rilax Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Hello, For some reason i keep having returning freeze and ctd problems in skyrim. It are only ctd's and freezes. The ctd's can happen at completely random moments and the freezes usually occur when the engine has to deal with multiple things at the same time for example: instead of two factions fighting each other, three factions fighting each other, including a dragon, and having a snowy weather. My friend has a far worse pc and he can play it smoothly at almost the same graphics! Now before we go any further here are my pc specsIntel i7 2600 @3.4GhzGtx 590 ASUS, Core clock oc'd to 678Mhz and Memory Clock oc'd to 1851Mhz on stock voltageRunning the latest Geforce 325.71 DriversPSU: Cooler Master Silent Pro m2 850 watt8GB of RAM, running on a Windows 7 - 64 bit OSI already tried everything i could think off. To removing all my mods and starting a clean install, to disabling SLI, and using like every .ini tweak i could find to make the game run smoother. Alas to no avail. The game still freezes or CTD's and i think it isn't mod related because my papyrus log files are only around 20kb. Would this be a hardware or software related problem? I run the game at max settings since i am convinced my GPU should be able to handle that. It doesn't really make a difference when i turn the quality to the lowest settings since it still freezes when the engine has multiple tasks.Most of the time when i have the idea the game runs good i test it to see how it handles multiple things at once for example: spawning 20 Stormcloaks, 20 Imperials, and 20 dremora and the fps are running at 50-60 so the pc should be able to handle it looking at the hardwre side, but when something happens like a killmove or a spell the thing instantly freezes. The ctd's just happen at completely random moments for example when i'm walking trough a forest it can ctd, but it can also ctd when i'm doing nothing and just standing there.Thanks in advance,PS: Sorry for my bad English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted5770650User Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) I would try downloading the drivers from www.geforce.com (nvidia.com just sends you there).Where did you get the "latest Geforce 325.71 Drivers"? according to nvidia the newest beta driver for windows 7 x64 is 320.49 and the newest release driver is 320.18. Edited June 27, 2013 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prod80 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Try the older drivers: 314.22, they are very stable with Skyrim.Ini tweaks... post your ini files here in spoilers so we can see what is insideMods... post your mods here in spoilers, preferably an output of BOSS with all the messagesMods (again :p)... post the texture overhaul mods you use, with the resolutionPerformance log... Skyrim Performance Monitor (you can get it from here) will tell you your system resource use while playing, Skyrim is a 32bit application, it has some limitations that easily crash your (or anyone's) system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rilax Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 Alright i'm gonna do all those things and post them when i have a result thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rilax Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 I forgot to mention that i have also an enb installed, but my issue has been around for far longer then the enb has. It only seems