pStyl3 Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) Hello guys, I'm modding my Skyrim for round about two and a half months now and my total number of installed (and working) modifications has risen to 105 as of now; with all sorts of mods: interface, house, graphic, sound, quest & dungeon, armor & body replacer, weapon and other miscellaneous mods (+ of course, the unofficial patches). Therefore and first of all: thanks to all the modders out there, you're doing an outstanding job with improving everyone's experience with Skyrim. Anyway, after I'm now using NMM, BOSS, SKSE, FNIS, XP32 Skeleton and some more "general tools & mods", I've discovered TES5Edit aswell. I've watched Gophers Tutorial .. he initially says "it's one thing for a mod author to clean his own mods, it's a completely other thing for you to go and blank clean all the mods for them". While I totally agree with that I would like to give it a shot anyway, just to see if I'm able to clean a few mods BOSS is reporting me to have issues. Now before beginning I have a few questions to begin with and I hope someone could help me there or give me his advice. Okay, starting, what does UDR mean in the BOSS log file? ITM means "Identical to Master", but I don't know what the UDR shortcut stands for. Now BOSS reports the following issues: LevelersTower.esm Active Contains dirty edits: 1 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here. LIAT - Sounds.esp Active Contains dirty edits: 43 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here. LIAT - NPCs.esp Active Contains dirty edits: 3 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here. Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp Active Contains dirty edits: 1 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here. BBLuxurySuiteExt.esp Active Contains dirty edits: 24 ITM, 3 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here. BBLSHousecarlsmovein.esp Active Contains dirty edits: 1 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here. BBLSspouse.esp Active Contains dirty edits: 1 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here. BBLSVisitors.esp Active Contains dirty edits: 14 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here. SummerWearSA.esp Active Contains dirty edits: 24 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here. SummerWearBBLS.esp Active Contains dirty edits: 6 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here. Killable Children - Quest Important Protected.esp Active Contains dirty edits: 11 ITM, 0 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here. Since, according to the video tutorial, there are sometimes "needed dirty edits" .. so in other words edits, TES5Edit reports to be dirty edits, but the author indeed need the specific edit for his mod, so it's "not really" a dirty edit. So I am now asking myself, if this counts for any of the mods listed above in the codebox? Or should I be perfectly fine cleaning these mods? In general the question could also be, how I can see the difference there, which ones are needed and which are not. Thanks in advance for any answer! Edited May 25, 2013 by pStyl3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirropoo Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 UDR: Undelete and Disable Reference. This has to do with OTHER MOD's accessing objects that your MOD may have removed, this tendsto crash the game ...so, instead of deleteing an object, we basicaly just hide it so it will be there if anotherMOD neeeds to reference it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luinithil Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 It's hard to tell if a mod is dirty or not just by looking at it alone. For this reason, I'd say that go ahead and clean UNLESS the modder specifically says not to, and tell the modder that their mod has dirty edits. Wild edits can be hard to spot as well since you can hardly tell it's there-- unless it's modding something very specific, and you see an edit to something else that has no relationship to what the mod is doing: odds are that IS a wild edit (better to confirm with modder too though). If you find later that cleaning the mod DOES give rise to issues, report it to the BOSS team so they can take the appropriate action in the masterlist and tell the modder as well, though usually the modder will have likely said that the dirty edits are there for a reason and are thus not "dirty", as in the case of the Unofficial Patches (it's why they always tell you to leave those alone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsmanners Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Here's a good rule of thumb for cleaning: Just don't do it. UDRs only matter if you've been unwisely juggling plugins with a character (and that has far more disturbing implications than mere UDRs). ITMs are a trivial nuisance that back in Oblivion might cause the engine to show a crash dialog on exit (and have no discernable effect on Skyrim). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pStyl3 Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 Thank you Sirropoo for answering my question! According to Luinithil I also asked the authors of 'Lively Inns and Taverns' as well as 'Bathing Beauties or Beefcake - Luxury Suite' (including 'SummerWear'). The result is, that the LIAT mod can be cleaned without worrying. I tried it and I don't recognize any issues ingame ... therefore everythings correct with this one. :smile: The ITMs of BBLS / SummerWear on the other hand are intentional so these ones should not be cleaned. And thanks for the warning gsmanners, but I'm still going for it. :smile: As far as I do understand the whole matter, ITMs aren't a definite guarantee that something will not work - but they can change values back other mods set before (as example); and that is obviously not wanted (even more if you have 100+ modifications installed and have at least 50 more on your list). Thats the whole reason why modders clean there own modifications, why people should be aware of it and why they are doing it. You must know, I'm not a careless guy who just tries things while he does not understand a thing of the matter. I only change things when I know what I'm doing, that's why I started this thread, to get advice. I'm also making backups, so no need to worry. Thanks for the answers. :smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsmanners Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Well, wherever ITMs create conflicts, then you have two things: ITMs and conflicts. Obviously, you need to fix anything that conflicts. That just