colourwheel Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) @rizon72 In my opinion, only congress can prevent future abuse by fixing the tax code. If people have been audited for decades on end from lists and then all of a sudden it's considered an outrage or "scandal" of targeting groups from lists for only the last few years, It's only congress that can fix the problem. If you look at the current congressional record, I really don't see anything ever getting fixed to prevent further abuse anytime soon. Edited July 9, 2013 by colourwheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRoaches Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Who, specifically, was abusing the tax code, and in what way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colourwheel Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) @rizon72 Here are some answer for you, if you are still looking for them. This article is one of the best articles I have found in regards to the IRS "scandal" http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/05/13/odonnell-the-real-irs-scandal-happened-in-1959/ If people are looking to put "Blame" on someone or anyone for the so called IRS "Scandal" maybe it should be the Dwight Eisenhower administration. The people working for the IRS are just trying to do their jobs regardless if you believe there is abuse or not. Edited July 9, 2013 by colourwheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRoaches Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 If we are going to look backwards in time for a place to pin the blame for the IRS's recent conduct we may as well go back a bit further to 1939 when Title 26 was codified, or we could go back a bit farther to 1913 when the sixteenth amendment was ratified, or we could even go all the way back to 1862 when the IRS was created. Eisenhower is off the hook. It was Lincoln's fault! But wait, he only did it to pay for the civil war, so......the real blame should fall on Jefferson Davis! Or we could focus on the current events, and the people who are creating them. Here is another article that includes scanned IRS memos that include instructions on how to handle various situations. Included in the memo are mentions of groups that are flagged for the phrase "Tea Party" (instruction: send them up the chain for further review) and "Progressive" (no special instructions). The memo shows a disparity between the procedures for liberal and conservative groups, and in doing so pokes a hole in the argument that the IRS also targeted liberal groups in the same way in that it targeted conservative groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colourwheel Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) OMG! The point I was trying to make was relatively rhetorical when pointing blame. The articles purpose was to help rizon72 understand and illustrate why "Tea party groups" were probably targeted in an unbalanced way over liberal groups with what Troaches would consider "special instructions". After all rizon72 was just wanting some answers. “if in 2010, there was a flood of Tea Party applications for tax exempt status and many fewer applications for tax exempt status from liberal political groups, then it only makes mathematical sense that more questions would be directed at Tea Party applications.” If you feel Jefferson Davis is to ultimately blame that is your opinion, Troaches. Good luck trying to convince people to indite Jefferson Davis. Edited July 9, 2013 by colourwheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRoaches Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) “if in 2010, there was a flood of Tea Party applications for tax exempt status and many fewer applications for tax exempt status from liberal political groups, then it only makes mathematical sense that more questions would be directed at Tea Party applications.”This claim has been proven false. The targeting was not a response to a rise in applications. The increase in application workload occurred from 2011-2012, well after the targeting began. source After all rizon72 was just wanting some answers.The inaccurate article that you linked made no attempt to answer rizon72's question, which was: "I want to know the answer to the question who made that list". If you feel Jefferson Davis is to ultimately blame that is your opinion, Troaches. Good luck trying to convince people to indite Jefferson Davis.I do not. Likewise with Eisenhower. I think the current President, well into his second term, should be held accountable for the current policies of the IRS. Also, you have maintained up until now that the President should not be blamed for what happens at the IRS. Why is Eisenhower different? Why should he be held accountable for the actions of the IRS under his administration, but the current President should not? Edited July 9, 2013 by TRoaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colourwheel Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) “if in 2010, there was a flood of Tea Party applications for tax exempt status and many fewer applications for tax exempt status from liberal political groups, then it only makes mathematical sense that more questions would be directed at Tea Party applications.” This claim has been proven false. The targeting was not a response to a rise in applications. The increase in application workload occurred from 2011-2012, well after the targeting began. source You completely disregard "if" in 2010... Who really care about the exact year when the flood of Tea Party applications for tax exempt status started. If I worked for the IRS then noticed there was a bunch of applications for exempt status from Tea Party groups then a flux of them started after that, I would probably start making a lists, looking for key words, and adding "special instructions" too. The people at the IRS are just doing their jobs and I highly doubt they really care who scrutinizes them because they know no one likes paying taxes. Even if the Inspector General’s audit shows that the selective treatment of groups based on their ties to the tea party movement began before any rise in the IRS workload still doesn't mean that liberal groups were not selectively flagged too. Also to my understanding rizon72 was just wanting answers in general. I was never attempting to specifically answer a question on "who made the lists". I guess I can make an educated guess that would probably make you happy though.... Just blame the Muslim dictator born in Kenya!!! /sarcasm ;D Edited July 9, 2013 by colourwheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRoaches Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 You completely disregard "if" in 2010... You completely disregard that "if" is a speculatory statement about something that is not up for speculation. If there had been an increase in applications for tea party groups then perhaps the argument would be valid, but such an increase has been proven not to have occurred. Who really care about the exact year when the flood of Tea Party applications for tax exempt status started. Only the people who want to understand what happened, and why. If I worked for the IRS then noticed there was a bunch of applications for exempt status from Tea Party groups then a flux of them started after that, I would probably start making a lists, looking for key words, and adding "special instructions" too. Again, if that had actually happened then it would be relevant, but it has been proven that this did not occur. Even if the Inspector General’s audit shows that the selective treatment of groups based on their ties to the tea party movement began before any rise in the IRS workload still doesn't mean that liberal groups were not selectively flagged too. If the IG's audit shows that liberal groups were not selectively flagged then....it shows that liberal groups were not selectively flagged, which indicates political bias in the IRS procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colourwheel Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) If the IG's audit shows that liberal groups were not selectively flagged then....it shows that liberal groups were not selectively flagged, which indicates political bias in the IRS procedure. Are you forgetting that a substantial amount of political groups filed for applications for tax exempt status? 1,751 to be exact in 2009. A huge majority of them were Tea party groups that kept on growing over the past few years. Maybe the reason why tea party groups were flagged 1st was because of the overwhelming amount of them were trying to dodge from paying taxes even in 2009... Maybe it would be best to let other comment on this topic to decide for themselves. It is obvious you want the Obama administration to be blamed. Edited July 9, 2013 by colourwheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRoaches Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 A huge majority of them were Tea party groups that kept on growing over the past few years. Maybe the reason why tea party groups were flagged 1st was because of the overwhelming amount of them were trying to dodge from paying taxes even in 2009...Can you cite a source to back either of these claims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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