to affect how quick the freezes happen hence the game having to do more things at once. I installed the Skyrim 2k hd texture pack. You could choose between lite and full and i chose full since i was convinced my GPU should be able to handle that. I can post my bosslog, skyrim.ini, and skyrimprefs.ini. when i try to upload the performance log it is too big so when i post the browser crashes and the screenshots size is too big to upload. here is my Skyrim.ini [General]iNumHWThreads=4iHWThread6=5iHWThread5=5iHWThread4=5iHWThread3=4iHWThread2=4iHWThread1=4iAIThread2HWThread=5iAIThread1HWThread=3iRenderingThread2HWThread=1iRenderingThread1HWThread=0sLanguage=ENGLISHbMultiThreadMovement=1bUseThreadedTempEffects=1bUseThreadedParticleSystem=1bMultiThreadMovement=1bUseThreadedMorpher=1uExterior Cell Buffer=36fMasterFilePreLoadMB=80.0000iPreloadSizeLimit=209715200bUseThreadedBlood=1bUseThreadedTextures=1bUseThreadedMeshes=1bUseThreadedLOD=1bUseThreadedAI=1bUseHardDriveCache=0bBorderRegionsEnabled=0 [Display]iPresentInterval=1fShadowLODMaxStartFade=1000.0fSpecularLODMaxStartFade=2000.0fLightLODMaxStartFade=3500.0iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=2048bAllowScreenshot=1 [Audio]fMusicDuckingSeconds=6.0fMusicUnDuckingSeconds=8.0fMenuModeFadeOutTime=3.0fMenuModeFadeInTime=1.0 [Grass]bAllowCreateGrass=1bAllowLoadGrass=0iMaxGrassTypesPerTexure=6 [GeneralWarnings]SGeneralMasterMismatchWarning=One or more plugins could not find the correct versions of the master files they depend on. Errors may occur during load or game play. Check the "Warnings.txt" file for more information. [Archive]sResourceArchiveList=Skyrim - Misc.bsa, Skyrim - Shaders.bsa, Skyrim - Textures.bsa, Skyrim - Interface.bsa, Skyrim - Animations.bsa, Skyrim - Meshes.bsa, Skyrim - Sounds.bsasResourceArchiveList2=Skyrim - Voices.bsa, Skyrim - VoicesExtra.bsa [Combat]fMagnetismStrafeHeadingMult=0.0fMagnetismLookingMult=0.0fMagnetismStrafeHeadingMult=0.0fMagnetismLookingMult=0.0f1PArrowTiltUpAngle=0.7f3PArrowTiltUpAngle=0.7f1PBoltTiltUpAngle=0.7f3PBoltTiltUpAngle=0.7 [Actor]fVisibleNavmeshMoveDist=12288.0000 [Papyrus]fUpdateBudgetMS=1.6fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=1.6fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=2000iMinMemoryPageSize=256iMaxMemoryPageSize=8192iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=8388608fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=500.0bEnableLogging=1bEnableTrace=1bLoadDebugInformation=1 [Water]bReflectLODObjects=1bReflectLODLand=1bReflectSky=1bReflectLODTrees=1 [backgroundLoad]bBackgroundLoadLipFiles=1bLoadBackgroundFaceGen=1bUseMultiThreadedFaceGen=1bBackgroundCellLoads=1bLoadHelmetsInBackground=1bUseMultiThreadedTrees=1bUseBackgroundFileLoader=1 [Animation]bMultiThreadBoneUpdate=1 [HAVOK]iNumThreads=1bEdbugMultiThreaded=0 [Decals]bDecalMultithreaded=1 [budgetCaps]uActorMemoryBudgetCap=10485760uLoadedAreaNonActorMemoryBudgetCap=185597952uWaterMemoryInterior=10485760uTextureMemoryInterior=10485760uGeometryMemoryInterior=10485760uWaterMemory=5242880uTextureMemory=10485760uGeometryMemory=5242880 skyrimprefs[General]bBorderRegionsEnabled=0fBrightLightColorB=1.0000fBrightLightColorG=1.0000fBrightLightColorR=1.0000iStoryManagerLoggingEvent=-1bEnableStoryManagerLogging=0[imagespace]bDoDepthOfField=1iRadialBlurLevel=2[Display]iBlurDeferredShadowMask=3fInteriorShadowDistance=3000.0000fShadowDistance=8000.0000iShadowMapResolutionSecondary=1024iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=2048iShadowSplitCount=2iMaxAnisotropy=16fLeafAnimDampenDistEnd=4600.0000fLeafAnimDampenDistStart=3600.0000fTreesMidLODSwitchDist=10000000.0000fGamma=1.0000fDecalLOD2=1500.0000fDecalLOD1=1000.0000fSpecularLODStartFade=2000.0000fShadowLODStartFade=200.0000fLightLODStartFade=3500.0000iTexMipMapMinimum=0iTexMipMapSkip=0iWaterMultiSamples=0iMultiSample=0iShadowMode=3bTreesReceiveShadows=1bDrawLandShadows=1bFull