face of Hsaarik Head, the first Children of the Sky to perish in Tamriel."
Gelebor in Dawnguard makes mention of the Nord's belief that Skyrim is their ancestral home.
Dovahkiin: Who were your people?
Gelebor: We were once a wealthy and prosperous society that occupied a portion of Skyrim. Unfortunately, we were constantly at war with the Nords who claimed the land as their ancestral home.
The Greybeards call the mountain Kynareth's.
Dovahkiin: Who are you? What is this place?
Arngier: We are the Greybeards, followers of the Way of the Voice. You stand in High Hrothgar, on the slopes of Kynareth's sacred mountain. Here we commune with the voice of the sky, and strive to achieve balance between our inner and outer selves.
Froki also calls Kyne "the mother of men".
Dovahkiin: Tell me about Kyne.
Froki: Those sycophants in the Temple would call her Kynareth. Just a pale shadow of the truth, like all the Temple Divines. Kyne! Blessed Warrior-Wife. Shor's widow, sacred to any true Nord hunter. She's the mother of men and beasts, and her veil is the storm.Felldir the Old makes mention of Kyne's connection to the hawk.
"Hold, Alduin on the Wing! Sister Hawk, grant us your sacred breath to make this contract heard!" -
Those are just legends, nothing credible about them. the nords were born in Atmora and migrated to Skyrim after a civil war and declining enviroment forced them to flee their home Ysgramor was not the first colonist to settle skyrim from atmora but he is the most notable. But Skyrim was originally inhabited by the snow elves and the nords and snow elves lived in peace and co existence at first. but with population growth and other resources tensions increased and the snow elves fearing the ever growing nords slaughterd a city of them which is known as "Night of Tears" the survivors fled back to atmora gathered the famous "500 companions" then led an extinction against the elves.
So no skyrim was not theirs to begin with, they stole it.
Next part has spoilers for Dawnguard Quest
Also falmer are and are not elves. All falmer in skyrim are snow elves, but not every snow elf is a falmer.
When the snow elves had no where to run too they turned to the Dwarves ( Dwemer ) and they had to eat a toxic plant that turned them blind and after centuries of living underground and some suspect in slavery ( willingly or not ) they became the twisted beings known as falmer.
Except that
-The Skyforge, which is in the shape of an eagle, the ancient Nordic animal totem of Kyne, and sits in the shadow of the Throat of the world, is described as
http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Songs_of_the_Return
"Of those who wrought it solid from its mother-stone, nothing could be said, but it was known to drive a magic almost as old as Nirn itself, some remnant of the gods' efforts to render a paradise in Mundus before the shattering of Lorkhan."
Putting Kyne in Skyrim before Mer.
-"Shor son of Shor" puts not only Lorkhan and Kyne, but an army of Nords, at the Throat of the World before his sundering at convention. Which connects to the information we know about the Skyforge pre-dating Lorkhan's death.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/shor-son-shor-full
-Nu-Hatta, of the Sphinxmoth Inquiry Tree, says the following in the Nu-Mantia Intercept
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept
"Do not believe the written histories.
All mortal life started on the starry heart of Dawn's beauty, Tamriel."
-Even Gelebor in Dawnguard makes mention of the Nords attack being because they believed they were reclaiming their ancient homeland.
I'm not really sure what point you were trying to make about the Falmer in you spoiler, I never brought them up at all.
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-Trying to determine what "belongs" to whom in the TES world is just folly. You could say that the Empire "stole" all the other provinces and had no rights to it, but rights only exist (in practice) when they're agreed upon. Its hinted that the Nords have actually been migrating and emigrating to and from Skyrim well before Ysgramor. Quite possibly, the Nords where the original inhabitants of Skyrim, and when they left to Atmora the first time, the Falmer came. Or maybe it was the Elk and Deers who were first in Skyrim? Who in Coldharbour knows....
-Its worth mentioning that Hammerfell would not ally with the Empire considering what has happened. But a Stormcloak Skyrim..... Warrior culture, but importantly shared hatred of the Thalmor and the Aldmeri Dominion.... Those are grounds for an alliance. And considering that together they surround High Rock.... Well, just imagine if joint Redguard-Nord forces conquer High Rock? In effect, we have a new empire, with a lot of land, resources and gushing with Thalmor-hate... Enough to make the Thalmor shift uncomfortably on their pedestal, and sure to incite some anti-Thalmor sentiment in Cyrodiil and elsewhere.
-About Tiber Septim/Talos, I'm betting that the whole "ATMORAN, SON OF SKYRIM" thing is propaganda. Remember the Ghost of Old Hroldan? "Hjalti", "Aclaire". It's likely that he was a Nord by the name of Hjalti Early-Beard from Aclaire, gifted with the Voice.
