GAH... How can you make a plugin that is dependant on another plugin?

[SangRahl]

You have one mod with about 90% of the needed resources... you don't want to CHANGE anything within that mod, but create a dependant mod that uses the first as a Master file.

 

I've tried changing the original to an .esm file, but anything made from it into a new .esp does not refer to the original, and it is not listed as a Master to the new plugin (and... making the .esm myself isn't really viable in the long run, anyways).

 

I think roughboy figured out how to do this with his 'RL3 Personality Chip' mod... but he's been incommunicado for a while.

 

Am I missing something in the creation of the new .esp? Some kind of tickbox in the load or save screens? Or perhaps a 3rd-party program I've not used? (only really played with FOMM, FO3Archive, and GECK... well, except for extensive playing with GIMP, which is completely unrelated to the problem...)

 

Any assistance would be appreciated, as I'm starting to actually feel as desperate as this post sounds in my head. (Heheheh)

[Skotte]

there may be other ways but I'll tell you how I know it can be done.

 

one way: Open FO3edit ( http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=637 ) , let it load your entire mod list you intend to use, right-click the esp you want dependent & select "Add Masters...", select the file esp/esm to be the master.

 

A couple things of note about this method:

 

1 , If you doing this for body mods (custom eyes, hair etc) you'll need need to do this through Fo3edit.

2 , this method is good for personal use but isn't practical for a release mod as it requires that the master esp to be in the same load order location for everyone who uses the dependent esp.

 

second way: in FOMM use the the plugin editor to copy the forms needed from the "master esp" & paste to the the other esp.

 

this method is more flexible as the info is contained in the file that needs it. so it's a decent option if you intend to release it.

 

another way: use TES4Gecko ( http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8665 ) to convert your master esp into a true ESM, then when you load the new esm with the esp you want dependent it will be forever.

 

I hope my knowledge helps you figure the method best for what you want to do.

[SangRahl]

there may be other ways but I'll tell you how I know it can be done.

 

one way: Open FO3edit ( http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=637 ) , let it load your entire mod list you intend to use, right-click the esp you want dependent & select "Add Masters...", select the file esp/esm to be the master.

 

A couple things of note about this method:

 

1 , If you doing this for body mods (custom eyes, hair etc) you'll need need to do this through Fo3edit.

2 , this method is good for personal use but isn't practical for a release mod as it requires that the master esp to be in the same load order location for everyone who uses the dependent esp.

 

second way: in FOMM use the the plugin editor to copy the forms needed from the "master esp" & paste to the the other esp.

 

this method is more flexible as the info is contained in the file that needs it. so it's a decent option if you intend to release it.

 

another way: use TES4Gecko ( http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8665 ) to convert your master esp into a true ESM, then when you load the new esm with the esp you want dependent it will be forever.

 

I hope my knowledge helps you figure the method best for what you want to do.

You helped quite a bit, but I may need asome clarification about a few points. (Sorry, I try to be thorough, and I don't like having to retract a release or not keep promises made.)

 

Okay.... about FO3Edit option:

In #2, you say they'd need the same load order location... as in: in relation to each other, or in relation to the actual load order hex value? With my ungoldly list of mods that I'm using, the load order might be unatainable with people of more... discerning tastes. Heheheh.

 

Now... about the FOMM option:

This would just ensure that the new mod is starting from an identical base, and then can be changed in the small portions, as needed. I may consider this, but I'm really hoping that I could find a way that the GECK recognizes the Master file on loading the new plugin.

 

Finally... TES4Gecko:

This may be the best option, but it'd mean more direct cooperation by the original author... and likely adding a step or two to his current workload. (not to mention that it might invalidate current savegames for users already playing with the original mod installed)

 

Thanks for the swift reply... Now back to trying to figure out where the corner wall went from the inside of my Megaton House. (A completely unrelated mod conflict... and have been away from the house for so long, I have NO idea which mod decided to remodel for me. Heheheh.)