goes without saying, but cleaning is no guarantee of preventing conflicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pStyl3 Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) You are right with that, I agree, but it's one of a few steps to solve problems (besides, correct load order (BOSS), reading installation instructions, not using mods which are incompatible to each other, and so on). Anyway, I have another thing which I would like to discuss. Topic this time is the Annael Follower mod by BravoOskar and zzjay, Link The author doesn't support his modifications anylonger because he stopped modding Skyrim in general, so I ask here. I'm using this follower mod for quite a time now, and actually I don't recognize any issues ingame. BOSS recognizes the plugin aswell, the mod has no dirty edits, too. The thing is, when I load every plugin in TES5Edit, it tells me the following: [01:12] Background Loader: [Annael.esp] Building reference info. [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord FULL [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord SNAM [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord SNAM [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord VTCK [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord RNAM [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord SPCT [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord SPLO [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord SPLO [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord SPLO [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord COCT [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord CNTO [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord CNTO [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord CNTO [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord CNTO [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord AIDT [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord PKID [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord PKID [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord PKID [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord CNAM [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord DNAM [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord PNAM [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord PNAM [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord PNAM [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord PNAM [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord HCLF [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord FTST [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord ZNAM [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord DOFT [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord CRIF [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord NAM9 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord NAMA [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord QNAM [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINI [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINC 434E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINV 564E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TIAS 53414954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINI [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINC 434E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINV 564E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TIAS 53414954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINI [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINC 434E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINV 564E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TIAS 53414954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINI [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINC 434E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINV 564E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TIAS 53414954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINI [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINC 434E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINV 564E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TIAS 53414954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINI [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINC 434E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINV 564E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TIAS 53414954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINI [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINC 434E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINV 564E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TIAS 53414954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINI [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINC 434E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TINV 564E4954 [01:12] Background Loader: Error: record NPC_ contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord TIAS 53414954 [01:12] Background Loader: Errors were found in: Annael [NPC_:5B000D65] [01:12] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: EDID OBND ACBS DATA NAM5 NAM6 NAM7 NAM8 FULL SNAM SNAM VTCK RNAM SPCT SPLO SPLO SPLO COCT CNTO CNTO CNTO CNTO AIDT PKID PKID PKID CNAM DNAM PNAM PNAM PNAM PNAM HCLF FTST ZNAM DOFT CRIF NAM9 NAMA QNAM TINI TINC TINV TIAS TINI TINC TINV TIAS TINI TINC TINV TIAS TINI TINC TINV TIAS TINI TINC TINV TIAS TINI TINC TINV TIAS TINI TINC TINV TIAS TINI TINC TINV TIAS What is the meaning of this? This is the only mod where TES5Edit gives me such error messages and like I said, normally I don't recognize ingame any issues. The backround loader of TES5Edit finishes his process whatsoever, so it doesn't get stuck at that. When loading only the Annael plugin with TES5Edit, and adding Filter for cleaning, I get this: http://abload.de/thumb/annaelkiub0.jpg Yellow means in TES5Edit "Override without conflict" (Green - "Multiple but no conflict"); so, that shouldn't be the problem, no? And like said, BOSS is telling me aswell, that this plugin does not contain any ITMs or UDRs. Maybe someone of you guys know what this means. Edit Friday Evening:I just found these two sites: Tes5Mod:Mod File Format and Tes5Mod:Mod File Format/Raw Data but as of now I still don't know how to handle this subject any further. Edited May 31, 2013 by pStyl3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMoneyYo Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 aaaaaaaaand from the looks of it, no one else knows either.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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