-According to ancient legends, The Nrods were created on the throat of the world by Kyne at the dawn of time, meaning they would be the first inhabitants of skyrim.
-It isn't worth noting that Hammerfell wouldn't ally with The Empire because its not true in the slightest.
-Which I was pointing out
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Skyrim wasn't the nords to begin with. they stole it. "belongs" to the nords, is just a flat out lie.
That's not entirely accurate.
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-You have to remember that, before any of this happened, before the Empire even existed as we know it, there was Tiber Septim. Tiber Septim was brought up in Skyrim, he was a Nord, and he was also a Dragonborn.
-Through military conquest and his own strength, he defeated the enemies of the Nords as Talos and unified Cyrodiil under the Septim Dynasty, eventually conquering all of Tamriel under Imperial rule.
-The current Empire we know is trying to destroy everything Talos built in the name of succumbing to the wishes of a bunch of elves. I think Ulfric had every right to take back Skyrim from the Empire, because the Empire is no longer what it was created to be, but a weak and corrupt shell of itself.
-The Empire agreed to forsake the one person that brought it into existence to bend a knee to outsiders.
-No he wasn't, Tiber Septim was born and raised in the High Rock kingdom of Alcaire, and there's some evidence to show he wasn't even a nord.
-You mean through the powers of another, Ysmir Wulfharth, and through ordering the assassination of his own king, does he unify Cyrodiil under The Septim dynasty, along with the rest of Tamirel in a short time after.
-Actually, the empire as it is now is planning to screw over the elves.
-So that they could rebuild and gather their strength so they could overthrow those outsiders.
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I wouldn't say hes equal to Akatosh either, him being on a lower plane pretty much makes that impossible.
Alduin's level of existence is highly unique, with no other creature being in it but him. Above mortals, but below the divines. He is the 1.5, to the mortals 1, and the divines 2.
As for shor, he is Lorkhan, his place would be above alduin, at the same level as Akatosh.
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Alduin is the firstborn of Akatosh, he was split from Akatosh by the heavens themselves, and representable Akatosh on a lower plane of existence.
Just like anu and Padhome exist on the highest tier of life, and then sub-gradient themselves on a lower plane as Anuiel and Sithis, who in turn sub-gradient themselves on a even lower plane as Akatosh and Lorkhan.
Anu - Anuiel - Akatosh - Alduin
Padhome - Sithis - Lorkhan - Shezzarines?
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snip.
Why would being a divine's champion make you "allergic" to the deadra?
The Divines don't care about the Daedra, so long as they dont try to invade the world, nor do they care if people are Daedra worshipers.
And no daedra dont try to keep mortals as weak as possible, if anything, they are about making mortals more powerful, so that they sow the world with change.
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Considering at least some plants in Tamriel are green, I'm pretty sure photosynthesis still applies.
And again, blotting out the sun does not stop sunlight from coming through.
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We'll disagree on that one. The Real Barenziah states Mer are blessed with 'Thousand Year lifespans', though it can be assumed that few even approach the outer limits of their natural life. a lot can go wrong in a single century lifespan of a Human, let alone the lives of Mer. It is certain, however, that some Mer, such as Fyr who was supposedly about 4,000 years old, and Lachesis who was almost 3000 when he disappeared can extend their lifespans far beyond the norm, or even its outer limits, through magic.
Now... There is very limited information in support of the CoC being a Shezzarine, aside from the accumulation of the Crusader's artifacts. Even then, mortals had worn the artifacts before and gained from their power, so that in its self doesn't offer anymore than token support. It's far more likely that he was more like the Blades Agent from Daggerfall, a 'normal' hero rather than any divinely empowered on.
Second, the story about Arkay's mortal origins can be read as far more than 'just a story'. It can be seen as an echo of the re purposing of the Aedra with the creation of Mundus and the introduction of new domains (death did not exist before Mundus). It could also be a case of a poorly understood Mantling of Arkay.
I believe the real Barenziah meant that Mer can live to around 1000, but most of them never make it that far due to war, disease, famina, etc. etc., which makes the average Mer's lifespan around 200-300 years. Barenziah was considered old at 400 in Tribunal. Its much like how people could live to 70-80 easily in the medieval day, but the "average" human lifespan was 30 because of how many people died during infancy.
The difference between the CoC, and others using the relics, is that the coC is the only one who gained them ALL, and was blessed by the gods to complete that which was missing, the power of the ninth, who was missing in Pelinal's days. The prophet even specifically says you are Pelinal reborn.
Both time and space didn't exist before Mundus either, everything just WAS everywhere, and everywhen, and nowhere, and nowhen, but we dont see the creation or new gods in order to explain the re-purposing of time and space when Mundus was made.
As for it being a mantling story, no god, outside of Akatosh and Lorkhan, has ever been mantled, and the story lacks the mythic symbolism needed in order to support a mantling.