[Lingwei]

This has some interesting reading that should mostly apply to Fallout 3 as well (although the stuff about Wrye Bash is obviously not going to transfer).

 

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index...lation_Tutorial

[Skotte]

I completely understand SangRahl, it's good to have all the info you can get..

 

FO3Edit: yes the same hex load value because this method targets a specific file with a specific hex value

 

FOMM: yeah tthat's correct

 

TES4Gecko: I haven't tested it but it potentially could mess up the saves

[SangRahl]

I think I may end up just having to go with the old 'file precedence' system. I can't see a way to have the GECK refer EVERYTHING back to the Master, EXCEPT the cosmetic changes I've made, as these cosmetic changes require the use of new TextureSets and StaticModelObjects that the TextureSets apply to... and, as such, require the editing of the actual Item characteristics. (What was once only a single StaticModelObject and TextureSet is now 3 of each...) Oh, the fun of trying to fix Art Department laziness...

 

I may end up using FOMM to merge my current WIP .esp with what will end up being my Final .esp... That way I don't have GECK screwing with FormIDs every time I load up the "master plugin" and my "WIP plugin" at the same time.

 

Well, back to the GIMP grindstone. Thanks, again, for your prompt assistance in consolidating my theory that my initial idea is pretty much an impossibilty. Heheheh.

[SangRahl]

Well, I'm taking a look at FO3Edit to help in my building of the mod... Will see how well it goes. I'm thinking that I may end up removing the Mastery once finished, to negate the load-order issue. (Currently the Master is '5D'... I don't see the majority of players reaching or exceeding that many active mods. Heheheh.) That does seem an odd setup, though: to set Mastery to the Hex-address, and not the Mod's NAME. But... oh, well. I guess we'll see.

[Skotte]

Well, I'm taking a look at FO3Edit to help in my building of the mod... Will see how well it goes. I'm thinking that I may end up removing the Mastery once finished, to negate the load-order issue. (Currently the Master is '5D'... I don't see the majority of players reaching or exceeding that many active mods. Heheheh.) That does seem an odd setup, though: to set Mastery to the Hex-address, and not the Mod's NAME. But... oh, well. I guess we'll see.

 

the reason the Hex address is important is because the form ids use it as well and when you move the master esp(in the load order) there is no "change of address " & Fallout tries to find the exact Formid it was assigned to look for.

 

Personally I never liked the esp isolation in Oblivion & Fallout 3

[SangRahl]

No, I feell like an idiot... and I understand why they use Hex-address limiting for .esp masters.

 

So, new question... Is there a way to make an .esp file "patch" the preceding .esp file automatically. (Yes, a user could open FOMM, open both .esp's in TESsnip, and replace the needed info via copy/paste... but having to go through all of that, just to customize the look of a few weapons, seems a bit much to me. And what if they don't actually use FOMM? I understand there are a bunch of new mod managers coming out lately... not that I'd be switching from FOMM.)

 

What I've run into is that I'm not messing with any stats, but actually replacing (in every case I'm actually adding new) textures for models created by the initial mod. But, in doing this outside of the original mod, the formIDs of the original items are identical, but NOT, as the hexaddress is now off by '1'... ::sigh::

 

I read through the VERY informative post, and it was enlightening... but I'm afraid it doesn't help in creating a mod that is distributable, for what I'm attempting to accomplish. Even if I could have the original mod as an .esm, I'm afraid the formID values would still get changed and the items get borked. (just conjecture and likely a little lack of sleep on my part...)

[Skotte]

Sorry SangRahl, I don't know ofa method for auto-patching an ESP...

 

I just had an idea (no guarantee this would even work) but if the master esp had custom formids that were outside of the normal loadorder system and had the patch target those ids. that might work but there could be trouble with that as well

 

FOMM might help making the ids unique

 

Sorry if I'm starting to sound abit :wacko: