Medieval Scenes (WIP)

[Gauthie]

good god, what a waste of polygons...

There is no reason to have anything but a normal map on stuff like that. You will not notice the difference unless studying it. Not to count that for every polygon you spend on things like that, you must take from something else.

 

Other than that, and the weird shapes of some stones, it looks good.

 

Purely subjective, it highly depends of the level of detail you're expecting, and how you handle optimization.

 

"Waste of polygons"; Considering the Sculpt Detail only triggers a few meters from the model (LOD Stage), A matter of proper optimization. The Witcher II used the exact same process on architecture models (pseudo-tessellation), and the game runs quite well as far as i'm concerned.

 

"There is no reason to have anything but a normal map on stuff like that."; A matter of perspective, from fifteen meters, the wall is entirely flat and only has a normal map.

 

"You'll not notice the difference until studying it"; It remains an entirely subjective consideration.

 

"Other than that, and the weird shapes of some stones, it looks good."; Thanks, this is more of a case of study than anything else for now.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Gauthie

[Celegon]

Good job.

 

I don't see any waste of polygons here, though as you said, it's subjective, or "a matter of taste" as they say. In any case, it is not really a matter of performances indeed - not for 3k polygons planes at least, even if you'd use 20 of them in a 3x3 cell area let's say. And considering that you've also made LOD meshes... well, even better.

 

The Skyrim engine can handles this (and more, actually), and textures (and occasionally some scripts) _are_ the usual fps bottleneck much more often than the polycount.

 

bon boulot :smile:

- Celegon / aka Lone Architect on Beyond Skyrim.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Celegon

[Matth85]

Good job.

 

I don't see any waste of polygons here, though as you said, it's subjective, or "a matter of taste" as they say. In any case, it is not really a matter of performances indeed - not for 3k polygons planes at least, even if you'd use 20 of them in a 3x3 cell area let's say. And considering that you've also made LOD meshes... well, even better.

 

The Skyrim engine can handles this (and more, actually), and textures (and occasionally some scripts) _are_ the usual fps bottleneck much more often than the polycount.

 

bon boulot :smile:

- Celegon / aka Lone Architect on Beyond Skyrim.

 

Though I respect that it's, to a deegree, a subject of personal prefference, when it comes to this. However, it is a waste of polygon. No matter how you want to look at it.

20 x 3k = 60k polygons.

Versus.

20 Polygons.

 

One will hurt the performance, one will not.

 

HOWEVER, it isn't that important when you don't work with a polygon count or really care about optimization. As a study, it's all nice and dandy, or for a picture it's nice. For a Real Time Gameplay, it's not worth it. The Normals map will do it for you, and the only way to tell the different is if the player decides to throw his face at the wall at every possible angle, to see it's fake.

 

Again, it's all good to do. But it does hit performance, and it is a waste. The matter of how much depends how much you do it, but it's there. It's not even a question.

 

Just wanted to throw it out there. Not trying to argue or anything, but I simply can't let the "No performance hit!" or "It's not a waste of polygons!" flow.

[Celegon]

Let's agree to disagree then. :smile:

I've use much more polygons than that for exteriors, and my gameplay didn't suffer, at all.

 

I'm sure that Gauthie has made his own tests, ingame, to check if his fps took a drop or not, with his high-res meshes.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Celegon

[Matth85]

Fair enough.

 

Note: My satement was never that 3k polygons will hit you system. My statement was that 3k, instead of 1, polygon is not worth the little difference in appearance.

That is not an opinion, but a fact. Wether or not you can take the hit, or have spent more polygons, is irrelevant. 3k polygons are 3000 times more than required for that piece. That's a lot.

 

Again, I am not here to tell you what to do, or how to do it. Simply stating what is true.

For a study, or for your own amusement, these kind of things are nothing but cool. You learn, and learn techniques for further down the road.

I merely combat the statement "It doesn't hit the performance!" but saying: "Yes, it does, and I can prove it".

 

Sorry to be cluttering this topic with this.

I'll take my leave, before somebody decides they really want to discuss facts. :)

Matth

[Fistandilius]

Nevermind.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Fistandilius

[Gauthie]

 

Though I respect that it's, to a deegree, a subject of personal prefference, when it comes to this. However, it is a waste of polygon. No matter how you want to look at it.

20 x 3k = 60k polygons.

Versus.

20 Polygons.

 

One will hurt the performance, one will not.

 

HOWEVER, it isn't that important when you don't work with a polygon count or really care about optimization. As a study, it's all nice and dandy, or for a picture it's nice. For a Real Time Gameplay, it's not worth it. The Normals map will do it for you, and the only way to tell the different is if the player decides to throw his face at the wall at every possible angle, to see it's fake.

 

Again, it's all good to do. But it does hit performance, and it is a waste. The matter of how much depends how much you do it, but it's there. It's not even a question.

 

Just wanted to throw it out there. Not trying to argue or anything, but I simply can't let the "No performance hit!" or "It's not a waste of polygons!" flow.

 

 

First, It would be a relevant point if only I pretended that it wouldn't include any performance hit at all compared to a single polygon plane, read me well and you'll actually state that the procedure I mentioned is LOD stages reducing a potential high Performance hit.

 

Secondly, the fact you mention that you respect that it's "to a degree" a personal subject doesn't make your constant considerations less subjective, calling it "waste of polygons" remains an opinion not matter how many times you pretend it to be a mere fact.

 

Thirdly, you're right, it's barely noticeable from fifteen meters, thus the LOD Stage, that's how you simply handle yourself between hardware-related pragmatism and FPS eating details.

 

Finally, your walls will remain flat, mine are sculpted, to each his own, not the place for sterile debates.

 

 

Good job.

 

I don't see any waste of polygons here, though as you said, it's subjective, or "a matter of taste" as they say. In any case, it is not really a matter of performances indeed - not for 3k polygons planes at least, even if you'd use 20 of them in a 3x3 cell area let's say. And considering that you've also made LOD meshes... well, even better.

 

The Skyrim engine can handles this (and more, actually), and textures (and occasionally some scripts) _are_ the usual fps bottleneck much more often than the polycount.

 

bon boulot :smile:

- Celegon / aka Lone Architect on Beyond Skyrim.

 

Thanks for your post, good point on the scripts. I'll try detailing the procedure here later on for anyone wishing to specifically use it.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Gauthie

[FiftyTifty]

The architecture will cause the game to crash and burn if you're running something mid-range like a 6670 or a 7750. Even with the LOD levels, those polygons sure add up. Especially with the terrain being rendered as well as it's LOD at the same time.

 

Another trick is to keep the draw calls down. Skyrim craps out at around 2,500 draw calls, so you'll probably want to merge a bunch of meshes. Singlethreaded renderer and whatnot.

[TheMedievalsKnights]

Hi skoomaboy, I have recently bought some Daz3D http://www.daz3d.com/castle-creator props, and I would like to add tesselation on their textures but I don't know how to do that, could you just give me a link to the tutorial you may have followed or maybe you could explain me via pm ?

Edited November 26, 2013 by TheMedievalsKnights

[snapmoderator]

You'll need to be careful about the source of your assets if you plan on advertising on Nexus, as there is a policy of not discussing or distributing resources without permission. As you've said they are from other games, so would pay to check the permission of the game makers. I only forewarn you as I've been in this boat before.

 

Unfortunately with the detailed mesh walls, they probably won't be lod once you are say within city walls, because of distance. Cities usually being the most cluttered and detailed areas. So performance will be an issue. I've done quite a bit of experimenting with poly counts in cells and certainly there are thresholds that you want to limit yourself to. I did some analysis on Skyrim a while back for a big game mod I'm working on and Riverwood04 has the highest ploy count at 130,000, which doesn't include grass and maybe even trees? (sorry can't remember)

 

The do look good however :)