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1. Never played Morrowind really. I never understood being a reincarnated dead elf. Especially since said elf was a saint, but you can still choose to be extremely evil. What is that all about?! I'm confused.
2. Protagonist of Oblivion is just an ordinary person who happens to be good at kicking butt using mortal methods. Kind of like Batman. Unless of course they're a vampire, like all of my characters, but that doesn't really matter.
3. Protagonist of Skyrim is totally souped up on God-given superpowers. I believe he/she will ascend to godhood and become the tenth Divine, like Talos and Arkay did. (though I'm not exactly sure how either of them managed to do that, but still.) Or at least, he/she will go to some higher plane of existence. "The place where gods go".
1. Being made a saint only means you did a whole bunch of stuff that people liked. It doesnt prevent you fom doing evil things.
2. The protagonist of Oblivion is believed to be a Shezzarine, an avatar of Shezzar, which is the Imperial's version of Lorkhan, just like Pelinal Whitestrake, Ysmir wulfharth, Tiber Septim, and Zurin Arctus were. He is not just a normal man.
3. Talos became a divine because he is Lorkhan reborn, and took Lorkhan's place in the pantheon of gods as the 9th. arkay didn't ascend, he always was, the story of him being a shop keeper is just that, a story.
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First, All Mer can live for a thousand years if their lucky. Altmer tend to make it there more often, with Dunmer being a rather close second. Barenziah lived for at least 400 years (439, actually) and could very well be alive still.
That's not 100% true. The average Mer lifespan is around the same as Berenziah, if lucky, not 1000.
Living for 1000 years, or longer, is something that requires magics to achieve.
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The "environmental issues" are actually of concern. The temperature would eventually fall to less than -200 degrees Celcius, low enough to kill all thralls, men, and mer. Even mushrooms would die. And of coure, it would be literally impossible to drink blood at that temperature, even if the vampires somehow survived.
There would be no environmental effects, period.
The sun in the Elder Scrolls universe is not a giant ball of gas, but a portal to Atherius from which magic flows.
Blotting out the sun doesn't stop magic from coming through, nor does it stop heat, it only stops the harmful effects of pure atherial magic to vampires from coming through.
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-And as for the War of the Red Ring, he did not make any sort of logical decision at all when he came up with the Concordat (Yes, it was HIS idea, not the Dominion's).
-He spent the greater part of that battle cutting his way through the entirety of the Dominion's forces in Cyrodiil (to the point where every last Dominion soldier in the province was dead when the war ended) and after he finished,
-it was literally a matter of 1-2 days before he decided to do the exact opposite of every other war leader whose engaged in a similar conflict and gave his enemy the spoils of war. The Empire had the right to dictate the terms of peace, and for all the Dominion would have known, not to accept them would have meant even further annihilation.
-In all honesty, I'm sure it was a big surprise for the Dominion when they were approached with the Concordat. I mean, its not like they didn't just lose not only a massive portion of their entire army in what was a single battle against a united and organized force of Legion. What the Dominion faced when the Great War began was a far cry from what came down upon them during the War of the Red Ring.
-False, all demands within the concordant were demands that Titus Mede II refused to follow when the Dominion's ambassador come to Cyrodiil with the heads of all Blades agents in the Dominion's lands. He did not make it up, he simply signed it.
-Also false, nothing states every Dominion solider in Cyrodiil was dead, just that the army was destroyed, meaning it was broken.
-The difference between Mede's situation, and that of other leaders in history, is that all of Mede's lands were destroyed to the point of being unusable, and if he continued the war, he would be forced to split his already nearly nonexistent armed forces between rebuilding the province, and trying to hold off The Dominion, who had just as many forces left, and untouched lands, meaning the Dominion had a clear advantage because they had no need to divert men to rebuilding. Titus Mede's victory was totally phyrric, he won, but he got nothing but a destroyed, nearly unusable, province from it.
Both sides new this, Titus had no power to dictate anything, as anyone could see that if he continued the war, it would only go into a stalemate for years, with The Dominion eventually winning.
-I find this doubtful also, if anything, i bet they expected it, they knew they still had the advantage, and they knew Mede knew it also.
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if the Empire beats the Thalmor then TESVI starts with everything fine and no crisis for the PC to deal with.
a Thalmor victory means that the PC gets to kick Dominion butt all over Tamriel in order to restore the Empire.
which scenario would you rather have at the start of TESVI?
You speak as though the next game has to start with the next great war already over.
The "Last" Dragonborn?
in Skyrim LE
Posted · Edited by sajuukkhar9000
The scrolls do not dictate anything, merely foretell possibilities
Actually, the worlds Alduin eats dies. The gods make a new one, but the old does not continue inside Alduin.