Screen=1iSize H=1080iSize W=1920fMeshLODFadePercentDefault=1.2000fMeshLODFadeBoundDefault=256.0000fMeshLODLevel2FadeTreeDistance=2048.0000fMeshLODLevel1FadeTreeDistance=2844.0000fMeshLODLevel2FadeDist=10000000.0000fMeshLODLevel1FadeDist=10000000.0000iScreenShotIndex=18bShadowMaskZPrepass=0bMainZPrepass=0iMaxSkinDecalsPerFrame=25iMaxDecalsPerFrame=100bFloatPointRenderTarget=1sD3DDevice="NVIDIA GeForce GTX 590"iAdapter=0iPresentInterval=1bFXAAEnabled=0iShadowMapResolution=4096fShadowBiasScale=0.1500iShadowMaskQuarter=4iShadowFilter=3bShadowsOnGrass=1bTransparencyMultisampling=0bDeferredShadows=1bDrawShadows=1[Grass]b30GrassVS=1fGrassStartFadeDistance=7000.0000fGrassMaxStartFadeDistance=7000.0000fGrassMinStartFadeDistance=0.0000[MAIN]bBorderRegionsEnabled=0bGamepadEnable=1bCrosshairEnabled=1fHUDOpacity=1.0000bSaveOnPause=1bSaveOnTravel=1bSaveOnWait=1bSaveOnRest=1fSkyCellRefFadeDistance=150000.0000[GamePlay]bShowFloatingQuestMarkers=1bShowQuestMarkers=1iDifficulty=0[interface]bDialogueSubtitles=1bGeneralSubtitles=1fMouseCursorSpeed=1.0000bShowCompass=1[Controls]fGamepadHeadingSensitivity=1.0000fMouseHeadingSensitivity=0.0125bAlwaysRunByDefault=1bInvertYValues=0bGamePadRumble=1bMouseAcceleration=0bUseKinect=0[Particles]iMaxDesired=750[saveGame]fAutosaveEveryXMins=15.0000[AudioMenu]fAudioMasterVolume=1.0000fVal7=1.0000uID7=0fVal6=1.0000uID6=0fVal5=1.0000uID5=0fVal4=1.0000uID4=0fVal3=1.0000uID3=94881fVal2=1.0000uID2=466532fVal1=1.0000uID1=554685fVal0=0.8000uID0=1007612[Clouds]fCloudLevel2Distance=262144.0000fCloudLevel1Distance=32768.0000fCloudLevel0Distance=16384.0000fCloudNearFadeDistance=9000.0000[TerrainManager]fTreeLoadDistance=75000.0000fBlockMaximumDistance=250000.0000fBlockLevel1Distance=70000.0000fBlockLevel0Distance=35000.0000fSplitDistanceMult=1.5000bShowLODInEditor=0[NavMesh]fObstacleAlpha=0.5000fCoverSideHighAlpha=0.8000fCoverSideLowAlpha=0.6500fEdgeFullAlpha=1.0000fEdgeHighAlpha=0.7500fEdgeLowAlpha=0.5000fTriangleFullAlpha=0.7000fTriangleHighAlpha=0.3500fTriangleLowAlpha=0.2000fLedgeBoxHalfHeight=25.0000fEdgeDistFromVert=10.0000fEdgeThickness=10.0000fPointSize=2.5000[Trees]bRenderSkinnedTrees=1uiMaxSkinnedTreesToRender=20[Decals]uMaxDecals=1000bDecals=1bSkinnedDecals=1uMaxSkinDecals=100uMaxSkinDecalsPerActor=60[LOD]fLODFadeOutMultObjects=15.0000fLODFadeOutMultItems=15.0000fLODFadeOutMultActors=15.0000fLODFadeOutMultSkyCell=1.0000[Launcher]bEnableFileSelection=1bShowAllResolutions=1uLastAspectRatio=3[blurShaderHDR]bDoHighDynamicRange=1[blurShader]bUseBlurShader=0[Water]iWaterReflectHeight=512iWaterReflectWidth=512bUseWaterDisplacements=1bUseWaterRefractions=1bUseWaterReflections=1bUseWaterDepth=1 With the multicore tweaks the game also did run a bit better. Let's hope we can find out what's causing these freezes all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prod80 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Multicore tweaks don't help - it has long been fixed in Skyrim update... So you can tell the game to thread a few things, fine, but you should remove to tell the game on which core to thread things. Anyway, for the sake of troubleshooting - make backup of those ini files and remove the originals. Verify game files with steam to make new ones. You need to rule out problems in your ini files. Skyrim HD full is too much to handle if you run other mods as well. I have 8GB RAM and 4GB VRAM and I cant use Skyrim HD full - I CTD due to restrictions of Skyrim being 32bit. So try the Lite version. Realistic Lighting Overhaul is incompatible with Climates of Tamriel interior lighting - pick either one, not bothRealistic Lighting Overhaul - load order is wrongImmersive Mods, what do they add? If they add anything to cities they could be incompatible with RLO. In any case load before RLO. Same for any city mod. Other than that I don't see anything weird in your load order. The performance monitor that you have - run it until crash - if you see your RAM usage (not VRAM) hit >3GB it's probably the cause of the crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard131 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I forgot to mention that i have also an enb installed, but my issue has been around for far longer then the enb has. It only seems to affect how quick the freezes happen hence the game having to do more things at once. I installed the Skyrim 2k hd texture pack. You could choose between lite and full and i chose full since i was convinced my GPU should be able to handle that. I can post my bosslog, skyrim.ini, and skyrimprefs.ini. when i try to upload the performance log it is too big so when i post the browser crashes and the screenshots size is too big to upload. here is my Skyrim.ini [General]iNumHWThreads=4iHWThread6=5iHWThread5=5iHWThread4=5iHWThread3=4iHWThread2=4iHWThread1=4iAIThread2HWThread=5iAIThread1HWThread=3iRenderingThread2HWThread=1iRenderingThread1HWThread=0sLanguage=ENGLISHbMultiThreadMovement=1bUseThreadedTempEffects=1bUseThreadedParticleSystem=1bMultiThreadMovement=1bUseThreadedMorpher=1uExterior Cell Buffer=36fMasterFilePreLoadMB=80.0000iPreloadSizeLimit=209715200bUseThreadedBlood=1bUseThreadedTextures=1bUseThreadedMeshes=1bUseThreadedLOD=1bUseThreadedAI=1bUseHardDriveCache=0bBorderRegionsEnabled=0 [Display]iPresentInterval=1fShadowLODMaxStartFade=1000.0fSpecularLODMaxStartFade=2000.0fLightLODMaxStartFade=3500.0iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=2048bAllowScreenshot=1 [Audio]fMusicDuckingSeconds=6.0fMusicUnDuckingSeconds=8.0fMenuModeFadeOutTime=3.0fMenuModeFadeInTime=1.0 [Grass]bAllowCreateGrass=1bAllowLoadGrass=0iMaxGrassTypesPerTexure=6 [GeneralWarnings]SGeneralMasterMismatchWarning=One or more plugins could not find the correct versions of the master files they depend on. Errors may occur during load or game play. Check the "Warnings.txt" file for more information. [Archive]sResourceArchiveList=Skyrim - Misc.bsa, Skyrim - Shaders.bsa, Skyrim - Textures.bsa, Skyrim - Interface.bsa, Skyrim - Animations.bsa, Skyrim - Meshes.bsa, Skyrim - Sounds.bsasResourceArchiveList2=Skyrim - Voices.bsa, Skyrim - VoicesExtra.bsa [Combat]fMagnetismStrafeHeadingMult=0.0fMagnetismLookingMult=0.0fMagnetismStrafeHeadingMult=0.0fMagnetismLookingMult=0.0f1PArrowTiltUpAngle=0.7f3PArrowTiltUpAngle=0.7f1PBoltTiltUpAngle=0.7f3PBoltTiltUpAngle=0.7 [Actor]fVisibleNavmeshMoveDist=12288.0000 [Papyrus]fUpdateBudgetMS=1.6fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=1.6fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=2000iMinMemoryPageSize=256iMaxMemoryPageSize=8192iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=8388608fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=500.0bEnableLogging=1bEnableTrace=1bLoadDebugInformation=1 [Water]bReflectLODObjects=1bReflectLODLand=1bReflectSky=1bReflectLODTrees=1 [backgroundLoad]bBackgroundLoadLipFiles=1bLoadBackgroundFaceGen=1bUseMultiThreadedFaceGen=1bBackgroundCellLoads=1bLoadHelmetsInBackground=1bUseMultiThreadedTrees=1bUseBackgroundFileLoader=1 [Animation]bMultiThreadBoneUpdate=1 [HAVOK]iNumThreads=1bEdbugMultiThreaded=0 [Decals]bDecalMultithreaded=1 [budgetCaps]uActorMemoryBudgetCap=10485760uLoadedAreaNonActorMemoryBudgetCap=185597952uWaterMemoryInterior=10485760uTextureMemoryInterior=10485760uGeometryMemoryInterior=10485760uWaterMemory=5242880uTextureMemory=10485760uGeometryMemory=5242880 skyrimprefs[General]bBorderRegionsEnabled=0fBrightLightColorB=1.0000fBrightLightColorG=1.0000fBrightLightColorR=1.0000iStoryManagerLoggingEvent=-1bEnableStoryManagerLogging=0[imagespace]bDoDepthOfField=1iRadialBlurLevel=2[Display]iBlurDeferredShadowMask=3fInteriorShadowDistance=3000.0000fShadowDistance=8000.0000iShadowMapResolutionSecondary=1024iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=2048iShadowSplitCount=2iMaxAnisotropy=16fLeafAnimDampenDistEnd=4600.0000fLeafAnimDampenDistStart=3600.0000fTreesMidLODSwitchDist=10000000.0000fGamma=1.0000fDecalLOD2=1500.0000fDecalLOD1=1000.0000fSpecularLODStartFade=2000.0000fShadowLODStartFade=200.0000fLightLODStartFade=3500.0000iTexMipMapMinimum=0iTexMipMapSkip=0iWaterMultiSamples=0iMultiSample=0iShadowMode=3bTreesReceiveShadows=1bDrawLandShadows=1bFull Screen=1iSize H=1080iSize W=1920fMeshLODFadePercentDefault=1.2000fMeshLODFadeBoundDefault=256.0000fMeshLODLevel2FadeTreeDistance=2048.0000fMeshLODLevel1FadeTreeDistance=2844.0000fMeshLODLevel2FadeDist=10000000.0000fMeshLODLevel1FadeDist=10000000.0000iScreenShotIndex=18bShadowMaskZPrepass=0bMainZPrepass=0iMaxSkinDecalsPerFrame=25iMaxDecalsPerFrame=100bFloatPointRenderTarget=1sD3DDevice="NVIDIA GeForce GTX 590"iAdapter=0iPresentInterval=1bFXAAEnabled=0iShadowMapResolution=4096fShadowBiasScale=0.1500iShadowMaskQuarter=4iShadowFilter=3bShadowsOnGrass=1bTransparencyMultisampling=0bDeferredShadows=1bDrawShadows=1[Grass]b30GrassVS=1fGrassStartFadeDistance=7000.0000fGrassMaxStartFadeDistance=7000.0000fGrassMinStartFadeDistance=0.0000[MAIN]bBorderRegionsEnabled=0bGamepadEnable=1bCrosshairEnabled=1fHUDOpacity=1.0000bSaveOnPause=1bSaveOnTravel=1bSaveOnWait=1bSaveOnRest=1fSkyCellRefFadeDistance=150000.0000[GamePlay]bShowFloatingQuestMarkers=1bShowQuestMarkers=1iDifficulty=0[interface]bDialogueSubtitles=1bGeneralSubtitles=1fMouseCursorSpeed=1.0000bShowCompass=1[Controls]fGamepadHeadingSensitivity=1.0000fMouseHeadingSensitivity=0.0125bAlwaysRunByDefault=1bInvertYValues=0bGamePadRumble=1bMouseAcceleration=0bUseKinect=0[Particles]iMaxDesired=750[saveGame]fAutosaveEveryXMins=15.0000[AudioMenu]fAudioMasterVolume=1.0000fVal7=1.0000uID7=0fVal6=1.0000uID6=0fVal5=1.0000uID5=0fVal4=1.0000uID4=0fVal3=1.0000uID3=94881fVal2=1.0000uID2=466532fVal1=1.0000uID1=554685fVal0=0.8000uID0=1007612[Clouds]fCloudLevel2Distance=262144.0000fCloudLevel1Distance=32768.0000fCloudLevel0Distance=16384.0000fCloudNearFadeDistance=9000.0000[TerrainManager]fTreeLoadDistance=75000.0000fBlockMaximumDistance=250000.0000fBlockLevel1Distance=70000.0000fBlockLevel0Distance=35000.0000fSplitDistanceMult=1.5000bShowLODInEditor=0[NavMesh]fObstacleAlpha=0.5000fCoverSideHighAlpha=0.8000fCoverSideLowAlpha=0.6500fEdgeFullAlpha=1.0000fEdgeHighAlpha=0.7500fEdgeLowAlpha=0.5000fTriangleFullAlpha=0.7000fTriangleHighAlpha=0.3500fTriangleLowAlpha=0.2000fLedgeBoxHalfHeight=25.0000fEdgeDistFromVert=10.0000fEdgeThickness=10.0000fPointSize=2.5000[Trees]bRenderSkinnedTrees=1uiMaxSkinnedTreesToRender=20[Decals]uMaxDecals=1000bDecals=1bSkinnedDecals=1uMaxSkinDecals=100uMaxSkinDecalsPerActor=60[LOD]fLODFadeOutMultObjects=15.0000fLODFadeOutMultItems=15.0000fLODFadeOutMultActors=15.0000fLODFadeOutMultSkyCell=1.0000[Launcher]bEnableFileSelection=1bShowAllResolutions=1uLastAspectRatio=3[blurShaderHDR]bDoHighDynamicRange=1[blurShader]bUseBlurShader=0[Water]iWaterReflectHeight=512iWaterReflectWidth=512bUseWaterDisplacements=1bUseWaterRefractions=1bUseWaterReflections=1bUseWaterDepth=1 With the multicore tweaks the game also did run a bit better. Let's hope we can find out what's causing these freezes all the time You might review these threads http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/999432-skyrim-vram-usage/ This thread had a resolution on a similar video card. http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/998403-ctd-black-or-blueish-texures-performance-logs-inside/page-3&do=findComment&comment=8111887 Your card could also have issues . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rilax Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 Thanks for the info i am going to try Skyrim with the default .ini's now. I also looked trough the threads you send me Reynard but so far i didn't see anything that could be the problem. I did add the bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 3072 line trough maybe it helps. I already had RLO disabled since BOSS told me it was incompatible so that shouldn't be the problem. The VRAM also does not go over 3GB so i don't think it's that either. Could Skyrim also freeze instead of ctd because the hi-res texture pack is too much? Or does that have to do with RAM? Because ctd's are not that common it's more the never ending freezing that's been bothering me since as long as i can remember. This problem has managed to persist trough multiple clean installs and new saves, but nothing worked. Beth asked me to send them a md5 file, but with all mods removed since "they don't support modded games". Fair enough but i am fairly sure it aren't my mods and i would like use that as my last resort. Would be a bummer if nothing worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunyra Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Skyrim HD full is too much to handle if you run other mods as well. I have 8GB RAM and 4GB VRAM and I cant use Skyrim HD full - I CTD due to restrictions of Skyrim being 32bit. So try the Lite version.Yep, Skyrim crashes when TESV.exe is close to 3.2GB of Memory usage. http://forum.step-project.com/showthread.php?tid=1929 I have the same issue, but earlier today i swapped all Texture Mods from 2K to 1K where possible. Edited June 28, 2013 by SvarogNL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rilax Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) The thing is i have never seen Skyrim actually use more then 2GB. It always keeps hanging around 2 i've never actually seen it use 2.5 or something. Are there reports of the LAA patch by Beth not working or would i perhaps have to change something manually? I would figure with an enb and hi-res texture pack the RAM would rocket to the amounts of 3.2Gb like yours. PS: Svarog you from holland? Edited June 28, 2013 by rilax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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