that's a bunch of BS AAAAA! seriously, need help w/ BSA.

[bobbyskel78]

Several questions, ... yep, all about BSA.

I'm horribly sick of looking at the conflicts of the unofficial patches, minus the DLC, as it doesn't seem to conflict w/ anything. Taking just UOP as an example. I would like to unpack the relevant flawed official patches, write over them with the unofficial and pack them back up ... minus the esp files. I haven't had a chance to look at the UOP or USIP to see exactly if any of the data files (ie. textures, meshes ... etc) are even being used by the esp's. The end-goal ... 2 less files that seem to conflict on the lower end of things, although i think that's in perspective of when something was installed, as i'm learning using Wrye. So?

I've already taken every other mod that contains a bsa and unpacked them, which makes me wonder, i deleted the initial bsa ... the mod should skip looking for the archive and go directly to the data directory, correct?

One two part mod had me a bit concerned, as it also had two differently named bsa's. on one-hand, i was thinking of just creating a folder with the bsa's name (ie. somemod.bsa <-folder name) by default, this is the first place the mod would look ... correct, or should i just dump the files into the data directory?

ok, thirdly. there's a ton of different texture, mesh, lod ... etc. packs. it's pretty straight forward which order they should be installed in, but i would like to pack them in some sort of sequential order or perhaps just write over the root BSA archives (ie. dump qarl's texture pack on top of UOP, who's on top of the OB Textures - compressed)

i know, sounds like a bit o' work, yet it sure would alleviate umpteenth different conflicts.

finally, came across a large mod w/o a bsa ... ermm, how do i go about using a bsa for "large mod"?

ok, i know i'm stuck at a 2GB max, which i suppose would bring up another question. is it possible to string several BSA's together (ie. textures01.bsa, textures02.bsa, ... etc) what pieces them together.

a good ref is just as good as a good answer, been looking and can't find anything.

[Striker879]

If you change the folder paths of an unpacked BSA you will only get missing meshes and possibly textures (except meshes that use vanilla textures).

[bobbyskel78]

i'm not changing the paths, i'm just unpacking some of the bsa's ... mostly the compressed ones into the data folder ... sorta. i unpack them from a bsa and then repack them uncompressed in 7zip and put that into my mod manager ... wrye mostly. wrye doesn't seem to have a problem w/ 7zip files > 2GB.

i think i might have found the answer i was looking for everything i wanted to know about bsa's

 

apparently, if i have a esp, any variation will work, so long as the esp's name is included.

(ie. mymod.esp -> mymod - textures.bsa, mymod - meshes ... etc)

it appears and please correct me if i'm wrong. a dummy esp can be used. (ie. bettercities.esp is only 1kB and the reference for all of the bsa's in that mod) so, with what i want to do, i could create ... this is where i'm unsure ... create multiple uncompressed bsa's.

ie: unofficial oblivion patch - textures.bsa, ... unofficial shivering isles patch - textures ... correct?

tx for the response, btw YAOF.

Edited July 18, 2021 by bobbyskel78

[bobbyskel78]

On a final note, i've noted unpacking many of the BSA files that bsacmd doesn't have a interpretation for most of the hex flags. x02 x03 x707 x703 ... did anyone figure out what they're there for? thus far, i just try to maintain the same flags minus/plus the known ones.

[bobbyskel78]

ok ... still scratching my head. the UOP & USIP are supposed to over-write existing Oblivion files. I ran into this prob in the past, the DLC Shivering Isles.esp is a dummy file, but if one deactivates it, you also deactivate DLC Shivering Isles.bsa.

i renamed the folders <shorthand> to UOP.bsa & USIP.bsa ... this isn't going to work, as it has to over-write the files Oblivion - xxx.bsa. hmmm, guess i need to unpack the Oblivion bsa files, over-write with U and then re-pack. ???? ... or just deal w/ the conflict messages.

guess i'll try that, back up the existing and see if the game immediately CTD.

[Striker879]

The method by which the UOPs work to replace items with new is BSA Redirection.

 

BSA Redirection works by using file time/date stamps to replace assets in a BSA with loose files having exactly the same path as the asset in the BSA it is meant to replace, where the BSA date is older than the replacement loose file.

 

BSA Redirection isn't designed for one BSA to override another BSA. Perhaps something like SkyBSA is capable of that (I have no experience on that front).

[DrakeTheDragon]

BSA Redirection is just the one approach to Archive Invalidation which removes the very need for archive invalidation itself once and for all. Archive Invalidation, no matter which approach, is what tells the game which external (loose) files to use over internal (BSA) ones.

 

Yes, the Vanilla game can't have conflicting files in two or more BSAs. The order in which they load is not defined. You'll never know which BSA's file will take precedence over the other or at which time, as it's also reported to change from start of game to start of game.

That's why BSAs are never used in "replacement" type mods.

 

The UOP can't have replacement files in BSAs. What it can have though, been a while, can't check, is new files in different places made used in place of the originals through changing the paths inside an ESP. There's several replacer type mods doing it this way, without even touching the original files at all.

 

And yes, SkyBSA makes "all" of this needless in one go, Archive Invalidation, BSA load order/conflicts, loose files always having priority over all else, everything is told to be exactly like in Skyrim when it's used.

 

 

Yes, you can have an unlimited number of BSAs "autoload" with just 1 single ESP. As long as the filename "starts" with the ESP's, it doesn't matter what else you append (or so I've learned).

 

Turning BSAs into 7-Zip, now there's an interesting idea. People have extracted their BSAs to loose files for decades with always mixed results. Some reported improved performance, some decreased, some no changes at all.

 

Turning every BSA (or multiple BSAs together) into a mod (.7z) managed by BAIN... can't say I've ever heard that idea so far. Sounds interesting. Unlike with BSAs, those definitely will have a set order in which they load and priority which conflicting/replacing ones will be used at the end.

But there won't be a "need" for extracting even the game's own Vanilla BSAs, if you're going that way. Properly set up Archive Invalidation, or using SkyBSA, will be all that's needed for this idea to work.

 

Oh, but, one thing I almost forgot... You know how Wrye Bash's BAIN is operating, don't you? It "extracts" all its mods (.7z) directly into your Data folder, where everything will lie as loose files, just as in good old times. So it's not "exactly" the same as having BSAs. The compression aspect is gone once you "install".

[bobbyskel78]

I primarily quoted Drake, albeit any ones comment is appreciated. A bit ago, i was trying to get procmon (wininternals)(a regedit/file monitor) to work for a different reason. although, i'm thinking i need to go back and see if i can get it to work so i can see exactly how the game engine is accessing files ... well, unless someone already knows the answer of course.

Drake, "

Yes, the Vanilla game can't have conflicting files in two or more BSAs." Do you mean conflicts in the same bsa ... i'm pretty sure that's impossible, as one would over-write the other, unless that's not what was meant "The order in which they load is not defined. You'll never know which BSA's file will take precedence over the other or at which time, as it's also reported to change from start of game to start of game.

That's why BSAs are never used in "replacement" type mods." For some reason, in Wrye i've set for it to ignore Beth files, i'm assuming this means the root Oblivion BSA's. When going through the installers, bsa conflict is noted, although i was under the assumption that post dated archive takes priority. As an example, i currently have WAC showing a lower bsa conflict w/ Oblivion-Textures and a higher bsa conflict w/ Immersive Weapons. Both of the latter came packaged as bsa files. Doesn't the re-direction solve this?

 

After messing around w/ it for ... well, too long, i've come to the conclusion that quest mods and some shops are best kept in a BSA, preferably uncompressed, everything else seems better using as 7z installers in Wrye. I have noticed that Wrye installers, the lower in the list takes precedence. Not much that LOOT can do for that, it just seems a logical approach of what should take precedence over what. (ie. UOP, really textured, Qarl, 2020 texture, AWLS ... etc)

all of my 7z files are uncompressed ... as are all of the BSA files. i believe the only advantage given here for the installers, is less game loading time. Drake, "You know how Wrye Bash's BAIN is operating, don't you? It "extracts" all its mods (.7z) directly into your Data folder, where everything will lie as loose files, just as in good old times. So it's not "exactly" the same as having BSAs. The compression aspect is gone once you "install"." do you mean that Wrye is in essence doing a ordered manual install of the installers and only once, upon install? No, i didn't know that ... i've only been using it for a week or two now and just recently got my game back up and running.

in ref to bsa files, i'm uncertain how the game functions, does it first check for a bsa and then loose files? I suppose an additional question w/ all the tinkering, bsa files have flags on the type of data they contain (ie. dds, nif, sound ... etc), so does the game search based on the type of file, example: in a cell a dds file from mymod.esp is needed. a bsa file exists for the textures, meshes, sounds, voice, ... etc. does the game engine know to only check the mod ... mymod - textures.bsa (name is irrelevant, it has the contains dds flag checked, the others don't <mymod - meshes.bsa> then look for a loose file?

Ultimately, i don't mind using bsa files, it adds tidy little packages where mod specific patches can be applied. i suppose a metaphor, everyone is a slave to the oblivion.esm file, but their branches may not touch others. so i suppose just like doing a search on a pc, the more files (loose in this case), the longer the search will take. with that logic, it seems more practical to use uncompressed bsa files whereever possible.

any who, the whole point of this, i'm not running some rinky-dink rig, but i'm running a great deal fps draining mods, particullarly w/ the spawn size and high rez textures, so trying to squeeze every ounce ... bit, i can out of the rig.

i kinda' finally got the whole of bsa re-direction, although i'm also using archive invalidating invalidated (think that's the name), seems pointless to register the other bsa's, just oblivion registered.

i did have a bit of an odd-ball question. i took all of my DLC's and packaged them into a 7z (uncompressed ... i use the archives more for organization). it was the first in the list of my installers. everytime i refreshed the installers, Wrye would ... deactivate??? it showed that all of the dlcshiveringisles were missing ... dlcshiveringisles.esp (i believe, also a dummy file that LOOT used to always uncheck, which kept pi$$ing me off, as that nullifies the bsa files) did exist. i've resorted to just dumping the files into the data directory. more of a question of curiosity, why was Wrye doing that. (before ya' ask, i had the dlc's in an archive that was copied from the GOTY version which i could never get to work, to my original PC version)

i suppose i'll stop there for brevity and also reading long comments gets me stressed out, so treat others as you would want to be treated, right.

tx again for the commentary, unfortunately, the more i read, the more questions are popping up.

[bobbyskel78]

see if i can insert a pic, as everyone loves em'.

Wrye w/ bsa conflict

from the previous comment. the image should be legible, i just did a prnt/scr. Wrye is showing the installer as green (no conflict, mismat ... etc), but as stated above, it does contain both a lower and higher bsa conflict.